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Seeking input on kitchen lay-out :-)

newenglandsara2

10 years ago

Hi All,

We are expanding and renovating our kitchen/family room space, and we need to decide on the kitchen lay-out within this week! I will post photos of two options below, and I would love some input. The main challenge is that we want to fit a dining table in the kitchen space, but we don't want to sacrifice TOO much counter space (and we would still like to have some semblance of an island.) The dining space can't go into our family room space since we have a lot of furniture to fit in there.

OPTION 1: I really like the idea of a banquette and table near the windows, but it means less counter space than Option 2 and also a bathroom without a window. I welcome other ideas.

OPTION 2: We get more counter space and a window in our bathroom in this scenario, but the banquette ends up pressed against the island. I am worried that this might feel awkward and that the eating would be right in the center of prep space/away from the windows.

i welcome any thoughts on how we might keep the eating separate from the island while still maintaining enough counter space. We don't want to go with only island seating since the high stools would be hard for our young kids (and my husband has knee issues.)

I will post images of the two scenarios. The first image is of the banquette near the window. I might need to post the second image in a follow-up.

Thanks in advance!

Sara

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Comments (11)

newenglandsara2
Original Author
10 years ago
And here is a photo of option two with the banquette seating up against the island.

Thanks!

Sara
sjhockeyfan325
10 years ago
How many people do you need to seat (regularly) in the kitchen? Is that where you will eat your daily meals?

Am I reading it right (its hard to see) that in Option 1 the aisle between the island and the banquette table is 42"? That's barely big enough for an aisle without chairs - it is definitely "impossible" with chairs.
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Note: Your labeled measurements and your graph paper boxes don't always add up -- plus in some cases the wall thicknesses are not accounted for (at least not from what I can tell). I'm concerned that you may not be able to really fit an island and still have decent aisles around that island - especially b/c you are a family of 4, including two young children. You may be a one-person Kitchen now, but as soon as you begin teaching your children to cook and cleanup -- necessary life skills for girls and boys -- you will become a 2- or 3-cook family. That time is rapidly approaching -- children grow up very, very quickly! So, design a Kitchen that can accommodate multiple cooks, not one cook! You're spending all this money on a remodel, why design a Kitchen that will only work for a couple more years? Design it for the near future when one or two of your children will be working with you. ++++++++++++++++++++ As an example of one of my concerns: The 42-inch aisle appears to be measured cabinet-to-cabinet, which is incorrect. Aisles are measured to/from the items that stick out into the aisle the farthest -- counter overhangs, appliance handles, etc. The 24-inch depth of base cabinets only includes the cabinet box, not the doors/drawer fronts or the 1.5" counter overhang. With the exception of inset cabinets, doors/drawer fronts extend ~1" beyond the cabinet boxes. The counter overhang extends 1.5" beyond the cabinet boxes That means that aisle is at least 3" narrower -- 39", not 42". 39" is too narrow. At the very least, the 1.5" overhang over the front of cabinets needs to be factored in to the aisle width -- so, 1.5" x 2 = 3" and 42" - 3" = 39" Aisle Widths - Minimums: 42-inch aisles are the minimum recommended aisles for a one-person work aisle. 48-inch aisles are the minimum recommended aisles for two or more people working on the aisle Island with seating - Minimums: Each seat needs a minimum of 24" of linear space 15" is the minimum recommended overhang for a counter-height island (or peninsula) -- 15" of clear leg/knee space with no obstruction (i.e., after accounting for the cabinets and any decorative door or finished end panel on the back of those cabinets = ~1") So, minimum island dept = 41.5" deep 1.5" counter overhang in the front + 24" deep cabinets + 1" decorative door/finished end panel + 15" overhang ================ 41.5" ++++++++++++++++++++ I'm not saying an island won't fit, but I think you need to be very, very sure it does b/f you commit to the layout. If it were me, I'd re-measure everything and re-draw it up on graph paper, including the thicknesses of the walls -- just to be sure I had all the measurements correct. Good luck!
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My wife normally does most of the cooking for our family but has friends who also enjoy cooking and will help out when over, so up to 3 people working in the kitchen at a time. Breakfast and lunch will likely be at island (we figured we could seat up to four there (three at outside edge and one just around the corner across from the entry to the pantry) dinner will be at the dining table which is just out of shot in the drawing but part of an open concept layout. In terms of types of cooking... a bit of everything really, stirfries, braises, roasts. She only bakes occasionally but has been known to make macarons, meringues, and other types of treats for teachers gifts/ parties, etc. (hence the preference for electric oven). We would go with a dual fuel range but that isn't a possibility with the BlueStar. We usually don't entertain large groups probably up to 12 at a time. We have a desk drawn in but during our site visit today we realized it's sort of puny and the kids will likely prefer to pull up to the island for homework rather than staring at the wall so we thought we would turn that area into a concealed storage for phone, mail, stationery, etc. In terms of the refrigeration, we figured a 36" fridge and 30" freezer would be adequate based on what we are currently using.... although feedback is helpful here as kids are still small. We do have a secondary fridge & deep freeze currently which could reside in the garage but we've also considered ditching those for a secondary fridge in the pantry just to keep the groceries central to the kitchen. My wife is the only coffee drinker in the house and we currently have a very compact Nespresso machine which serves the purpose, I don't think we need a dedicated breakfast bar/ coffee bar area. In terms of the range hood, there is a second floor but we've allocated space for the ventilation to pass through (behind a closet) to the roof with hopes of mounting the fan remotely to reduce noise. Thank you for the thorough questions!
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lisa_a
10 years ago
Funny how you feel that the banquette in Option 2 feels squished. That was my reaction to the banquette in Option 1.

