I add about 1/4th to the measure of AP flour, plus a couple of T. of wheat gluten....and about 1/4 cup honey.....yummy!

You have to consider all the low-gluten and gluten-free grains/seeds/beans found in this mix. There isn't nearly as much gluten as would be in whole wheat flour in this flour. So as Linda mentioned, add some vital wheat gluten. It would be a better choice in baked goods where you don't need a lot of gluten-development - cookies, quick breads, etc. You will find a list of recipes using this flour at Bob's Red Mill:
Vegan 10-Grain Pancakes
Banana Pecan Coffee Cake
10 Grain Yogurt Quick Bread
Craig's World Famous Natural Granola (or Bars)
10 Grain Chocolate Coconut Cookies

-Grainlady

Thank you Grainlady and Linda. Yes, I saw the recipes, but I mistakenly thought I could make bread or pizza dough with this flour. I don't know what wheat gluten is - I'll look it up. So, for now, I gather I'll be making quick breads - not my cup of tea. I should have checked befor purchasing. I bot the 4 pack! My bad! I e-mailed the company for recipes and am awaiting a response. My thinking was that I would sub equal amounts of the 10 grain for whole wheat in my pizza dough or bread.

As you can tell, I'm new at baking. :)

Donna

Donna-
All is not lost, you can still use it in yeast breads, but it will be best in combination with a high-protein bread flour.

Gluten is the protein in wheat flour that is necessary for a nice lofty rise to yeast and naturally-leavened (aka sourdough) breads. It's the reason you knead the dough - to form nice strong strands of gluten.

On the other hand, gluten-development is what you avoid when making pastry, most cookies, cakes, and quick breads. This is why you keep mixing to a bare minimum when mixing these baked goods - so you don't over-develop the gluten that is in these flours. You also use a type of flour that has less gluten in it to begin with, such as whole wheat pastry flour, all-purpose flour, or a Southern all-purpose flour (White Lily, Martha White, Gladiola, Red Band).

In this mixture - wheat, rye, triticale (a durum wheat and rye hybrid), oats and barley contain some gluten, but the wheat has the most) - the others - corn, soy, brown rice, millet and flax are gluten-free.

It takes strong wheat gluten to make that high-rising loaf of bread. This is why you generally use high-protein (gluten) bread flour when you mix it with a low-gluten flour, as well as possibly needing to add some vital wheat gluten (which is made from wheat with the bran, starch, and germ removed). If you have a favorite bread recipe for Light Wheat Bread (which contains bread or all-purpose flour and whole wheat flour), you could substitute your 10-grain flour for whole wheat flour.

You might enjoy the information at Baking 911, and the link I have below gives more information about flour. It's also a great place to learn all kinds of things about the science of baking - perfect for a newbie - and we were ALL new at this stuff once.... ;-)

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: Baking 911 - How baking works.

How would I know if a flour is a high gluten or not? I read what you said above, but when I purchased these bags, I just assumed all flour was the same. I'm afraid I'm going to not know the proper proportions when it comes time to make my bread. I'm just used to throwing flour in a bowl. For my pizza dough, I use half bread flour and half whole wheat. If I give you the basic flour quantities in my recipes, can you tell me where to sub the 10 grain and how much?

Thank you.

Donna

I've used these flours from Bob's Red Mill quite a bit in making yeast bread loaves - but not for pizza. For a recipe that calls for 5-6 cups of flour, I used 2 cups of the 10 Grain Flour and 3-4 cups of regular a-p unbleached flour. Another time I used 2 cups a-p flour, 2 cups whole wheat flour and 2 cups 10 grain flour. When kneading, if I needed extra flour, I used sprinkles of the a-p flour to keep the dough from sticking.

I've also used the 8-grain and the 7-grain - sometimes I just buy whatever I can find. Now I can get multigrain flour at our new co-op that comes from a flour milling company in my county. So I will be using that for my bread more often.

Teresa

I mill my own flour from a wide variety of grains/seeds/beans, so I've also learned gluten levels and how they work in baked goods.

Although the 10-grain flour contains wheat flour, it's not clear how much is used in the mixture. Probably a large portion is wheat because it's much less expensive than the other grains/seeds in the mix. It's also not clear what kind of wheat - soft or hard wheat - is in the mixture, which will make a lot of difference for making bread dough. I like to mill my own mixtures so I can be sure what I'm using, and to assure I have the freshest flour possible for the highest amount of nutrition possible. Fresh is best.....

You need a high portion of flour from wheat (bread flour or all-purpose flour, or whole wheat milled from hard wheat varieties), in order to have enough gluten to make a yeast-risen bread. It's also preferable to have a high-gluten flour for making pizza dough. Wheat has the highest amount of gluten of all grains. Any other grain/seed will be either low-gluten or gluten-free. Spelt is the only other grain with enough gluten to make a nice loaf of yeast bread, but even the gluten type in spelt is much different, and much lower than the gluten in wheat. The gluten level in spelt is about 5,000 parts per million. Compare that to wheat which begins at 50,000 parts per million and goes up from there.

For your pizza dough you will probably be fine using 1/2 bread flour and 1/2 10-grain flour. As Teresa pointed out, you may need to add a little extra flour to get the right "feel". The low-gluten and gluten-free flour doesn't absorb as much hydration as high-gluten flour (bread flour). If you don't like the results, use a different ratio of bread flour to 10-grain flour (75% bread flour to 25% 10-grain), or add some vital wheat gluten (1 T. per cup of 10-grain flour) to make up for the low-gluten flour.

