Good strategy. I do the same thing even locally. I don't have specific words to look for. I generally look at the menu size, for one. If they have a thousand things then I avoid it like the plague. If they concentrate on fewer items that fall into a specific category then I'll give it a go. Some of the best seafood I've had has been at little shacks that only serve it 3 or 4 ways (back in Louisiana). I just look to see that they are not all over the place with their selections and it usually works. I like a place that sticks to one type of cuisine, i.e. Italian, Thai, Homestyle Southern, Upscale Gourmet, etc. I generally shy away from menus that are all over the place.

I know that Guy Fierdi (sp?) finds some great places, but I haven't had that kind of luck yet, lol.

By "what words", I guess I mean "what kind of verbiage". Or is that the same thing?

A description might be very elaborate, mentioning every ingredient, even the minor ones, and using lots of adjectives. Or, it might just state the main ingredient and the sauce, if there is one, without going into all the details. Does one represent a better restaurant than the other?

Jim

Most cities even offer reviews from the patrons for most restaurants. This is how I chose when we went out for an anniversary dinner. I reviewed menus also.

Yes. I looked at patron reviews too. Often, a restaurant had only a couple of reviews. Even when they had many, it was difficult to sort out the personal quirks of the reviewer from more-or-less objective evaluations. If we were going to a metropolitan area, the reviews would be more helpful I think.

In making your choice, how much weight did you give the menus? Did you find a good restaurant?

Jim

Jim, check out Chowhound.com for reviews by locals. Also, look at the photos of the restaurant too. Do you want to sit there? Is it updated?

Also, ask here! Maybe we can help point you in the right directions. I know I have have gotten great tips here.

I don't place too much stock inthe description of a meal. Finely ground beef, mixed with delicate seasonings could be a MikeyD's burger!

Jim, I start by looking at the prices on the menu. I expect to pay for good food. Then I read through the offerings to see what type of foods they offer and if there is anything that sounds good to me. Personally I don't care for food service junk, so if I see registered trademarks on certain named entrees that my tip off that they are serving that type of thing. Good restaurants usually word there menu in such a way that there is little mistaking that the are cooking from scratch. Sauces are key....

You might try contacting the local Chamber of Commerce. They all seem to have websites and with a quick phone call, just tell them the type of place you are looking for.
If you want casual, ask who has the best burger in town or the best fish and chips. If you want gourmet scratch cooking ask where you can have a very special dinner. Also ask who has the best view if you are in a scenic location. Most better establishments take reservations so that is another tip off, although I've certainly had great dinners at places that do not take reservations. The Chamber should be able to give you the info and then you can make reservations if needed ahead of time rather than be disappointed.

Remember, more often than not, it's the friends that you are dining with that turn a mediocre meal into something special.

Nancy

I check out restaurant menus on-line all the time. Sometimes I find that a restaurant I was going to try does not have anything on the menu that appeals to me. I do look at reviews also, and I also go to restaurant.com. You put in the zipcode and you can get dining certificates for about half price. I find that makes me less wary of trying a new restaurant that is a bit on the pricey side.

Joanne

Jim:

I've always relied on travel guides including and especially the Zagat restaurant guides. I've found the on-line restaurant reviews to be terribly lacking (I used to write for one) and often "stacked".

As for menus, I've never seen a good pattern between well-written item descriptions and good cooking. I've been in just as many fine restaurants with poorly-written menus as I have been in bad restaurants that had beautifully-texted menus.

I've also written menus for restaurants so I know just how easy it is to make foods make your mouth water just with words.

So, what do I look for -- since my favorite sport is restaurant going?

I look for an experience. I look for signature dishes for the cuisine or the theme. If it's a Mexican restaurant, for instance, I make sure they have carnitas and pozole; that's something that indicates it's more authentic versus touristy and it gives me something to compare. If it's Chinese, I look for potstickers, mu shu pork and gung pao chicken. And more.

It's an experience. I'm just as likely to have bad food as I am good food. And everything in between. I learn something, sometimes even that some cook can make even the easiest dish bad, and consequently I'm never disappointed.

Joe

Thanks for all the different slants on this. In the end, it will be a group decision and you know how that goes. I'm just trying to eliminate some real losers (and there are a few obvious ones) by reading between the lines. Restaurant hunting can be very frustrating in an unfamiliar area. We will be doing a fair amount of cooking I expect because we will have a kitchen and we will be on a relaxed schedule. I'm looking forward to that.

