Have not done it myself but the idea has always appealed to me greatly. I would just live on the upper floors however and rent the downstairs keeping it as commercial (ie public) space so as to preserve its relationship to the street and to the community ... cant stand it when people close off the storefront windows, seems kind of rude!

Although maybe you could find some creative way of still maintaining that connection to the community - for example a guy living near me in a commercial building uses his storefront windows to display antique artifacts and various art objects even though the building is not a business or open to the public. The displays change now and then, its wonderful to see what he's got in there -- something delightful to look at as you walk down the street.

Guess what I'm trying to say is it would be desireable to maintain the archetectural integrety of the place.

(A neat looking building by the way, Ill bet that second floor space is spectacular inside--would you have any interior shots?)

How is the property zoned?

Since it's right on the square, I suspect business zoning--but really, that's a minor concern in this town...:) Really. Variances are notoriously easy to get if you DO happen to need one.

I would absolutely preserve the character of the exterior. No qustion about that. I don't know about turning the bottom floor into commercial space because of the fact that our town square is all but DEAD. It's a shame, really, but true. I like the idea of displays that mimic commercial window dressing.

Sorry, no interior pictures. That's as good as it gets around here, usually. LOL Although I suspect really nice high ceilings, etc.

Our town has been doing a lot of this. The newspaper is featuring the latest, rooftop decks, a premium price on top floor apartments.

I LIKE the idea of this for our town. We are a small place (14,000 population) but about 20 miles from a Big 10 university. Our downtown square is fairly dead with a lot of unoccupied buildings. Many, many things have been tried over the years to try to bring some life back to it, but no one has ever really been successful. I don't know why. We have a really nice square that SHOULD be a lot more vital and active.

Well you know... sometimes all it takes is one person to get the ball rolling. Or one more that creates a critical mass so that people recognize --finally--that a downtown renaissance really is going on. Creative energy tends to draw in more creative energy...

Yes, that's kind of what I'm hoping would happen, but it's been probably 40 years since the square's been much of anything. It's a total shame!

I'd really, really like to see the inside of the place...

Definately check into the zoning to see if you can convert the building commercial>residential. I think it is too risky to make a purchase assuming it will be a snap to convince the city council to accomodate your ideas for the building.

Also check to make sure the building does not have a historical designation that would prevent you from making the changes you want. Even the colors you want to paint may be not approved colors.

If you wish, you probably can get that building a historic designation and maybe get low intrest loans and maybe even a grant to preserve it. If you do accept the loan/grant you are now very restricted in what you can do to the building but for most people who are focused on preserving and maintaining older building this is not a problem.

One problem you may encounter living in a commercial building in a business district is there is no city garbage pick up that goes into the area and you will have to contract for it just like the other businesses.

If you are not turning the building into a multi unit living space you probably do not have to worry about water and sewer utility city connections being upgraded for greater useage. I am assuming that this old building has at least one bathroom as it appears to be a former retail space and not a former warehouse.

Consider the fact that you may not be able to get cable in the neighborhood and decide if that is important to you.

How far have you checked into this potential purchase? A lot of times retail/commercial places are sold by land contract.

Wow bud!

Oh yes, I would definitely make sure that it could be converted to residential space before I signed anything. My suspicion is that it wouldn't be difficult to do, but no question I would be sure. ANY rehab on the square would be a good thing at this point.

I do know some things about historical designation as the house we currently own is part of a neighborhood on the register and so is the courthouse square here in town. Same type of designation and there are no restrictions.

I do NOT want to make it multi-family or rent it. The only government assistance that I know of for this type of deal are tax credits that you receive after you renovate and then rent the property. It doesn't apply to owner-occupied. (My next door neighbor did this.)

I don't think that it's a contract sale as it is listed--although there is a lot of contract selling here. Most of those don't get listed, though.

I do know that trash and cable are both available there, too. Even so, running stuff to the dump or recycling is no big deal around here. Gotta love the small town...LOL

Thanks, bud! Very valuable information... :)

Your county may have some programs not normally published to the general public, but available as part of their economic development projects. Our's does. I happened on their website when looking at an ancestor's home (her husband was a doctor and they moved the clinic to a more convenient location). It would be a super home, lovely Victorian brick, in the heart of downtown. Right now the city is pushing it as commercial, but my g'aunt lived in the floor above the offices and it's priced right even for residence.

I'm in the process of doing this right now (same town as you!) The taxes are high but will be lowered after exemptions etc. I spend a great deal of time at the museum on the square doing research on the Gaussin family. Pretty interesting stuff. Would love to find the original plans for this house. There are so many architectural mysteries that can't be explained. 1875-1880 second empire (don't know how to post pics yet).

This is a picture of the house that we recently purchased in the same town. (I hope I can do this)

Here is a link that might be useful: Shutterfly

Yep, I know your house VERY well.....we actually had a deal in place to buy it from the dentist who did the major renovation a few years ago. You're half a block from our current home now...LOL

You know how town is... I think renovating on the square would be fun. I keep looking for big projects, though. There's also that little house at 18th and H--the brick one, that I could make FAAAABULOUS.... Maybe someday. :)

I know about the Gaussin's coming up from New Orleans to this area--which of course explains the Second Empire--but I also suspect that the house was NOT originally Second Empire with the mansard roof being a late addition. Maybe a renovation to suit the Gaussins.