If the 10-grain mixture has a lot of rye flour in it, rye flour characteristically makes dough rather sticky to work with - even with the correct hydration. People often add too much flour to compensate for the stickiness, which will make the dough too dry. There are other methods to use when working with a sticky dough, such as kneading it with wet hands (dip your hands in a small bowl of water periodically), oil your hands with vegetable oil, or placing the dough in a gallon-size freezer zip lock bag, pushing out as much air as possible before closing it, and kneading it from outside the bag (you can alter the hydration if necessary). There are also kneading gloves available that work for kneading sticky doughs.

-Grainlady

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

I needed an idea where to start. To be honest, and I'm embarrassed to say, I had no idea a "quick bread" had no yeast. How's that for being a newbie?? Has anyone made the yogurt quick bread on the bob's red mill site? Is a quick bread heavier than a yeast bread? Are quick breads good for sandwiches and/or toasting?

The wheat gluten - is that the stuff they sell at King Arthurs Flour? Should I still use that as well?

I'm sorry to ask so many questions. Once I get the hang of it, I should be ok. I've only made a few loaves of yeast bread in the past and obviously, I'm not that good at it. To be honest, a lot of my loaves go to the birds - they're that bad. I stumble along not knowing what I am doing, but the birds are certainly enjoying my mistakes.

I have a lot to learn, and the weather is turning cooler, so baking will commence soon.

Donna

Donna, Since you seem to be very new to bread making, I wouldn't use more than one cup of 9-grain as part of the flour mixture. Get the feel for it and make sure you like the addition.

You can order Vital Wheat Gluten, but you can probably find it locally. My Walmart sells Hodgson Mill brand in a small brown box for under $3. It is on the baking aisle near the baking powder, soda and such in my store. The box is small but you only use a small amount each time.

I, like Grainlady, have a grain mill and grind a lot of things fresh, and it is fun to experiment, but I would perfect a basic loaf first before trying to be creative.

Quick breads would be like banana bread, biscuits, cornbread, pumpkin bread, etc.

My best suggestion for yeast breads would be to find a recipe that has the flour in weight, if you have a scale. If not, then either sift the flour before measuring or at the very least, spoon it into the cup. New bakers seem to add too much flour. After you have made a few loaves, you will have a feel for the dough and substitution will be more successful.

Yeast breads are my favorite thing to cook.

Donna-

QUICK BREADS - are called "quick" because they are put together quickly - usually with just a few strokes of the spoon or only a small amount of kneading (10-strokes), and baked immediately after the ingredients have been mixed. They don't require a lot of kneading and long fermentation like yeast breads do.

Quick breads include dessert or tea breads like banana bread, doughnuts, biscuits, cream puffs, muffins, crepes, coffee cake, dumplings, scones, pancakes, popovers and waffles.

They are generally made with a chemical leavening (baking soda and/or baking powder) rather than baker's yeast and a long fermentation; but they can also be made with a natural leavening agent, which is commonly used for making what we call "sourdough" bread, but also known as a naturally-leavened bread made with a "starter" instead of commercial baker's yeast.

Quick breads can also be unleavened such as tortillas, chapitas, crisp flat breads, and matzo.

When using a chemical leavening, the item is quickly mixed together, panned, and goes directly into the HOT pre-heated oven. Leavening chemicals, like double-acting baking powder, react once when hydration is introduced to the mixture (forming carbon dioxide bubbles which help to give the loft and rise), and it reacts again with the heat from the oven. This is why it is important to have a pre-heated oven when baking anything that is leavened with a chemical leavening.

The recipe from Bob's Red Mill for 10-Grain Yogurt Quick Bread will be a dense, lightly sweet bread, rather than a sandwich-type bread. Although that doesn't mean it won't work toasted or grilled. I sometimes use a quick bread for making French Toast.

If you haven't already discovered King Arthur Flour, you may want to look at recipes there. They give great pictures and instructions, which would be beneficial to anyone new to baking. I've included the link below.

-Grainlady

Here is a link that might be useful: King Arthur Flour - Recipes

I have used King Arthur recipes in the past, but my problem now is to incorporate the 10 grain flour (not a King Arthur product) together with the vital wheat gluten (which I purchased a few days ago). If my recipe calls for bread flour and wheat flour, and I want to sub 1/2 cup of 10 grain, which do I take away from - the bread or ww flour? Or dosen't it matter? And do I also take away flour if I am adding vital wheat gluten?

I'm going to try the yogurt bread on the Bob's website. Not what I initially intended this flour for, but I have to use it somehow. I had visions of healthy, chewy, and crusty loaves and going through the four bags of flour rather quickly and without stress. I should have known better and researched the 10 grain before I purchased it.

Looking on the internet, I came across this recipe using 10-grain flour:

It doesn't call for the vital wheat gluten, shall I add it?

Donna

Here is a link that might be useful: recipe

This one looks like a softer loaf, but I don't have the turbinado sugar, the flax or the potato flour.

Here's the link: http://whatscookingamerica.net/Bread/WholeWheatBread.htm

Here is a link that might be useful: recipe 2

On the page for the 10 Grain Flour at Bob's Red Mill.com:

"10-Grain Flour is probably the most nutritious product in the mill. It contains freshly milled whole grain wheat, rye, triticale, oats, corn, barley, soy beans, brown rice, millet and flaxseed. Use up to 1/2 cup in place of regular flour per loaf of bread to add extra nutrition, flavor and fiber. Our hearty mixture is fantastic in yeast breads and rolls."

So, find a bread recipe you like and sub 1/2 cup of the 10 Grain Flour for 1/2 cup of a-p flour or whole wheat flour. If you sub *only* 1/2 cup, then you probably don't need the vital wheat gluten to obtain a nice, light, high-rising loaf.