Aha, I'm not completely useless, I found some photos in my inspiration file that may help clarify what I'm talking about (or so I hope).

This photo (supplied months ago by boxerpups, thank you, boxer!) is pretty close to my floor plan.

The door to the right of the fridge is to our DR. Here's the plan for how our wall where the glass cabinet is in this pic will look, left to right: walk-in pantry, wall oven/MW and 15" deep, 36" wide floor to ceiling cab, then hallway entry (to front door). We also won't have island seating. The kitchen table is only 41" away (oh, what I'd give for another 2' of space!). I also don't have as much room to the left of the cook top as there is to the left of the range in this pic.

I forgot to mention that we have 9' ceilings and we're taking the cabs to the ceiling. a 13.5" wide, 45" tall cabinet with crown could look unbalanced. Right? I'm having a hard time picturing this.

So here are the other options:

Impressive hood only, no cabs:

(I saved both of the above pics so long ago and I can't remember who they belong to. If anyone knows, please tell me so I can give credit to them. Thanks!)

An impressive hood may cost me as much or more than replacing the window.

Lastly, asymmetrical set-up:

(credit: Studio Stratton)

I'm pretty sure my everything-must-be-symmetrical hubby won't go for the above. It will bug him endlessly (my contractor is keen on symmetry, too). It might bug me as well.

What to do, what to do.... just another decision to keep me up at night. ;-)

That's a tough one. Personally I wouldn't change the windows, especially not to make them smaller (for shame :)), and I would definitely want the cabinets symmetrical, so that leaves two options IMO. Either the 42" hood with 13.5s (or nothing) on either side, or 36" with 16.5s on either side.

Hard to say what to do. Well, not hard for me, I'd go with the 36" hood in a heartbeat and take the 16.5 cabs for functionality. But I'm not a wok-type high heat cooker so the 36" hood capture would be more than fine for me. And I like having my go-to vinegars and spices right at hand in the upper beside the cooktop, and wouldn't want to give that up personally, and a 13" cab does seem kind of small for the purpose.

Do you need the larger capture area for how you cook? If so, then it just comes down to looks re. whether to go for thin uppers or forego them altogether.

Well I guess I've pretty much been no help at all! That was an awful lot of rambling for basically no conclusion ... and I don't have the excuse of succumbing to a cold, lol. But I do have exactly 16.5" cabs on either side of my range hood so I feel like I've been in those shoes, I guess. Here's what my 16.5" stores:

Taggie, thank you, you've been a big help! I especially appreciate the pic you posted of your 16.5" upper cabs. We won't have frameless (our cab maker does minimal frame but not frameless) so my opening will be slightly smaller but the interior space will be the same.

And I hear you on not wanting to make a window smaller. I comfort myself that if we did reduce the one window, we'd still have 8' of windows (3.5' and 4.5' instead of 4' and 4') but still, it's hard to reduce one of them, especially because I have a pretty view of my pond out that window. I have argued with myself, "it's only 6 inches, will it really matter?" So far, no winner on this question one way or the other.

Bump. Hoping for more advice.

I don't mind asymmetrical, so I'd probably put something like a plate rack, if I didn't HAVE to have upper cabinets. If I did need them, I'd choose the bigger hood with the asymmetrical cabinets.

Do you have a picture of your kitchen? It would help to see the windows, even if they're going to change. I haven't had any caffeine yet, so sorry if you mentioned this...but it seems you have windows in the corner, with cabinet/fridge on one side and hood/maybe cabinet(s) on the other? If that's the case, wouldn't an asymmetrical cabinet balance what you're doing, on the other side?

Your inspiration pictures are very nice. I don't have a gas range, but I have noticed on the forum that a hood 6" wider seems to be preferable. I'm off to make tea, but I'll check back later...so excited that you're close to starting your project! :)

Post the actual layout. The answer to your problem isn't isolated from it's surroundings. It will have to do with what other storage you have in the kitchen and where it is located, your sink location, your secondary sink location, your primary prep zone, your secondary prep zone, and several other factors including the ceiling height and potential height of the cabinets.