I also think that the green house next door to yours is a project worth doing--but GIANT... I do know the the original porch posts are in the basement. Historic Landmarks of Indiana was thinking about purchasing it at one time and stabilizing it, but then I heard that it may have sold?

I LOVE that old Second Empire house... :)

It's really funny how things work out. We were looking at the house on H before we bought this one..:)

I've done a lot of research on this house and the Gaussin family.... hopefully I will locate the "abstract". One of the previous owners must have it. I do have the original deed where the first Mrs. Gaussin purchased the land to build.

The house was built as a second empire. It originally was "L" shaped and had a Mansard roof. They changed the second floor plan to make room for the many boarders that they had living here. According to the 1880 census, they had 11 people living in the house. They moved the stairs to the attic which caused the confusion of the mansard roof. Roof was always there.
I only wish that the dentist didn't do half of what she did to update house...grrrr You know that she threw out a claw foot shower pan....gave away chandeliers and who knows what else....people have offered them to me. One of the contractors who worked on the house for her, recently gave me artifacts that he found (very old smoking pipe etc.) She also covered every wall with dry wall.....eeeeeeek put either laminate or sub floor over beautiful wood floors. I'm sure she had her reasons. Anyway ...I've been so happy planning and decorating...
Please come over anytime...:)

Sorry I got "off-topic" here.
***On-topic***** I did own a business on the square. "The Corner Cafe". Do you remember it?
I've talked with the owner of Bell Cleaners at the museum about his building. I think it would make wonderful loft apartments. Wouldn't you just love to live on the top floor of the Masonic Bldg!!! I need to get my camera out and post pics of some of these old buildings. We live in an in- credible historic area of fabulous limestone buildings. My neck usually hurts after a walk around the square...looking up at the beautiful carvings. I'm always amazed.
I only wish that I had some money to invest in one of them. If I were you ...I'd go for it! During the time that I was looking for a rental for the cafe I got to get into quite a few of them....interiors are wonderful. Some were very art-deco. The owner of my home "Gaussin" did have a Saloon and bottling company on the square from 1875 until around 1920 something. The first building was a wooden structure and the second (on the same site) was limestone. The second structure came down to make room for a Kresge 5 & 10!!!

I have worked on four projects where they converted older school buildings into condo's. Each classroom was made into a 2br condo.

I recently worked on a conversion from an old neighborhood "shot & a beer" type bar to a 3br residential. One of the features i liked the best about it was a bone dry full basement that had a 12' ceiling and a huge walkin door on the rear of the bldg. What a place for a workshop.

With all the beer coolers and commercial kitchen equipment they had in there it has an electrical system that could handle two or three single family houses.

Exactly what we fell into lazypup...The house that we bought could run an underground railroad with the guts that it came with. The last 3 owners were doctors and prior to that it was set up as a 5 family apartment house. It came with surround sound and intercoms but also commercial lighting instead of chandeliers ...oh and a steady stream of patients trying to sit in our living room for an appointment! I told my husband that the next one to walk through the front door looking for the dentist will get one!...lol

Vivian, just wanted to say I have no experience at all with the type of project you are considering, but I think it would be awesome (!) and I'd love to see pictures of the renovation if you choose to do it.

I looove old store buildings and think it would be cool to make a home in one. I work in a small-town (pop. 2,800) downtown in an old store building that is now our newspaper office. I know of at least one old corner building here that has the neatest space upstairs that could be an apartment. In our case our downtown is thriving due to tourists, though, so all the commercial spaces are used.

gaussin2ndempire

TAlk about falling into good things. When we did the bar the new homeowner decided to keep the kitchen intact.

A Commercial Blodgett 6 burner gas range with two ovens, a gas broiler and a 24x24 grille.

Commercial gas fired deep fryer

3 door Commercial Hobart reach in fridge and separate one door commercial upright freezer.

48" x 8ft polished copper range hood with automatic fire suppression system

3 compartment SS prep sink

3 compartment deep scullery sink

SS overhead pot & utility rack

3'x8' butcherblock table

and all the pantry storage you could imagine

Lazypup...you have me drooling here! I've been cooking on 2 burners in what was once the doctors lab (soon to be kitchen).

i know the feeling. I live on my houseboat. My kitchen is 48" x 72" Three burner gas range and oven, tiny fridge, and a chest deep freezer built under the floor but i wouldn't trade it for the world. No grass to cut and when the neighbors get noisy I untie the lines and cruise somewhere else for a while.

Oh My Gawd!!! You are just killing me!! I love the water and have lived near the water most of my life. In fact once lived on the banks of the Thames River in England...close to London...and would see children being let off house boats in the morning to go to school....sigh...what a life.

Hmmm let's see...How to change a shrimp boat into a house boat? :)

Okay, so here's the bad news: I don't want this building anymore.