Nobody suggested letting Garmin (GPS) take us to dinner. Garmin is always happy to do that. She will get you to a restaurant all right, but who knows how the food will be. Robots are not discriminating diners. LOL!

For those who are familar with the area around Allentown, PA (Nazareth, Bethlehem, Easton, etc.) let me know of any hot tips you might have.

Jim

This may sound odd....but I base some of my opinion on the language and grammer used in the menu. If the menu posted outside the place says "toss salad" or "grill chicken"..I don't go there.
And in rural midwest....if they mention "garbage salad"...I'm outta there!
Yeah, I know it means lettuce with other things like cucumber and celery and carrots....but I don't eat at any place that offers garbage salad....no matter how wonderful the baked carp is!!
Linda C

Jim:

I used to live 1/2 hour from Allentown, in Chalfont, Bucks County. I know some GREAT restaurants in that area if you're interested.

Joe

Joe,

Hey, that's great! What a coincidence. I'm very interested in knowing your recommendations.

BTW, the exact location where we are staying is Sciota. I didn't think anyone would know of that place, but you may.

Jim

Jim:

Sciota is about 40 minutes straight north of Doylestown, PA -- the culture capital of Bucks County.

Doylestown has some of the nicest restaurants in the whole state (outside of Philadelphia proper and the better parts of Pittsburgh).

In Doylsetown: Ooka (Japanese), Il Melograno (It.), Chambers (Am.), Aunt Judy's (breakfast), Pagannini (one of the best It. restaurants in the entire country!). And on the main road between Doylestown and Chalfont: Los Serapes (one of the finest Mex. restaurants in the whole country).

Doylestown is also a hot spot for culture and is worth the visit, restaurant or no.

Joe

DH and my rule of thumb is the more flowery the verbiage the poorer the food. We avoid places with really over the top menus. Also places that feel fifteen ingredients mixed together in one dish (unless it's a curry, for instance) is a good idea. We like food where the theme ingredient is allowed to shine rather than be masked with a bunch of other things.

We look not only at the outdoor menus but also at the type of people who are sitting inside....does it look busy and do wonderful aromas come out the door?

SharonCb

yelp is another good chowhound type website.

Another thing I do is follow some of the posters to see if they have comments on restauarants I know about, if they agree with me, their opinions are more helpful.

I agree with Colleen, about the flowery verbage. One of the more ordinary places to eat in town used to feature "Green beans en buerre" and you got canned green beans with amybe a dot of butter....and "whipped poataoes and Yankee pot roast with brown gravy" Was watery instant potatoes and tough beef serves drowned in salty gravy made from commercial stock base...and that was a Jello salad place!! LOL!
Linda C

When we are going out of town I always check Chowhound and Zagat for ideas on where to eat.

I'm with Joe on the menus - I have found it very difficult to sort the good from the bad just from that. I think the best question would have been "Who here knows of good restaurants in Allentown?". I do rely to some extent on reviews from Chowhound and Yelp. I've never bothered with Zagat, however, as I have not found their reviews that helpful. I tend to use on-line reviews mainly for ruling out places. I don't expect a restaurant to be good just because it has gotten a lot of good reviews - most people are not as particular as I am and are easier to please. However, it if has received multiple bad reviews, then I won't waste my time with it. One or two bad reviews isn't enough, however.

Although I've never been there, I found this menu from Bay Leaf appealing. I tend to like restaurants that have multiple crab dishes. This one doesn't appeal to me, mainly for the lack of prices, but also because it is part of a cigar bar. I avoid restaurants that concentrate on the bar part, and that includes sports bars especially.

Lars

Bay Leaf was one that caught my eye, among others. It's on my list of potentials.

I take the same approach to reviews. The reviewers' reasons for rating good or bad are more important than the scores. Sometimes a negative review will reveal ignorance on the part of the reviewer which will give me a good opinion of the place, "The tuna wasn't thoroughly cooked" or something like that.

You might find the link below amusing. The reviews get more interesting as you proceed down the page. We won't be eating there!

