Gina, you can come to my house and pick Fuji apples, if you like. They are just starting to get ripe, and I'll probably have them the entire month of October. I use no chemicals on them whatsoever, but I do not know what was put in the soil before we got the house. We still have a gallon of frozen apple juice from last year - it was really too sweet for me to drink, but I could use it in other things.

I've heard about celery being the worst, and so I try to buy only organic celery, but I'm less careful about lettuce and spinach, although I do wash them. I hadn't thought to wash strawberries, however, but I generally only use them to make ice cream.

Lars

When the Dirty Dozen list has appeared on CNN over the last three years celery is always at the top of the list. That's why I started growing my own. I dry it in the oven and use it for soups. When I want fresh I buy organic.

I'm a big fan of Cracked, but I was underwhelmed by that article. Cellulose is just the non-digestible part of a plant, stems and such. It's fiber, and it's widely considered to be good for you. I don't particularly care whether it comes from a tree or spinach. Ammonia on meat is gross, I'll grant that. Fake berries aren't particularly horrifying-- they're about the same level of junk as tons of other things. I think you'd have to be pretty unobservant not to notice the difference between a blueberry and those dried up blue flecks in muffin mix. And I'm not sure most of those health claims are all that controversial. Nuts probably are good for your heart. The probiotics in yogurt may or may not survive stomach acid, but other than that it's pretty linear logic. Slightly exaggerated probably would have been a better description than horrifying.

I've read so many dozens of 'most important foods to buy organic' articles that I roll my eyes just seeing the title. Many of them have no overlap whatsoever.

After reading the satire from a comedy site, I guess I'm now convinced we should all stop eating and drinking altogether.

Maybe the starving people in the 3rd world nations have it right after all.

Excuse me, have to run inside. The sky is falling.

Agreed, 100%, Cynic.

Rusty

Actually....the sky IS falling...Thursday, Friday or Saturday...be careful out there.

Yes you have to watch out for that falling space debris. I'd hate to end up like the Wicked Witch of the East with only my socks showing! I don't get all fired up about the worst foods either. To each his own I guess!
Joann

I used to be that way too. I was the one that was all "organic-schmanic." But this year I had a paradigm shift in another direction. I changed my diet radically and my beliefs have changed as well.

Without going into detail about my new food lifestyle, I will say that I used to think our food manufacturing and distribution was a boon to civilization, and in many respects, it still is.

But I now feel that the industrialized food age has brought with it many unintended and harmful consequences, which are now showing up in the general population, and will continue to do so more and more unless some changes are made. I do not have all the answers to this dilemma - feed the world on a dime and save millions of people from starving versus a more sustainable, more expensive direction where our food is more nutritious and less harmful.

What I do balk at is the prevalence of Frankenfoods. Yes, cellulose is "natural" the way high-fructose corn syrup is. But what we see as "cellulose" in our ingredients lists today is a chemically-processed, undigestible additive created from wood pulp, which adds no nutrition, along with other additives that are doing the same thing. The PR from the manufacturers has already been ingrained and added to our modern food mythologies - "it's added fiber that we all need," "it's edible." Sorry, but I don't trust that and I don't believe that filler additives are all benign substances that are "edible." Yes, the human body can eat many things, we are omnivores, and this ability has enabled us to survive the ages. But "edibility" doesn't equal nutritious food that will help us thrive.

Anyway, that's my two cents on this matter. I haven't been around much because of my new eating and cooking habits. So those of you who don't know me don't know that I'm a rather level-headed and thoughtful person.

Lars, it's been too long since I've seen you - the L.A. group will have to try to get together soon - your house is pretty central, right? October is an uneventful month, isn't it? Hint, hint...

and my beliefs have changed as well

OMG tell me you're going to church and I might just mess myself!

(Nevermind, I cleaned up and read the rest of your post. Obviously not what you were talking about.)

Preaching to the choir here, Gina.

As for a SoCal get together: count me in. I'm NorCal/Central CA but no one at this end of the state seems to be very social. WTH Central Valley?

Eileen

Another member of the choir here, Gina, but of course you knew that.

Even if I'm not worried or afraid, I am still offended by the practice of adding cheap ingredients with no nutritional value and selling it to us for top dollar. It's much like the practice of adding 10-15% "flavor enhancer" in meat, which means we are paying pork roast price for slat and water. Arrggh.

And that's before we get into nutrition or any of the other myriad problems caused by agri-business as it currently exists.

Annie

Gina, I'm having Bernard come in October to do some landscaping for me, and when that's over, we can have a get-together at my house. Hardly anyone has seen it, and we're reasonably well settled now. We could make it an apple party. I'm actually closer to you and Jessy and further from Diana and Compumom than I was in Venice, but the back yard I have now is nicer. Plus my orchids are starting to bloom - mostly phalaenopsis and oncidium, not to mention the everblooming epidendrums. I finally found a place beside the garage that the other ones seem to like.

Eileen, I have a guest room, if you want to stay at my house while you are in town. I have a very comfortable inflatable bed for that room, which is also a sewing room, and so the closet is half full with bolts of fabric, but there is still room for clothes, etc. My sister and her husband stayed there.

Lars

LOL FOAS, no I am still an atheist!

Eileen it would be great to see you. Lars I like the apple party theme. I'll email all the usual suspects.

Annie it is offensive isn't it? Edible my ass, for fiber my ass. These additives are cheap fillers.

Lovely, Lars! I am used to bolts of fabric from my previous incarnation as a seamstress. And I tend to travel light. Thank you so much!

