FDLS Case in Texas

18 years ago

It's important to remember that prosecutors in the FDLS case do not know the legal identities of either the self-declared parents or the children. TX prosecutors and CPS may have birth certificates and similar documents for the children, but they have no way of telling if these are conterfeit or based on false statesments by the adults in the group until they conduct an exhaustive verification process, including DNA matching.

Furthermore, there are other FDLS groups living in Canada, various other US states and countries (notably, nearby Mexico.) Any adult or child involved in this truly horrible case may be a citizen of a foreign country and/or a member of another FDLS group or FDLS sympathizer. Children and wives can be transferred at the discretion of FDLS leaders to any man deemed more suitable, and taken away from fathers who fall into disfavor.

The purpose of creating a world kept isolated from the rest of society is to make it possible to conceal and escape from the consequences of serious crimes such as incest, rape, and other forms of spousal/child abuse. This is not a matter of mothers and fathers suffering as martyrs in the cause of religious belief. It is a matter of people who thought they had escaped from the laws and general morality of the rest of society pursuing private pleasures as they wished.

All of this may sound terribly cold-blooded and legalistic. But, don't forget that every single person involved has different rights, has different circumstances,and just as some may be innocent, others may accomplices in terrible crimes. All need legal representation and a fair hearing in this matter.

Anyone who has ever been sexually abused by a family member or a friend of a family member,and said nothing, can understand this situation. The children in this case cannot escape the results of their parents and caretakers actions. We are left to decide what is worse: Children being compelled to become mothers when they themselves are still children; boys being thrown out of their homes as soon as they can compete with adult men for young womens' favor; or children compelled by love to protect those who abuse them.

Think about it.

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Comments (9)

dotmom
18 years ago
I want all of these people, women, childrem and even the men to have legal councel. I don't want any shyster lawyer to be able to came back with some so called loop hole or other to get these guys off when I hope, they are found to be perverts and child molesters. Part of me feel sorry for these mothers because they have not known any other kind of life, but then I wonder just when does the motherly instincts kick in when you see some so-called father abusing your child. This whole thing, with these cults sickens me and it is frightening to know there are many other groups of them all over. Dottie
linda_in_iowa
18 years ago
The correct name of the sect if FLDS. It stands for Fundamentalist Latter Day Saints.
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I think when you've got several very young girls (12-17) who are pregnant or who already have children/babies that's proof of abuse. And where are the boys? They've been thrown out on the side of the road on their own so that the older "men" can have the girls for their own. This is a CULT (Warren Jeffs) and these women and their children have been brainwashed. It does look sad to see them on TV but they are willing and think that it is God's will that their daughters be given to these men and and their sons be thrown out on the streets. "Up to 1,000 teenage boys have been separated from their parents and thrown out of their communities by a polygamous sect to make more young women available for older men, Utah officials claim. Many of these "Lost Boys", some as young as 13, have simply been dumped on the side of the road in Arizona and Utah, by the leaders of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS), and told they will never see their families again or go to heaven." By kicking out the boys. The FLDS doesn't practice sex-selective abortion, nor does it recruit from outside the ranks. To reduce competition for wives, the church systematically expels adolescent boys, thus trimming the eligible male population. It's estimated that the FLDS has thrown out between 400 and 1,400 male members in the last decade. Church elders excommunicate boys as young as 14 ostensibly for bad behaviorÂlike flirting with girls, watching a movie, listening to rock music, drinking, playing basketball, or wearing short-sleeve shirts. Sometimes called the "Lost Boys," they're considered apostates and cut off entirely from their relatives. Parents or siblings who protest are sometimes asked to pack their bags as well. Girls have also been cast out of the church, but this happens much less often. Usually this punishment is reserved for women who don't wish to be part of a polygamous marriage. The sect also expels married men who violate religious tenets. After the wrongdoer leaves, the church leader reassigns his wives to loyalists. In theory, those who repent in earnest can be reunited with their families. In practice, almost no one is allowed back. I've seen stories on TV of these "Lost Boys" and Google Lost Boys and there are several links. What kind of father could do this to his sons? These men believe they sill be the god of their own planet so they must have several wives and many children to populate their own planet. The men abuse their wives and do leave bruises and abuse the children to keep the wives in line This is not happening just in Texas. Here is a link that might be useful: The Lost Boys
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Sick, ain't it. It always amazes me how people use their faith in God and religion to justify rotten actions. You were raised to KNOW what is truly right and wrong Gayle. At one time I believe the men did know right from wrong but have twisted it all around, using God as an excuse, to suit their purposes. A girl gave birth yesterday but won't verify her age. She is listed as being fifteen but now she's insisting she's 18. Shortly after the children were removed and some women went with them the authorities had to confiscate all cell phones. Apparently the big brave menfolk of the FLDS were organizing the women from the safety of the complex. Lori
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LorifromUtah
18 years ago
I did not hear it but Hubby said he'd heard because of the inbreeding, the DNA test results can be muddy and inaccurate.
Is this true?