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Pistachio Bar Grille Review

I'd use Chowhound and Yelp, and maybe the local newspaper. A quick google search does show a depressing number of chains.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lehigh Valley news

Just for fun, applying your personal criteria, how do you rate the luncheon menu linked below?

I think it does well on Nancy's "no food service junk", which seems to me a good criterion. It may be too cheap for her though. She might prefer the more expensive dinner menu. :-)

Unfortunately, applying one of Lars' criteria, it has only a solitary crab dish (two on the dinner menu). I'm not sure that's a valid criterion though.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Cafe Del Mar

Uh oh, there's a kids menu included. Just kidding - looks like a decent menu with pretty affordable items.

Looks good to me....food sounds good, pricess eem reasonable...food is well described with out being overly so.
I'd go there....if it were closer!!

Jim that's funny because I lived on the Island of Ibiza.....mentioned in that link and I was there for the opening of
the original Cafe del Mar and even before that when that location right on the beach (in Ibiza) was another beach bar. So I knew well the Cafe del Mar in San Antonio Abad, Ibiza and used to sit there after work watching the sun go down. Somewhere I have photos. Now it's been hyped up to be a touristic attraction for young people who sit, listen to music, drink and leave beer bottles all over the sand.

I know that's not the restaurant on your link but they have named it after that one LOL.

SharonCb

I'd give it a fly. Sounds like it could be unpretentious and good.

I like to go to CITY SEARCH....the 2008 voting survey is great and they have many cities. If there a Zagazt sticker in the window thats a good sign also.

I think the Cafe del Mar lunch menu sounds quite good. I see many things I'd try. It's pricey enough to hope for decent food on my book....

Yesterday a man came into the store that had just had lunch at the restaurant two doors down. He asked if I ate there and I had to admit that I hadn't eaten there in years. I thought he was asking for a tip on where to go and I started to tell him about a place about two blocks away..... he said, "I wish I had asked you before, we were just there and were very disappointed. I ordered their pate with crackers and the crackers were saltines....." He sent it back and they got up and left, figuring the rest of the food would be just as bad. The restaurant is pretty expensive by most standards and I don't blame him. It's been in business for many years but I don't know of too many locals that support it. It will be closing for the season very soon and will reopen next May....another clue.

Nancy

Thanks, Joe.

I take your restaurant recommendations seriously. The tip about Doylestown is helpful. We don't plan to keep a busy schedule but Allentown is not a hot spot of things to do. Best attraction around there is the factory tour of the Martin guitar company. I look forward to that.

Jim

What a great topic, Jim. Thanks for starting it.

My major criteria these days is - do the dishes look appealing - are the food combinations that would appeal to both me (a more adventurous palate) and DH (a much less adventurous palate) and me (the picky eater) and DH (who will clear his plate for manner's sake). Then, like Joe, it's hit or miss. I can't tell by a menu for sure if it will be good or not... But if it only serves food we don't like, well, then we probably won't like it.

I think Cafe del Mar looks great. And there are some simpler preparations, it appears, that DH would like, too...

I just checked out Yelp for the first time..didn't even know such a place exisited..I loved some of the reviews written up a for a few of my favorite local eats!!

Jim, I'd eat there, just for the mozzarella made on site and the fried calamari!

I also check menus, mostly because I'm picky. I want to be sure there's something I think I'd enjoy without thinking that I could easily make it better at home.

I tend to avoid hamburger joints and italian places, because I don't care a lot for ground meat or pasta. A seafood place can suck me in every time, to my detriment. Sometimes it would be better to get a great burger rather than substandard fish, but there are some things I just never learn....

Annie

Fried calamari is almost always frozen and pre-breaded. It's still tasty, but not any sure sign of great food (even if they're breading it themselves, I don't believe their claim of fresh.) And crab in PA is like looking for sushi in Omaha. On the other hand, hand-made mozzarella sounds great.

Spelling and grammar in a high-end place should count, but in a mom 'n' pop ethnic eatery doesn't mean much to me.

Google Maps also has a business review feature. Looks like people like the Newburg Inn.

Here is a link that might be useful: Google Search near Nazareth PA

ideefixe, I live in Michigan, there's no such thing as fresh calimari, LOL. Still, I love the stuff, and so I'd go to a restaurant that has frozen calimari, that's all I've ever eaten!