Thanks, holly and LL.

Pics of my kitchen to follow.

Holly, I wrote above that I'm not able to post a lay-out at the moment. It's on hubby's computer, he's not here right now, I have a printed copy of it but can't find my camera to snap a pic to post and the scanner left for college with my youngest son yesterday. As soon as I can, I will post a lay-out. I should add that the lay-out, as far as appliance location is concerned, is set. For three years I've poured over all the possibilities, on my own, with rhome's help (and a few others here) and with the aid of a KD, who couldn't come up with anything better than I had, and what we've settled on will work best for us. So I'm not looking for lay-out help, just feedback on how to make this wall work. Photos showing my ideas in action would be ever so helpful.

Oh, hooray! While looking for photos of our existing kitchen, I found a plan of our existing space and an earlier version of our working lay-out (still needs fine-tuning) in my photo files! I tweaked the latter in Paint to be closer to what we're envisioning now.

Okay, you asked for it, here's the info.

Existing floor plan:

Here's why we're changing it.

The biggest driving force is the island cook top. I don't have an issue with island cook tops, as a rule, but my island is too small for one, IMO. The two 16" bits of counter on each side of the island cook top are large enough to set a pot down but not really enough room to prep. I end up prepping on 2, sometimes 3 counter areas, which is a pain in the wazoo. Also, that 16" counter at the oven end of the island is landing zone for items from fridge, pantry, oven and MW and for all groceries. It's the hardest working section of counter in my kitchen and it's not nearly big enough for all it must do.

The long counter to the left of the sink is underused. The counter next to the oven is a junk catch-all.

The two interior doorways into the kitchen are on the small side: 27" wide doorway into the DR and 29" doorway from the front hall. All large things - fridge, sofa, bookcase - have to be brought in the back door.

3 sets of small cabinets and drawers, two sets on either side of the cook top and one set between corner sink and DW. Hard to use these well.

Photos of existing space (excuse mess, these were taken right after we had delivery of new fridge more than 2 years ago. Fridge cab had to be removed and adapted to fit.)

And here's our working plan. LL, we're leaning towards an induction but even so, my preference is for a larger capture area if possible. Gas or induction - both cooking methods produce steam and smoke. ;-)

The prep sink isn't definite yet. I know it would help my kitchen function well but after living with tiny island counters for so long, I'm reluctant to give any of it up. Plus it's an extra cost of a minimum of $1000. My main sink is between fridge and range and is next to one of the prep areas so I might be okay without a prep sink but I haven't made up my mind one way or the other.

And here's a Paint of how a 36" cook top with 36" hood might look on that wall.

(Are the plans too small for the rest of you to read or is it only my eyes? I can post a larger version, just didn't want to do it if it wasn't necessary.)

The fridge cab will go smack up against the DR door molding. Ditto for the cabs on either side of the windows. Our counter ends 7" from the door (not including molding). We're extending that counter by 2" so it will end 1.5" before the molding, which means the counter will die into the molding and I'll have a little sliver of painted wall above and below the counter between cabs and door molding. I've debated stealing that 1.5" - yes, I'm stealing inches wherever I can find them - and having the cabs butt up against the molding and have the molding jog around the counter overhang. Haven't really found pics to illustrate how that would look and I'm not sure if I'd like the counter to be that close to the door.

Do we not have the final layout in my software so it can be adjusted and you can see?

Without seeing, I'm also voting for no window change, a 36" hood, and more useful uppers.

Rhome, the last version you created for me had an island cook top and hood. That was Aug 10, '09. I've made a few changes since then. ;-)

I haven't taken the time to learn and play with CA software beyond my initial foray into it. There are too many other things demanding my attention, dang it. Blast that toilet flood. If not for that, I wouldn't be under the gun to get things moving along.

