What a mixed up mess this has got to be. One the one hand, I sympathize with the mothers in wanting their children back. Yet on the other hand, this is all about protecting those children. I was watching CNN last night about this and they were interviewing someone who was once part of a sect such as this and she said that these women have been scripted by the leaders as to what to say. She also said that when these women were asked a question that they didn't know how to answer, she could see terror in their faces because if they were to give the wrong answer, they could suffer physical and mental abuse because of it.

What a life to live. Although I have to admit, this is interesting to say the least.

I bet I read a book by that woman, DeaMN.

It was sort of scary.

I watched Larry King on CNN and then Nancy Grace. Very Interesting indeed. The one Lady knew the FDLS Women Interviewed.

These Women look and act like Zombies.

Gayle

It's just such a horrid mess. So many children, and how terrified they must be. I saw the women speak, all dressed alike with such unattractive hair styles. They just seem so supressed with little, soft high voices, almost numb. Probably haven't been allowed an original or creative thought in their lives. And where are the men????

I just think there must have been a better way to handle this. They cannot possibly remove all those children from their mothers forever, so why put them through the trauma of a temporary removal? It's just an ugly MESS!

The word "Stepford Wives" comes to mind. I really feel horrible for the mothers, they may never see their children again. Although in my heart of hearts, I think once this all comes out, they will have determined the men were the mastermind behind all this, and the women can once again have their kids back. it may take a long time, but, this has to be stopped now! 13-17 year olds pregnant by 30+ year old men. Sick and sad. I'm glad this was busted up, but it is going to be a long long road for these families.

Trin

There's a news story about the Texas rangers arresting a woman for false reporting of the abuse in the FDLS compound. There has been no direct evidence of abuse here. Lots of hearsay from people who have been in this religious group before. Lots of "news" persons who are reporting on this in such a dramatic way that has turned it into a circus. It doesn't matter what they look like or talk like. None of that has anything to do with the case.
The problem with this going on is - who will be next? Which religious denomination will be raided just because someone said there was abuse or whatever? This is still America & we still have the constitution that protects our rights.
Did you see the machine guns, snipers & armored vehicles that the cops used to make this raid? Over reaction?!

Sad!

I have a hard time feeling sorry for any of them except for the children who are born into this lifestyle and are abused. I just don't understand their way of thinking. Many people say the women are born into this and raised this way all their life. Well, the men were born into this also. Granted very few men get to stay as they thin the male population down by getting rid of the males when they are young. So just how do they decide who goes and who gets to stay? I mean those old men have to be replaced sometime right. What does that say about these sniveling women now crying about their children when they kick their young sons out of the group at a young age? I'm sure it is the old men behind it, but they go along with it. I still wonder how they kept the young males they kicked out from spilling the beans about what was going on inside the compound.

Eldorado is not too far from where I live. Less than 200 miles away and it is not a big town at all. I heard that all the materials used to build the compound was brought in in the middle of the night so as to keep a low profile about what they were doing.

Tne news media is saying that some of the underage girls are pregnant. If this is true, then there is no doubt abuse being carried out inside the compound. I think the mothers are just as guilty as the men for condoning the behavior.

Noocha I don't think it was an over reaction for law enforcement to come prepared with armored cars, machine guns, snipers, ect. I think these people are nut cases. Do you remember Waco?

If the men go to jail and the women and children are thrown into regular society, I think they will have a very difficult time ahead of them. Looks like it will be one huge welfare case.

I thought polygamy was against the laws of our country following "prophets" or not.

I'm against any man trotting from bed to bed making babies that we, the taxpayers, are paying to feed and cloth. These women, except the ONE legally married to a guy, all collect welfare for the kids.

All cults use brainwashing & fear to rule- this particular one has been ignored, and so manages it from cradle to grave.

Just MO, Suzi

I'm against any man trotting from bed to bed making babies that we, the taxpayers, are paying to feed and cloth. These women, except the ONE legally married to a guy, all collect welfare for the kids.

And this is different HOW from the run-of-the-mill lazy, slutty women who are on welfare out here in the 'real' world?

Noocha I don't think it was an over reaction for law enforcement to come prepared with armored cars, machine guns, snipers, ect. I think these people are nut cases. Do you remember Waco?

I DO remember Waco. But I don't think we know the whole story on that either.

Yes, there probably is abuse here but 416 children taken away from their parents? When they still don't have any documented evidence of any kind of abuse? How can they take every last child? Just because they don't like their religion?

And now they're finding out that someone from Colorado made the call, pretending to be the 16 year old girl? Haven't you learned yet that the media is biased? And everything they tell you isn't true?

"The children were seized this month in a raid on the desert compound because of evidence of physical and sexual abuse, including the forcing of underage girls into marriage and childbearing."

Anyway you look at it,that is abuse and apparently they do have evidence.