Annie

I ain't got that problem....as long as they got a KFC and they still got wings........lol

Ideefixe, Doylestown is about as close to crab waters as is San Bernadino. Lots of very good seafood in the Philadelphia area...After all Philadelphia is only an hour from the beaches of New jersey.
Linda C

An easy test I use to determine whether a restaurant "has it together" is to check their health and safety inspections. PA has a good public system for viewing them.

I live in the Lehigh Valley and would be glad to try and assist you with restaurant suggestions if you give me an idea of what type of dining or foods you enjoy. I am at work right now and won't be home until later this evening to post.

Here is a link that might be useful: PA Restaurant Inspections

Ruthanna,

Thanks for offering to assist. Between your recommendations and Joe's, I'll be well prepared.

First of all, we will be cooking some meals in, so please tell me the town where your good fish market is located. Linda's comment reminds me that we will be near Chesapeake and Delaware Bays, so we might want to take advantage of that.

Speaking for myself (there will be six of us, but the others have compatable tastes, mostly), I'm crazy about seafood, authentic ethnic cooking and local specialties, among others. I like a moderately priced, fairly casual place, preferably chef owned. Does chef owned conflict with moderately priced? I guess it does sometimes. I dislike trendiness for the sake of trendiness.

Jim

Jim, don't ignore the Pennsylvania Dutch places....the "real"
ones. Don't have a recommendation...but I suspect you will know it when you see it. They will feature "real" chicken and gravy and shoofly pie....and it should not announce on a billboard with blinking lights that they have shoofly pie and schnitz und kneip or any of the other traditional stuff.
Linda C

Linda, that sort of thing appeals to me. As I said, I enjoy local specialties. I enjoy them not just for the novelty of it but because those foods are prepared by folks who are experts at it and local standards are high for local specialties. I have found that something mundane sounding can be delicious when cooked by someone who knows what they are doing.

The Pennsylvania Dutch area around Lancaster is about a hundred miles from where we are staying. It's possible we will go there. Not sure though. Anyway, thanks for mentioning it. It is appealing.

Shoo Fly Pie And Apple Pan Dowdy

(words by Sammy Gallop; music by Guy Wood) Best selling records in 1946 by Dinah Shore (Columbia); Stan Kenton and His Orchestra (Capitol); and Guy Lombardo and His Royal Canadians(Decca). If you wanna do right by your appetite, If you're fussy about your food, Take a choo\-choo today, head New England way, And we'll put you in the happiest mood. with: Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan Dowdy Makes your eyes light up, Your tummy say "Howdy." Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan Dowdy I never get enough of that wonderful stuff. Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan dowdy makes the sun come out When Heavens are cloudy, Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan Dowdy, I never get enough of that wonderful stuff! Mama! When you bake, Mama! I don't want cake; Mama! For my sake Go to the oven and make some ever lovin' Sh, Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan Dowdy Makes your eyes light up, Your tummy say "Howdy," Shoo Fly Pie and Apple Pan Dowdy I never get enough of that wonderful stuff! Don't ask me where the New England reference came from. Those tin pan alley composers were more concerned with the picturesque than the factual. Jim

You'll actually be staying in the Pocono Mountain area so can check restaurants there too. Ok, here's the story. Every little village has/had an inn/tavern/restaurant or two. Because of an unusual quirk to the liqour laws in the Lehigh Valley area, until a few years ago "hotel" liqour licenses that these places owned could only be transferred to other inns, not to restaurants (including chains).

The city of Allentown itself is a dying, mostly deserted city and many restaurants there sold their liquor licenses to Applebees, Red Lobster, etc. which are located near malls in the same county. The dining centers were concentrated in these country tavern buildings. So if I were you, I'd rethink the options and cross off restaurants in downtown Allentown off your list, unless you're quite adventurous and finish your dinner before dark.

The sister city of Bethlehem has much better dining options if you want to eat in a city atmosphere. The Starfish is one of the best seafood restaurants in the area.

Pennsylvania Dutch is another term for PA German (Deutsch) and this area was settled by many German religious sects. You will not find the Amish, as you would in touristy Lancaster county but there is a wealth of PA Dutch cooking and culture. You can take a self-directed covered bridge tour or hex sign tour and end up eating hog maw (pig stomach stuffed with potatoes and sausage), pepper cabbage, or chicken pot pie (made with squares of dough simmered in chicken broth, not with a crust). Unfortunately for your research, restaurants that serve these local specialties don't have websites.