Unless I can magically find extra inches (2 more feet would solve all my problems, sound familiar? ;-), I think my choices are either 36" hood and larger cabs on either side or 42" hood with no cabs at all. And I'm thinking that the first choice is the right one. I'd love one of those statement hoods but I don't think it's in our budget. Hubby would think me crazy for even suggesting such a thing! Oh, heck, he knows I'm crazy. ;-)

Is there more room on the current fridge wall than the wall by the exterior door? I can see either location working for you cooktop, but if one had a bit more room, that might be the better location. I'm sure you've considered using a range instead of a cooktop and wall ovens? The fridge could go where the wall ovens currently are and make your existing pantry larger. That could get you more wall cabinetry. And finally, have you considered doing an island hood over the range in the corner where the sink currently is located? It's not the most usual of layouts, but it could be stunning with your corner window.

And if you don't want to consider any of these suggestions, then to answer your original post, I think that the larger cabinet with the 36" hood would be more functional. You'd need to make sure it had enough CFM and projection to provide good capture area and you might have to clean the cabinet sides next to the cooktop a bit more, but the better storage that would result would be worth those drawbacks.

The kitchen measures roughly equal on those two sides, holly. Someone earlier suggested moving the fridge to the back door but that would put it front and center from the front door and we're not keen on that at all. Additionally, I like having all my food supplies - pantry and fridge - near each other. Lastly, the busiest traffic pattern in my kitchen is kids coming in from the hallway to fridge, pantry and MW. They cut through the cook zone on their way to get glasses, plates and silverware (cabs near the back door). If the fridge was on the other side of the kitchen with the range on the back wall, I'd have that same issue. Oh, wait, there's another lastly. ;-) Hubby was loathe to move the cook top off the island to begin with and only agreed to do so if I did not place it on that back wall. He did not want his back to the room. Doesn't matter that more time is spent prepping, etc, he was adamant about that. He asks for so little that I gave him this one.

We're not allowed to put a cook top or range in front of operational windows. Besides, I have a helluva time cleaning behind the sink as it is and it would only be worse with a cook top. And I'd have to lose my red curtains, which I adore, even after having them for nearly 13 years. Thanks but no thanks.

I have thought about going with a range instead (love the look of the Bertazonni, so cute, if a range can be called cute) but I have periodic back issues and after almost 18 years of using a wall oven and cook top, I think I'd have a really hard time going back to a range. Besides, we want to do induction and there are few induction ranges - maybe one? - on the market.

I really, really tried to put the fridge and wall oven in the same space where the oven is now but I'm about 10"-12" shy of enough room to do that with no way to enlarge that space. Well, that's not quite true. I could do it but it would mean that they would bump out into the kitchen more (because the oven is currently in a wall recess), which means reducing the size of my island by a foot and shifting my hallway door over (that part I'm okay with). I can't expand towards the pantry without losing it (it's only 42" wide) and that's a no-go. I'd need 5' of pantry cabs to make up for all the storage I have in my walk-in pantry.

As I wrote earlier, we have looked at ALL lay-out possibilities, including a few really loony ideas, over the last 3 years. This plan is the best one for our needs.

How I wish I had more space. We bumped out the back wall of the kitchen/family room by 2 feet, eliminating the 2nd floor overhang, when we built and I'm so glad we did that but I wish I had expanded my kitchen both directions by another 2 feet. But it was half again as big as my first kitchen so I thought it was huge. What I wouldn't give now for an extra 2 feet to appear as if by magic. Sigh.

Forgot to add my thanks for voicing your opinion on the range wall lay-out!

The cabinets on either side of my range hood are actually smaller than what you are considering and I find them quite functional. My hood is a 36'' VentaHood dual blower over a 36'' cooktop. Compared to any previous vent that I've had it is fantastic. The cabinet on the immediate left is 18 inches wide but only 15 inches of interior space. The one on the immediate right is 15 1/2 inches with only 12 1/2 inches inside. I don't think you really notice the two difference in the size of the two cabinets:
{{gwi:1686801}}
Here is what they look like inside:
{{gwi:1686803}} {{gwi:1686805}}

Thanks, badgergal! Initially when I thought asymmetrical, I was thinking a larger difference between the two sides but you're right, a small difference shouldn't be noticeable. I'll just have to hide the tape measure from hubby. ;-) I think that as long as I have cabinets (or even just a wood panel) above the hood, narrowish cabinets on each side of it won't look off balance.