Do they have situations where one woman has a dozen or so husbands?

Tit for tat sounds sort of fair.

ole joyful

noocha, I don't know where you came from, or how long you've been posting, but I don't remember you posting here before. I think your nothing but a pot stirring troll.
I think your just stupid to catagorize all women on welfare as run-of-the-mill slutty women. Who made you judge and jury??? Some are in a situation where they're trying to better themselves so they can get a better job, and support their own kids, and get off the temporary welfare. They don't want a HAND OUT, they want a HAND UP.
Leslie

I have to somewhat agree that the media is somewhat biased and we will never know all that there is to know. Yet this is such a huge news story, with so many involved and so many twists and turns, that I don't know if the media even knows what to focus on first.
Yet it's also true about the many teen pregnancies that are in the real world. Many of them are blown off. I have a step-daughter who had a baby at 16 and the guy was of legal age. So, I think there could be a double standard being played out here.
Then again, this isn't just about sexual abuse, although that seems to be what the media is focusing on. There is also physical abuse and the controlling that is being touched upon. Not only for the children but for the mother's as well. While I agree that the mom's are just as guilty as the men to allow the abuse to continue, I doubt very much if they knew right from wrong..to them it was normal. We have to keep in mind that the children and the women have been brainwashed.

I have to wonder as this gets a little more involved if there is going to be bigger things to come out of this. These men are not stupid and have for years been outsmarting everyone.

The Children that are in custody, haven't legally been taken away "permanently" from their Mothers. The children or so "brainwashed" that they don't even know who their Mothers are. It is a huge cover up to protect the Men who have Fathered Babies with a Child Bride. All have to have a Paternal/Maternal Test.

These people wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face.

Noocha, you haven't been listening to the news with Women who have "lived" with these people. You need to hear the horror stories these Women have lived. It isn't "hearsay" at all. It is fact.

I'd much rather the CPS investigate rather than "believe" these Mothers. I couldn't live with myself if I knew for sure a child had to endure this tortured life and I "knew" it.

Gayle

So much of this situation is so very sad. Many of these children do not even know who their 'real' mother is. The only way to pair them up with their parents is through DNA. As others said, WHERE ARE THE MEN??? I haven't seen any of them interviewed. Just the (looks like) semi-comatose women.

Noocha...Yes there are some women "out there" taking advantage of welfare, there are also some trying to get their lives on track or because of situations beyond their control, can not work. Please don't lump all people getting welfare into pile.

BIG difference,HUGE actually. These girls are expected to go on welfare to bleed the beast and were married without any notice at 13 and 14 to 50 year old (and older) men.
To classify all welfare mothers in general as lazy and slutty is ridiculous.
Another BIG difference is they live in a gated/guarded compound and can not leave, and would actively be sought by police who are also FDLS and returned if they did get away.
This is not a religious issue, it is abuse and enslavement.

I read the book "Escape" by Carolyn Jessop. If you want a peek into the life of one of the wives' in this sect, read this book. I could hardly put the book down. They are very abusive to their wives and to their children. They will take a baby and pour water on its face until the baby stops crying. This is to start to indoctrinate them at an early age. The wives will back stab each other to gain glory with the husband. What a terrible way to live.

BTW! The "Fence" on the Compound has the spikes pointed toward the compound to keep people "in", not "out". That should tell you something right there.

Gayle

I think Nooch meant that this might compare to the same situation with women who have kids with no intention of getting off welfare. They don't aspire to have a better life, just have more kids to collect more checks from the government. Even though I don't agree with everything she says, I don't think she was lumping ALL welfare recipients into the same pile.

Now Noocha also said, "Yes, there probably is abuse here but 416 children taken away from their parents? When they still don't have any documented evidence of any kind of abuse? How can they take every last child? Just because they don't like their religion? "

The authourities have said that several of the underage girls were pregnant. Some as young as the age of 12. Some had already had several kids. Now these people lived in the same house if you will since they lived in the compound with basically no contact with the outside world. Now you have very underage girls being sexually contacted. The FDLS may not call that abuse, but it is still illegal in the state of Texas. They were all in the same "house" and the mothers were not doing anything about it. So yes, I think it is prudent to temporarily take these kids away from their parents until it can be decided what the outcome will be. Authorities probably fear the kids might receive further punishment from the men for speaking with authorities and ratting on them.

We will see what today brings.