When are you going to be here? I will try to post some suggestions daily before then but I've been working on the political campaigns most nights after work so haven't been home too much.

Here is a link that might be useful: Starfish Brasserie

During your visit, it would be fun to throw a big cooler in the car on Saturday morning and take a food shopping trip to Allentown. You could fill it up with enough goodies for the whole week. IÂd recommend this route:

1. StravinoÂs (no web site - 269 5th St, Whitehall 610-432-255) for Italian deli items and excellent bread and cold cuts.

2. Less than a mile from there is Soumaya Middle Eastern bakery (no web site - 264 Fullerton Ave., Whitehall 610-432-0405) for freshly baked pita bread (with zataar on Saturdays), baklava, hummus, baba, tabouli, etc. Their meat and poultry items like shawarma are only fair  itÂs a bakery and thatÂs their specialty.

3. The main street in front of Soumaya leads directly to the Elias Market (no web site - 101 W Tilghman St, Allentown 610-776-1030), a Middle Eastern/Hispanic market thatÂs treasure trove of ME spices, hard-to-find produce, Bulgarian feta, Greek yogurt and items you wonÂt find in most grocery stores.

4. Next door is the Elias Fish Market (no web site and doesnÂt open until 10 A.M.) with the freshest fish for miles around. Note: Most fish are only sold whole and the lower prices per pound reflect this. You can have them filleted but have to buy a whole fish. The striped bass/rockfish are great and will save you a trip to New Jersey.

5. Next stop would be the Allentown Fairgrounds Market (website if you Google it  17th & Chew St.), which is a typical PA indoor market with produce, butchers and poultry purveyors, bakeries and prepared foods. One spot not to miss is DanÂs in the center of the market for their chicken pies.

6. If youÂre ready for lunch, The Ritz BBQ (no web site) next to the market is a bastion of home cooking with the PA version of BBQ (ham BBQ platter pictured below), hot beef or turkey sandwiches with gravy, old-time milkshakes and malts, and excellent pies.

7. Another alternative also only a couple of blocks away for the best burgers in the valley is WertÂs Café (no website - 515 N 18th St, Allentown 610 439-0951). Their specialties are stuffed burgers, hand-cut fries and masses of thin onion rings. Those items are wonderful but itÂs better not to venture into the dinner menu.

8. On the way back, IÂd include a stop at Crystal Springs dairy store (no website - 3550 Bellview Road
Schnecksville) to pick up dairy products from the herd behind the store and a container of their pepper cabbage. IMO, they also make the best shoofly and custard pies in the area.

I have included a link to a trip report I wrote on another site that included some of these places. If you search those forums for "Poconos", youÂll also find some restaurants closer to where youÂre staying.

{{!gwi}}

Here is a link that might be useful: Lehigh Valley food shopping

Wow! You outdid yourself with that post, Ruthanna. I'll pass it on to the other travellers.

Thanks,

Jim

Well, the trip is over and the dining experiences ranged from good to superb.

The superb meal came early in the trip at Valenca, a Portuguese restaurant located on the Centre Square in Easton, PA. Professional service was provided in a beautiful room. Food was as delicious and attractive as any I've had. I chose Carne De Porco Alentajana and was very happy with it. Prices were a bargain for the quality. If you have the opportunity to visit Valence, do it. You won't be disappointed.

As one of six travelers, my influence in selecting restaurants was proportionally small, so most of the preplanning you folks helped me with was overkill. But I was prepared for various contingencies, which worked out well. I would like to visit there again and take advantage of more of your recommendations. Like most vacations, it was too short.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Valenca

One day we headed for the Starfish Restaurant in Bethlehem, PA, only to find that it was not open for lunch. We lunched a block or two away at the Bethlehem Brew Works, which turned out to be a good choice. I would rate this as the best of the brew pubs I have experienced. Food was excellent, easily surpassing ordinary pub food.

The highlight was their beer. I chose one of their three Belgian style beers brewed on the premises and was delighted with it. It was an ale along the lines of Affligem. These folks know what they're doing.

BTW, Bethlehem is a very beautiful town, well worth a visit.

Jim

Here is a link that might be useful: Bethlehem Brew Works