To everyone: Thank you for all of the feed back and trip tips... GREATLY appreciated! Quite a few other people recommended that I visit Ceder Point when I was living in Michigan, but I never got around to going... we'll definitely try to make it there, especially since we've decided to add a few more days to the trip. We don't want to be in a rush the entire time. This is, afer all, our vacation. I'll add Put in bay to the list as well. Bonebloodyidle: I couldn't tell you how many times I've driven a long distance, only to turn around and come back home the next day. My jaunts to New Orleans (which is a 700 mile one-way drive) are usually no more than a weekend long... leave home Friday night after work, arrive in New Orleans on Saturday morning and leave Sunday afternoon to return home for work on Monday morning. There have also been many trips that had no destination... I'd just drive until I decided that it was time to turn around and head back. I've actually done that a few times recently on my days off, now that fuel prices have come down. Gives me a chance to be alone, unwind and think. Casey: Is your car the 4 or 6-cylinder engine? I have the 4-cylinder... but it moves the car quite well with the i-Vtec, dual over head cam and 5-speed automatic combo. I have no problems merging into highway traffic or passing someone at highway speeds. The engine is only running at 2500 rpms at 75 mph. No timing belt to replace, either... although I will have the chain and chain guide inspected at the 120k mile shceduled tune-up. What is the mileage on your car and what problems (if any) have you encountered? I'm at 61,000 on the 06 and it's only been back to the shop for basic maintenance so far. Gas mileage has actually gradually increased along with the mileage. My best average so far has been 38 mpg on the highway.

Sorry- to long as usual but here goes. It is really no more of an investment in time than looking for cabinets in the first place. It is a question of deciding what you are shopping for- price, brand, or service. It is just a question of focus. Too many people simply shop for-plywood, soft close, a pretty picture, a display they like,a color, a price. Finding a good KD- there is no simple litmus test- Talent, education, certification, years of expereicne (see below), what computer program, hand drawing, rendering prowess, all take a back seat to work ethic. Will they work for and with you. Your initial concact with them in the showroom should be between one and two hours unless you get a hunch that this is not the person quickly. Whenever possible make an appointment first. IF that asking for an appointment is met with “just come in anytime” it may less than an ideal place IMO. Before you go have a clear idea of what you would like, how you would like it to work, what you must have. Consider any and all procedural aspects you are interested in: scheduling appointments, service, follow up, changes and revisions, overall timing, will they at least advise on portions of the design they don't sell you (color, tile, backsplash, etc.) Only you know what is important to you. Find out in the beginning, ask don't assume. But don't be in a rush to get those answers, just know what your questions are. Listen, most of your questions should be answered during the overall presentation. For any that are not ask them at the end if you are still interested. First off you want a good fit, it should feel right to you. You don't need to marry them but you don't want to be annoyed, feel inadequate, confused, or untrusting. This is perhaps the most important aspect and just takes paying attention to your gut. Your SIL may think I'm great but you can't tolerate me then I'm not the one. Ask for and check references-preferably in the same budget range you are in. Don't look for a perfect record, better to find out how follow up was, how issues were dealt with. Ideally you want them from the last year or two, say 3 to 6 of em (depends on budget how many they can give you) It can be a good sign that you are getting current ones if they say they must check with the client first, means you are not getting a cherry picked list but rather more recent jobs. (I am always surprised how rarely anyone asks for references.) Will they, can they work within your budget. A good indicator would be when they discuss what kind of compormises you are willing to make to what you want. Just about everyone has to either adjust the want list or the budget to get the two to coincide. The KD who simply says yes to everything is a red flag. A bonus : suggesting “brand A” over “brand B” when both meet your budget but they feel that for your specific kitchen brand A is a a better value. Are they willing to price multiple options including the next better brand just to see if that may work for you (this is not an upsell technique, just due diligence) What questions they ask can tell you as much as the answers they give to your questions. Just as in a job interview it should be a 50/50 conversation. How many kitchens do they do a month/year/week. It is pretty hard to produce quality work if overloaded and the business model is crank em out. Max is 25 to 30 “sold” and less than 100 worked on a year. Some places have a model where the KD has a lot of backend support for ordering and drawing. In those cases the volume an individual can handle could almost double. By the same token, only a handful sold in a year (unless they are doing lots of big or hi end projects) would be a red flag. The business model matters more than the size of the business. A KD with only a couple of years expereicne at a place with a few designers BUT with strong support from the owner and other designers can be better than am old timer working at a “kitchen mill” where the emphasis is sales volume. How much freedom does the KD have to do what they think needs be done? A small place with only one or two KD's usually means one of them is the principal. Whenever possible talk with the owner too. How long have people worked for this place? Do they go through KD's like water or do they stay? Denigrating the competition is a no-no. Do they take notes? Do they continue to ask questions? Is it a serious conversation or a sales pitch? Do they occasionally challenge you on your choices-IOW do they ask “why?” You don't want someone to tell you “you don't want to do that” just because they don't do it a certain way or don't like a feature. You DO want someone to keep you from shooting yourself in the foot not just “yes ma'am”. As Green pointed out there are not a lot of independants. Personally I believe there are advantages to having a commissioned KD (glorified cabinet salesman). They are invested in your budget and have all the tools needed to make it. Independants like architects are not always great at staying on budget and are not accountable for it. When I started on my own we thought that most if not all of what I did would be independent. That quickly changed. I still do some independent design work but only for certain professionals in specific circutmstances. Snoonyb wrote: ;Bag-n-box cabinets are dimensioned in 3" increments. Custom cabinets, those built in a locale cabinet shop, use every " of space. Most of what is available at the “box stores” are that way. Visit an independent and discover that there are many modestly priced semi custom brand allow sizing in 1/8” increments, often at no charge. Other rather extensive modifications are also common. From the upper middle price point, every brand I know allows sizing and other mods. (I have one that is capable of doing 64ths.) I've never been willing to be prevented from designing what needs to be done by size restrictions-at almost any but the absolute lowest price point.