The good news is: I want the apartment above the dentist's office two doors down. LOL (Yes, the same dentist that gaussin2ndempire bought her house from!)

We're good friends with her and DH is working on clearing out the second floor of her building so that they can store some stuff up there. He made the mistake of taking me up there the other night.

It's a complete shambles, plaster falling down, no electricity, just downright awful. but it has GIANT rooms with at least 12' ceilings, incredible wainscoting, square and cubic footage to die for, and a great view. I'm ready. How do you buy the second floor of a building? Maybe just a long-term lease.... :)

I gotta stop looking at buildings in this town. And I am definitely NOT going to go look at the two gorgeous limestone school buildings for sale....

We live on the top floor of an old warehouse building in downtown LA. It was built in 1899, and the train came right up to the loading dock. Now, it's a warehouse only on the main floor and the other floors are live/work lofts. I love it. We have 3900 square feet, 2 smallish bed rooms, a bath room and kitchen.

How do you buy the second floor of a building?

Vivian, you would have to convert the entire building to a condo arrangement. Generally this is done when a building is empty and the units sold after rehab. It would be a can 'o worms to do it any other way.

Interesting.

So maybe long-term lease is the way to go. There is no precedent for this in town, so I'm kinda flying blind. DH talked to the dentist last night and she basically said "Yeah, fix it up, move in." She cares not one whit about the money and basically just offered it to us for nothing. Fixing it would only increase her property value and we'd have to pay no rent--just renovation costs, which would NOT be inexpensive.

I would just want some sort of legal arrangement whereby we would be allowed to stay indefinitely and could actually get a loan to renovate that ENORMOUS space.

I stumbled to this thread by accident. I'm glad I did because this was a real interesting read. To those of you who save beautiful old buildings, I raise my glass. We are too quick to rip down our excellent structures in this country to make way...for what?...another Walmart?. There's no need to do this. Taking existing, lovely old buildings and reworking them into residential space may be the only way to save them. Our heritage shouldn't end up in the landfill. Just my two cents.

Carry on...

Steven

No bank will give you a loan to invest in a property that you do not own. You would have no collateral in the building to offer them. You could use an existing property that you own outright as collateral, they might accept that, maybe, but why would you invest your money into something that you could lose?

If you were renovating to start a business, that would be different. Retail leases are written differently and a bank may lend you money as a business loan, to rehab a place if you have a good track record of starting and maintaining a profitable business. I've seen a lot of restaurants open this way.

Even if you had a signed 99 year lease @ $1/year you still could possibley lose your lease, and hence all the time and money you put into it. I've seen it happen.

You also have to consider liability and insurance if you are renovating a place you do not own. What if one of your rehab projects causes structural damage to the building? Or there is a burst water pipe? Or if there is a fire because you left hot wires exposed during demo. Old building often have had many, many alterations to them and there are no blueprints indicating where things are behind the walls.

Are you going to be doing all the work yourself or is some of it going to be contracted? What if a worker should get injured on the job? Who would be responsible, you who contracted for the work, or the owner of the building? What if you hurt yourself by falling through a floor or something? Are you going to hold the owners responsible for a rotted wood floor or are you covered for any mishaps that happen?

There is a LOT to consider before jumping into this.

*sigh*

Bud, you're right. We've given it some thought, been up there a few times just poking around, but in the long run, it would be just too much to deal with and financially imprudent and possibly impossible. I knew that there was a difference in commercial and residential leasing, etc., and that's kind of why I wanted to ask the question.

We have an entire town square FULL of these kinds of spaces. Most of the second floors of the buildings down there are just like this--unused and in disrepair. If there was even the slightest chance that someday that square might be even moderately active I'd be the first one buying an entire building to renovate down there. The one next to the dentist's office is going up for sale next week for $55K. It's a decent place but definitely needs work. But they ALL do. Lots to think about...

You also want to consider something else... while all that real estate may be very tempting, there's a reason it's empty (and the square is dead). Whatever the reason (local economics, etc.) consider pouring all that money and emotion into such a place, and then ... one of you gets transferred to a dream job somewhere else, or (god forbid) something happens to you, or any one of a number of things occurs and you must move - are you going to have trouble re-selling? It's just that you sound carried away by the prospects there, but maybe you need to sit down and reconsider without so much emotion involved.

Very interesting read and glad to see others wanting to preserve history.
Vivian we are renovating an 1870 schoolhouse to live in. It had already been made into weekender, we did a total gut. We are both very anxious to be done and move in.

Wonder if someone could speak to the financing of such a venture. Difficulties in finding lenders? It seems if a building already has a history of it being residential housing -either a house or the upstairs of a commercial building- that's one thing, but if you're acting as a "developer" and taking a building for one use (manufacturing or commercial) and making it into something else then it just seems like one obstacle after another from zoning to financing, everything seemed difficult.

When I was looking into buying a 5 unit building all I could find was commercial loans which had a MUCH higher interest rate ... even though I would've lived in the building myself.

Anyway, if there's anyone out there who's done such a thing I'd like to hear your story - what were your obstacles and how did you get around them.