The whole thing makes me sick.
It is so wrong and perverted.
Then you have the 'other side' of the press who report taking women and children out of this 'element' will harm them?
Good grief.
Those poor children are emotionally maimed for life.
HOW can removing them from a harmful environment hurt them anymore?

Seizing the cult's assets is a good way to strip the men of power.
Neutering all who chose to stay in the cult (I refuse to call it a religion) is another good option, I think.

Lori, who has usual, has a strong opinion
jaybird
18 years ago
Lori, we also heard that the DNA tests may be inaccurate...
They contacted a couple of our attorneys to go to San Angelo, but our lead attorney said no way....at first I wondered about that decision, but the farther they get into this the more thankful I am that none of our folks are there. Granny here, would worry!!!
I also say Amen to the neutering and freezing of assets!!
We have one of these cult organizations (not the famous one and not one that has multiple wives) here in our area. I always feel so sorry for the munchkins!!!! As far as I am concerned, the women are old enough to get themselves out, so if they choose to stay....so be it. But the poor little ones don't have a choice and are never educated enough to be anywhere else....so very sad...
sayhellonow
18 years ago
I feel sorry for the children and their mothers.

Personally, I don't give a hoot about who lives with who or how many "spiritual" wives these guys choose, or whether or not the women choose to stay with them AS LONG AS THE CHILDREN ARE NOT TAUGHT AND FORCED to do the same. But I do oppose separating the children from their mothers - especially the little ones who have no clue about what's going on. I think the mothers and children should stay together somewhere, removed from the compound, while the men-creeps suffer for their sexual greediness.
dotmom
18 years ago
I wouldn't have any trouble if this was all between consenting adults and they were self supporting. Not getting welfare or as they call it Bleeding the Beast. Dottie
LorifromUtah
18 years ago
Rulon Jeff's niece was on Dr Phil yesterday.
Rulon was an FLDS prophet (their words, not mine) for his entire life and more abusive man you'll never know. He is Warren Jeff's father. (On the side, and the woman on Dr Phil confirmed this, Warren Jeff's sisters were known to be vicious and abusive mothers, disciplining their children with beatings and emotional abuse as well.)

Her mother (Jeff's sister, bred, born and raised in polygamy) took her children and ran many years ago.

The niece was able to talk to her aunts, cousins, sisters, etc, still at the Texas compound. All of the women she talked to cried and pleaded to have their children returned to them.

All I could think, while watching,was, 'if you are so goldarned worried about you kids and fear they are being mistreated why don't you GO TO THEM?!'

I know they taught to be submissive.
I know abuse is all they know.
I know they believe how they live is righteous.
But how can they stay behind and not go to their children?
I am only guessing, but I think they don't go because the men in the compound (funny, we don't see any of THEM on tv, do we?) have told them they will go to hell if they left.

In spite of this, their tears, to me, anyway, are crocodile.
The only thing keeping them from their children is themselves. I feel no pity for them. The door is open. They can join their children at any time. They portray strong maternal instincts but they only cry for 'someone' to bring them back.

This reminds me of the hypothetical question that surfaces on chat boards occasionally: You, your husband and your small child on on a sinking boat. You can only save one person. Who would you save?

Well, the child, of course.
My husband is full grown man.
He can take care of himself.
The child cannot.

There's lots I don't understand in their world.
Human behavior is only one.
I cannot, however, understand women who would let their little children out of their site then stand there, wringing their hands and crying for someone to bring them back.

These women are as guilty of abuse as the men of the FLDS.

Lori
grammahony
18 years ago
Lori, I watched Dr. Phil yesterday too. I agree 100% with what your saying. I didn't believe their tears. They're not emotional at all.
Leslie
deamn
18 years ago
I watched a news show last night who said that the men and women may be fleeing and leaving the children behind. Also said that everytime there is an episode such as this, it drives these people farther underground. Can't always believe the media, but it also showed kids on the bus as they were being transported to the foster homes and the kids were waving at the cameras. Makes ya wonder!!

FDLS Case in Texas

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dotmom

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