Do your cabinets touch the hood or is there a gap between hood and cabinet? I can't tell if there's a section of wider glass below the metal arch.

I'm sure my experience with hoods will be like yours. I'd be hard pressed to find a hood that wasn't heads and tails better than my aged pop-up downdraft.

I still sigh over your gorgeous kitchen.

PS I'm guessing by your screen name that you're a Wisconsinite. I'm a cheesehead by birth. ;-)

Well hello former Wisconsinite. You are correct in guessing that I am from Wisconsin. I live in the Lake Country area just west of Milwaukee.
You are also correct about the hood having a section of glass just below the arch. It is actually smoke colored glass.
I elected to leave some space on each side of the hood rather than have it touch the cabinets. I had the cabinet elevations drawn both with space and without space and I liked the look of some space. I left a full 6 inches on each side of the hood. Now that I think about it, I could have left a little less space and had the cabinets an inch or two wider. Oh well.
Two things I really like about the hood is the sensor that automatically kicks the fan into a higher speed if needed and the halogen lights that can be bright or super bright.
Wishing you the best as you move forward in the reno process. Can't wait to see the finished pictures.

Lake Country? Do you mean Pewaukee? My aunt lives there! I know it well, spent many summers visiting my aunt and uncle while growing up. In fact, I was just there last August. I don't get back often to visit these days but I always enjoy it when I do.

Thanks for the additional information about the hood and the cabinets around it. I think you made a good design decision.

Another Wisconsonite (Fox Valley) here. I'll bet you'll be glad to have even small cabs by your stove if you go that route. It looks like you've chosen a good layout.. that cooktop on the island does look like a PITW.

Yes, I am in Pewaukee. We've lived in this area for 10 years and love it.
This morning when I was putting things away in my kitchen, I measured the inside space of my cabinets. Last night I had just measured the face frames. Anyway my cabinets on each side of my cooktop have interior widths of 16 1/2 in. and 13 1/2 in. Both are certainly very usable.
Also I could have gone with a 48 inch hood but I thought it would look too massive. I only only have 8 ft. ceilings.

Thanks, deedles and badgergal! Nice to meet another Wisconsinite, deedles, and what a small world, badgergal!

badgergal, good to know how much interior space you have. I'm going to use blue painters tape (a visual person's life saver) to mask off hood and cab sizes and see what I think of my options. I'll post pics later.

I keep looking at our French door and the space between it and the window. There's 8" there. Maybe we could shift the door over, shrink that down to 4" and add that to the 2" I'm stealing elsewhere and come up with 6 more inches that I could use on my cook top wall. Hmmmmm. I'm sure hubby will think me insane. ;-) But I'm getting desperate for a few inches here and there.

I know you're trying to keep the actual home modifications to a minimum, but most of the time, people only use one side of the set of french doors, so take that into consideration and make the door a single glass door. You could change out your french door for a single full height glass door with a side light that was overall narrower than what you currently have. If you have a 6' door, you could gain a foot if you went with a 3' door with 2 12' sidelights, or two feet if you went with a 3' door with a single 12" sidelight. (Of course by the time you add in the trim, a 12" sidelight is more like 7" worth of actual glass)

Holly, it is already a single French door (hence my comment that I was considering stealing 4" from the 8" between French door and window). I thought about going with a door and sidelights instead of door and window but that would require remaking the Roman shades (Roman shades at a French door, I'm quite cosmopolitan, ha) and I would need to check with my seamstress to know if that is doable. I also am limited on how far over I can shift the counter because of clearances between table, door and counter.

We may reduce the depth of the cabinet opposite the door from 24" to 18" (the walls bounding that cabinet area are going away), which means that I'd have a bit more clearance between door, table and counter but that's not final yet.