Here are images of banquettes up against islands (ignore the bad cook top placement in the 1st image):

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Little Rock Interior Designers & Decorators Tobi Fairley Interior Design

[Eclectic Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/eclectic-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2104) by Morristown Interior Designers & Decorators Marlene Wangenheim AKBD, CAPS, Allied Member ASID

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Suffolk Kitchen & Bath Designers Amy Birdsong

[Mediterranean Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/mediterranean-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2109) by Saint Helena General Contractors Centric General Contractors

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Atlanta Interior Designers & Decorators Insidesign

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Birmingham Interior Designers & Decorators Jane Spencer Designs

[Traditional Kitchen[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Bellaire Design-Build Firms Hann Builders
newenglandsara2
Original Author
10 years ago
Thanks for the input so far!

SJHockeyFan, it looks as if the aisle is 41 inches: it's helpful to hear that it isn't enough space for a chair! (I think this was a quick draft as we were trying to think of scenarios.) To answer your question, there are five of us in the house, but we do have friends over fairly often. Our dining room is a bit formal and set apart, so one nice aspect of having a banquette separate from the island would be having seating in two places within the kitchen: island and banquette.

Lisa, thanks for the wonderful photos! I especially like photo 1. The banquettes in these photos look great, but I worry that the reality of ours will be a super-messy island overhanging our kitchen table. :-)

If any alternatives to Option 1 and Option 2 pop to mind, don't hesitate to share further ideas.

Thanks again!

Sara
debrak2008
10 years ago
How often do you eat in the dining room? Nightly for dinner? Rarely?

When and how often will eating take place in the kitchen? How many will be present at the same time?

Can you post a close up layout of the kitchen with counter to counter edge measurements?

Sorry so many questions, no answers right now.
newenglandsara2
Original Author
10 years ago
Debra, thanks for your interest in helping! The dining room will be reserved for more formal gatherings, so we will be eating in the kitchen the vast majority of the time. My husband and I have three kids, so the usual number is five of us. However, our kids often have friends or we host another family. At these times, we can often extend to anywhere from 6-10 people.

I looked at the drawings, and there aren't many exact measurements yet. I can see that the kitchen space is about 16' 10" wide. The measurement from the back kitchen windows to the bathroom wall of the kitchen (near the dining room) looks to be about 16'. I hope this is a bit helpful.

If we keep the banquette near the window, I was thinking that maybe we can change it to one bench along the wall and a table with open sides. I was also thinking that maybe we could move the fridge to the wall near the bathroom (and move the bathroom in again to include a window) to free up more counter space near the sink and range.

Again, I am completely open to other ideas! :-)

Sara
debrak2008
10 years ago
You might not like these suggestions. Why not use the dining room for at least dinners? You will have more room to spread out and eat comfortably. A thread recently on the decor forum had the Poster redecorate her dining room so that now the whole family likes to eat there. This a low cost option to use the space you already have. Then eating in the kitchen could be use for quick meals when being squished is not such a big deal.

Why do you have to decide this week? Not a good idea to rush into big expensive decisions. Is the contractor rushing you? Remember you are in charge.

To me the size of your kitchen would give you a great functional work space with some limited informal eating space.

See I told you, you wouldn't like it ; )
sena01
10 years ago
I think the second alterative has more potential.

Do you have to keep the wall b/w the kitchen and the FR on the right corner. If not, I'd get rid of the cabs there, extend the sink counter all the way to the FR. and move the island a little to the right. Then I'd live with it for a while without a banquet. Maybe keeping the table perpendicular to the island turn out to be more comfortable, and can give you more flexibility.

Btw if you move the DW to the other side of the sink, two can prep in the kitchen w/o having DW in the way.
newenglandsara2
Original Author
10 years ago
Debra, I appreciate your honest ideas! :-) The reason for the "rush" is that we are recently bought this house and can't move in until a major renovation is complete. We are juggling two house payments and don't want to do that for long! Your idea about the dining room is interesting. The challenge is that we have an entire formal dining room set from various relatives, and our kids would ruin the furniture if we eat in there on a regular basis. I also love eating in an open family room/kitchen space so that I can prep food or do dishes and still be in the room with my kids while they eat lunch, etc. The placement of the bathroom won't allow us to really open up the kitchen to the dining room. If you had to add a decent eating space in the kitchen, where would you put it?

Sena01, I appreciate your input. The wall between the kitchen and FR doesn't need to be there; I think it's just there as a low wall to support the banquette. The only tricky part with extending into the FR is that we will have our sectional right there facing the wall near the porch. Great point on the DW!

Nothing is simple, right? :-)

Thanks again!

Sara
chispa
10 years ago
If you add a door between family room and living room, make it a double pocket door. This way you can completely open the space or close it up. Much nicer than a regular single swing door.
newenglandsara2
Original Author
10 years ago
Chispa, your idea about a door between the family room and living room is a good one! We would love a double door, but we need to put a piano there since it is our only main inside wall. I will need to look at dimensions.

Thanks!

Sara

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