CB

Thanks CB. I wasn't talking about all the women out here in the real world being lazy & slutty. But surely you know that the welfare rolls are growing every day? Did you see the stats that came out a couple weeks ago? I don't remember the exact numbers but it's a record number of people on welfare/getting food stamps. I didn't "lump" them all in the same pile.

noocha, I don't know where you came from, or how long you've been posting, but I don't remember you posting here before. I think your nothing but a pot stirring troll.
I think your just stupid to catagorize all women on welfare as run-of-the-mill slutty women. Who made you judge and jury??? Some are in a situation where they're trying to better themselves so they can get a better job, and support their own kids, and get off the temporary welfare. They don't want a HAND OUT, they want a HAND UP.
Leslie

A little testy there eh? I have every right to post anywhere on any of these GardenWeb forums cause I'm a member too. Just cause you don't like my opinion... well, get over it. Anyone who disagrees with you is just stupid? And a troll? Name calling & intolerance is running rampant here today.

What I'm saying is there's lots of people writing books & giving interviews about their experience with this group or that group. But that doesn't mean EVERY ONE of these groups are like that. Now who is lumping whom all together?

As far as people wanting a hand up not a hand out - that's true for some. But there's generations of families living on welfare out here. I just don't see why there should be an outcry against these folks in Texas & not the dead beat lazy people out here doing the same exact thing. Having loads of babies & letting us pay for them.

you are either for abuse or against it....

Where are the men? There aren't that many of them. You forget that they kick the male teens out of the community so that the older men can have their several wives. If they let the sons stay as adults, there wouldn't be enough "wives" for these men to take to satisfy their lust. No family or community concern for these banished boys who now must make it on their own somehow.

The "water torture" of infants is just too much. The mothers do it to break their spirit. That is child abuse absolutely.

I'm starting to think the men should've been the first ones arrested and taken from the 'compound'.

I think when you've got several very young girls (12-17) who are pregnant or who already have children/babies that's proof of abuse. And where are the boys? They've been thrown out on the side of the road on their own so that the older "men" can have the girls for their own.

This is a CULT (Warren Jeffs) and these women and their children have been brainwashed. It does look sad to see them on TV but they are willing and think that it is God's will that their daughters be given to these men and and their sons be thrown out on the streets. "Up to 1,000 teenage boys have been separated from their parents and thrown out of their communities by a polygamous sect to make more young women available for older men, Utah officials claim.

Many of these "Lost Boys", some as young as 13, have simply been dumped on the side of the road in Arizona and Utah, by the leaders of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (FLDS), and told they will never see their families again or go to heaven."

By kicking out the boys. The FLDS doesn't practice sex-selective abortion, nor does it recruit from outside the ranks. To reduce competition for wives, the church systematically expels adolescent boys, thus trimming the eligible male population. It's estimated that the FLDS has thrown out between 400 and 1,400 male members in the last decade.

Church elders excommunicate boys as young as 14 ostensibly for bad behaviorÂlike flirting with girls, watching a movie, listening to rock music, drinking, playing basketball, or wearing short-sleeve shirts. Sometimes called the "Lost Boys," they're considered apostates and cut off entirely from their relatives. Parents or siblings who protest are sometimes asked to pack their bags as well. Girls have also been cast out of the church, but this happens much less often. Usually this punishment is reserved for women who don't wish to be part of a polygamous marriage.

The sect also expels married men who violate religious tenets. After the wrongdoer leaves, the church leader reassigns his wives to loyalists. In theory, those who repent in earnest can be reunited with their families. In practice, almost no one is allowed back.

I've seen stories on TV of these "Lost Boys" and Google Lost Boys and there are several links. What kind of father could do this to his sons?

These men believe they sill be the god of their own planet so they must have several wives and many children to populate their own planet.

The men abuse their wives and do leave bruises and abuse the children to keep the wives in line

This is not happening just in Texas.

Here is a link that might be useful: The Lost Boys

Granlan,

Very good point! Remove the Men from the compound. Let the Women and Children stay to get counseling and live freely. That might have been a better solution.

Gayle

I agree. Why move the kids and women out. They're the ones that have been abused and molested. In any other situation, they remove the abuser from the home. Those men should be removed and let the women and kids stay in their home where it'd be less stressful.
Leslie

Theres an idea! the men should have been removed. Obviously there were fewer of them, than woman and children.
Heres another idea. LOL. When the men are removed they should be required to have a.....lower, frontal lobodomy! Now, what are you going to "worship" with!
These men know exactly whay their doing. They say its religeon, but we know what they worship. What kind of truly Godly person would practice, what they call "Bleeding the Beast". Taking on "wives", making many children. then having the government, the government they denounce, support them. Its a sham and a cult. Dottie

I was thinking the other day about the men in the compound. Unless they are under someone's watchful eye 24/7, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if someday we hear that these men have left the compound. Now trust me when I say that I don't know how these sects work and I could be dead wrong but it just seems like a possibility that they would/could flee to another branch in another state to avoid prosecution if that's where this goes. Look at Warren Jepps, he fled and was later apprehended, so why not the rest of them?

I thought the same thing Deamn! That the men could abandon the Women and Children, just flee to save themselves.

They could legitimately be arrested for bigamy!

Anyway you look at it, it's a mess!

Gayle