I think you're heading in the right direction - keep your upper cabs alongside the hood and make it as symmetrical as possible. The statement hoods are beautiful but not sure if they are right for your space. And I wouldn't go assymmetrical given that this is the wall people see when they come in from the front door.

So excited that you get to start!! Looking forward to following your progress .

Thanks, domino! Good point about this being a focal wall as people walk down the hall into the kitchen.

How are you faring with your plans and project? I've lost track with where you are in the process. A toilet flood and forced bathroom remodel has demanded my attention. Sheesh, remodeling isn't for wimps! LOL

holly, I went over the numbers again, trying to see if I could find room to put a fridge and oven together on the oven wall. I can find an extra 4" by making the walls on either side of this alcove skinny 2x4 walls. Add that to the 60" already there and I've got 64" to play with. But that's not enough room for 36" CD fridge and a 30" oven, cab sides and required clearances. I could most likely get the 30" oven in a 30" cabinet but I need at least an extra inch for air clearance around the fridge, plus 3" for cab box (our cab maker doesn't do frameless, unfortunately). If I shrank down to a 27" oven (which is what I have and is too small for our needs but I know newer models are larger inside than my old one) and did without cabinet sides around the fridge, I could make it work. Just. But there goes my pocket door location, which means I'd have to reduce the hallway door width from 48" to 42" or 36". I would really like to have my fridge and oven in this location but I can't make it work, not without a number of trade-offs. I think I've finally admitted that this idea is dead. Dang it.

I want a time machine so that I could go back and tweak our plans. My life would be so much easier (and cheaper) if I could.

Sometimes we just have to accept what we have to work with. your kitchen is gonna not only be beautiful, it'll be much more functional!

I wouldn't shorten a window - they look great the way they are. I think after seeing badgergal's kitchen that yours will look great with even the smaller cabs on either side of the vent hood. I also agree that a huge 'impressive' hood probably isn't what you should put in there. I think it'd fight with your windows.

I also think that if you decide on a prep type sink (even if you don't use it for prep) putting it on the outer side of the island - maybe on the end more by the oven - would be helpful to keep people out of your cooking/prep area. Kids and company could get water/rinse hands there rather than intrude into your work space. Will your mw be over by the wall oven? if so, good place to have access to water.

-

{{gwi:1686807}}

Thanks, desertsteph! (Sorry that I didn't see your post earlier.)

And good point! I also agree that a huge 'impressive' hood probably isn't what you should put in there. I think it'd fight with your windows.

Thanks for the suggestion about placement of prep sink, but if we do one, it will go where I show it. Remember, I wrote that those 16" to the left of my cook top is the hardest working bit of counter in my kitchen - it's landing space for items from fridge, oven, MW and pantry and it's where we set groceries down when we come in the door. It would be self-defeating to put a prep sink there. And I wouldn't want it on the outer edge of the island because it would be less convenient to me as the cook. Our powder room is just around the corner (it's behind the oven alcove) and I'm the only one who drinks water in this house - everyone else drinks milk, juice or soda - so while your logic is great, it's not applicable to my situation. But don't feel bad, rhome has tried to persuade me with the same suggestion and I didn't listen to her either. ;-)

(The MW is behind doors above the oven and will stay in that location. Not sure if we'll put it behind doors again or not.)

I'm going to take your suggestion and go put my feet up and kick back. ;-) I'll tape off the doors and hood another day. This blasted cold has befuddled my brain.

lisa - on the hood - a lot of people are more 'hood' people but I'm not - I'm more a 'window' person - and yours are great. I'd much rather see greenery or what ever (except a bldg/house next door) you have outside. trees, plants, pool, mountains etc.

prep sink - yep, you posted that and I forgot it! I'm also not much of a prep sink person anyway. I live alone and seldom cook and I keep a jug of filtered water on the counter for drinking and cooking.

i do think they'd be real handy in a big kitchen especially if you have kids or more than 1 cook - like rhome - I think it's a necessity for her.