David, Ahh, I think I now understand that you were not trying to distinguish between DWV fittings and standard fittings, but rather between normal DWV fittings and long-sweep (or long-turn) DWV fittings. Is that right? If so, you may ignore my previous post. Your post threw me, as I would not have referred to standard DWV fittings as "small radius"; that term connotes standard supply fittings to me.

As Sircuts@freeshell.org has already pointed out, I too can think of dozens of reasons why bending copper pipe is not a good solution. It has been mentioned that the inner wall friction of a bend is less than a fitting, which is true of factory made long radius bends where the pipe is bent in specially designed jigs prior to the tempering process but such is not the case when field bending copper. First of all it should be thoroughly understood that no bend in copper pipe should have a radius less than 10 times the pipe diameter. (Many local codes limit bends to a minimum radius of 20 x pipe diameter). When pipe is bent in the field two conditions happen that ultimately weaken the pipe. On the inside of the radius the pipe is compressed resulting in crosswise ridges similar to those on a corrugated pipe. (I appologize in advance if my description offends anyones sensibilities) When a pipe is field bent the outer curve of the radius is stretched leaving microscopic stretch marks similar to those seen on a womans stomach after a tough pregnancy. This also results in seriously weaking the pipe wall. We are then confronted with an increase in turbulance from the inner ridges reacting against the weakened outer wall and the end result is premature pipe wall erosion thus while a factory formed long radius bend will reduce line friction a field bend actually has much more friction problems than what would be seen with a fitting. While bending pipe may appear like a simple task ask any electrician who runs EMT and they will tell you first hand that bending pipe is not nearly as easy as it might look. There is a small loss of linear footage when forming a bend and when making back to back bends on the same piece of pipe it can be rather tricky to compute the necessary lenths to compensate. Obviously the interest expressed in bending copper pipe is a result of the reluctance on the part of homeowners or DIY'ers to solder but I am sure that Sircuts and Brickeye will agree with me that in the hands of an experienced plumber soldering joints can be made much quicker than figuring out the layout of bending pipe for a tight application. In fact, with a bit of practice you will find that soldering is easy and nearly as fast as fitting and glueing CPVC or PVC pipe. To answer Shw001's question, if you are working in a really tight location it is doubtful that you will have the necessary clearances to get the minimal radius for your bends. Although I would certainly explore all the other options first, understanding that you only need a short two foot section you might find it much easier to use a corrugated copper flexible water heater connector to go around the obstruction however this should only be done providing the work will be in a non-concealed location.

melissastar, you need to distinguish where the bends are. 1. in the vertical part of your whole drain system. 2. in the horizontal part. 3. in the horizontal part that is defined as "trap arm" which is between the washer standpipe's P-trap and the place where venting is first connected. This might only be a couple inches long, but it is a different segment with its own rules. Sometimes people try to route this pipe around obstacles. Is this your case? Three different kinds of constraints. I'm assuming you have a standpipe. I read this about 90 degree bends: "There are three in short order as the pipe comes up from the basement to the first floor" so I'll guess you were referring to the vertical part. Is this the correct reading? I'm not a plumber, not a plumbing inspector, and not a plumbing instructor. Nor do I act as one on the internet or on TV shows. Hope this helps.

geoffrey, YOU brought up the 95/5, not me... I have no idea what the installer will use, but I'm not sure how me doing research on items you suggest translates to me being a micro-manager (it's me reducing my ignorance of a particular product or method). I'm researching possible directions so that I may make a more informed decision rather than barraging the installer with impossible/impractical requests. But if you feel answering such questions is a waste of your energy, you're certainly free to ignore them. Vith, The issue with a tubing bender is it requires room for the length of tubing beyond the bends... in my case, it follows 40' down a set of I-beams, hooks behind an immovable object (think of it as a box I have to thread through, then juts out another 4-5'. If the line was completely flexible, I could push it past the obstacles and be done... but once you make a bend, you're set with the length of tube beyond that bend (hopefully that makes sense). My thinking was soldered/brazed connectors or simply swaging the tube in a couple of strategic places around the obstacle, allowing for 2-3 separate pieces to be used rather than trying to bend a single tube in an impossible manner. BTW, had a guy out here to discuss the plan. He said what I had in mind was not a problem. The furnace is moving closer, so he'll just trim back the line length, and since it's already cut, add in a few tight bends and cut/swage if/where necessary. The heat pump is moving farther away, so it will require a new pipe... same situation, just with a new pipe. He's also going to do a simple cut/reroute in a similar manner for the third heat pump. Nutshell, I get what I was hoping for,and it will significantly clean up the space so I may continue my framing. Thanks for everyone's comments/help.