Mongo, We think alike. I just contacted the manufacturer of Prodeso and they sent me a handbook. Below is a table from their handbook. (I couldn't copy/paste the table intact so I just put information from the table pertaining to my situation). If I'm reading it correctly, it states that for 16" joist spacing with natural stone, I need two layers of plywood totaling 5/8" thickness, and the minimum thickness for a second layer is 3/8". Sounds exactly like what you stated. The table below does not take into consideration joist size, or joist support like the deflectometer does. Can I go ahead with my plan based on the information in this table or do I need to beef up my flooring based on the deflectometer calculation? Spacing - 16.0" OC OSB OR PLYWOOD Plywood Layers - Double Tile Type - Natural Stone Min. Tile Size - 2" x 2" Min. subfloor thickness - 19/32" 5/8" Nominal with 1/8" gap • Minimum thickness for additional underlayment 3/8” or 10mm. • Underlayment: APA C-C PLUGGED EXTERIOR • Additional Underlayment is required for Joist/I-Beam /Floor Trusses spaced more than 19.2” for any type of tile. • Additional Underlayment is required for all types of natural stone regardless of Joist/I beam/Floor trusses spacing. • Underlayment 1/2” (13mm) or thinner: Fasteners Spacing 4” ( 102mm ) around the perimeter and 6” (152mm) in the field. • Underlayment thicker than 1/2” (13mm): Fasteners spacing 6” (152mm ) around the perimeter and 6” in the field.

I wanted a feminine but not cloyingly "girly" look. I think you have hit the mark in the beige-y tiles -- and any number of colors would work as accents with this tile, so you'll be able to change your look over the years. I would not frame these tiles with the copper hexes -- I think the frames would be somewhat jarring and would ruin the soft, almost watercolor-y look of these tiles. I think I'd do the majority of the shower with the large tile in the lower right ... the flower-looking tile as an accent band ... and put the copper hexes (which I do like -- just not as a frame) on the shower floor. The small tiles will give you greater grip on the shower floor, which is important since you say you value aging-in-place. Yes, they'll require some scrubbing occasionally, but you're not talking about a big area -- and safety matters. Are these marble? I would not go with marble in the shower -- not matter how lovely -- it's not an easy-to-maintain material. Yes to porcelain every time. It's essentially "forever", moderately priced, and so many choices. Yes, labor will cost more than you expect. You can minimize this a bit by going with large sized tiles on the shower walls ... and by using a simple layout (simple square layout rather than herringbone, for example). Yes, labor should be about the same regardless of whether you use marble or porcelain. Excellent advice above about putting in grab bars now. Let the tile installer do it now ... let him PLAN the tiles around the idea of grab bars ... rather than having someone come in later /in future years and plop the bars in the middle of your lovely tile. Excellent advice, too, about taking photographs while the walls are open. Maybe you'll never need to know what lies behind your walls, but it'll take little effort to take the pictures, and it could be very useful someday. While you're planning this shower, go with a larger storage niche than you think you need ... and think about NOT using your expensive accent tile in the back of the niche ... you're going to cover it up with shampoo bottles. I'm not clear on this: Are you talking about tile for just the shower floor ... or the bathroom floor PLUS the shower floor? I've decided to use same wood-tone LVP literally everywhere in my whole house ... except the two showers. I have tile floors in my bathroom now, and I do not love that they're cold underfoot. Also, tile is harder on the joints as you age -- I like the linoleum in my kitchen better than the tile in my bathroom. Perhaps this is a mismatch of qualities /materials, but -- as you said above -- I'm building to please myself. Last thought: Do it right. Tile lasts a long, long time -- you'll likely never re-do this. So don't skimp.