I will be in Hollywood for Thanksgiving, FYI. And plan a trip before then to visit my girl in SLO before then but no firm date for that. :)

Yes, Gina, it IS offensive, and I resent being treated like I'm so stupid I won't notice. (sigh)

I wish I were coming to California, that would be one fun get together!

Annie

I'll be a member of the choir, too...as long as I don't have to sing. I learned the hard way that stress and diet will make you sick.

We have been regressing....back to making our own bread and growing as much food as we can in our short growing season (though we are growing a salad garden under lights his winter in the greenhouse/front porch. Our meat and eggs are homegrown by someone we know or a 4H kid. DH is a bit of a doomer, but for me it's a quality issue, as well as all the reasons already discussed. And I'm cheap. It annoys the he!! out of me to buy filler. And working my garden is good for my soul and for my stress.

Wish I could join you guys. I need to schedule a visit to my sis in El Segundo before she retires and moves.

I think its important to post and share this kind of info, SOB if you don't want to read about it. Sometimes it is overload, and sometimes I want my box of Oreos, all to myself.

My own soapbox is Monsanto and their increasing control of seeds/crops. I am trying to no longer buy canola oils etc. and I reach for non-GMO whenever I can.

For those of us who haven't dropped Netflix, all of their food industry documentaries are 'Watch it Now' like Food, Inc.

Gina, why don't you start a 'Southern CA APB' thread, have folks drop me or you an email, and we'll see who we can rope in from the lurker contingent (I know who you are!).

I am actually somewhat interested in eating good food, which is why I had read the article. I think organic food is probably a good thing, and I think studies have shown that there are fewer traceable pesticide residues in people who eat organic. So, I didn't mean to poo-poo the whole organic movement or anything like that. But, I'm completely unconvinced that eating one conventional food is consistently worse than another. If so, I don't think anyone's reliably measuring it. As for me, I'm somewhere in the middle. Night before last, I made mac and cheese with smoked turkey and local onion, tomatoes, and winter squash. But also, I have like seven boxes of hotpockets in my freezer, and those things have like 47 ingredients. I definitely feel better when I eat well, but they're cheap and easy. . . .

In any case, I think there's room for healthy food talk here, and I enjoy reading your posts.

Good idea Jessica - new blood is welcome, bwahaha...

Again, I used to be the one pooh-poohing the sky is falling type stuff, so I'm not mad at ya, just wanted to let you know a little about my new viewpoint.

I also used to blame the obese for their woes, but I've softened a lot on that. I do believe in personal responsibility for your health, but I now think that a lot of our food sources make it difficult for those prone to gaining weight easily. Especially uneducated people. If you are raised eating processed food and not fresh produce and quality meats, then you are already at a disadvantage.

Going in the direction of further processing our food sources and further contaminating it with stuff humans aren't meant to eat just pisses me off so much. Gaaaah! I'm getting a bit too comfy on my soapbox here so I'm going to go swing my kettlebell now, LOL. (Menopause is not kicking my butt - I'm kicking its ass!)

They've even demonstrated that mammals have a preference for foods they've smelled the metabolites of in utero. Combine that with poverty and growing up in a food dessert, and it's no great wonder people struggle with weight.

JessicaV we cross posted. Yup, those packaged and fast foods are tempting and convenient. I still hit Taco Bell on occasion.

Katie, come on down!

Is that why I got that error message? I wondered.

Gina, I am sooooo glad you are back!

I'll second that, Jessica.

Gina, I've missed you!

Annie

I've done a lot of research in the past few years about this very subject, because I have some health issues that are exacerbated by chemicals in food-- and it's pretty scary. You can put your head in the sand and think that "it must be ok, they sell it" but that's not the best way to go...... it's hard to always make the effort to "eat clean" and to really know where your food is coming from, but to the extent you are able to, it's important.
(and for those of you with dogs, dog food is a whole 'nother mess, but I won't get into that...)

I've been feeding my dog raw meat and bones for nine years. Yup, I'm weird, or so I'm told. I prefer to call myself an Outlier, but if a child-free by choice atheist who feeds raw bones to the dog and other radical behavior is weird to you, who am I to argue? Heh-heh.

At least

I

don't

wear

Crocs...

DARFC!!!

I'm was very glad to stumble on this thread, I'm usually not active on this board, more in Kitchens and Home Dec.

Last year, after battling terrible eczema with my son, which included an outbreak of MRSA and 2 years of trying to control his condition w/steroids (oral & topical), I found an allergist to do chemical testing (different from normal allergy testing). Turns out DS is allergic to various additives and preservatives found in just about every personal care (soap, shampoo, toothpaste, moisturizer, shaving cream, etc) product.

As soon as I found better products for him his eczema went away. Basically, he was cured. It was not too hard to see a connection between what you put in and on your body after that.

Our family (2 kids, 2 adults) is now vegetarian, organic, and I'd say everything we use in the house and on our bodies passes a very strict "label" reading test. The Environmental Working Group toxicity databases are great for that.

I am not a fringe person at all, but I really believe that the government regulatory agencies are too influenced by industry and lobbyists and aren't really looking out for us and we have to do it ourselves.

I think Europe is ahead of us in this regard. They use the precautionary principle -- things need to be proven safe before they can be sold, unlike in the US where things have to be proven dangerous after they're already on the market, which takes years of data collecting and statistical analysis. GMO foods have to be labeled there and there are many pesticides that are banned in Europe but widely used in the US.

I'm curious what you found that works. I have terrible hand eczema, and since I wash my hands constantly, I'd be interested to try some gentle soap and see if it makes any difference.

I haven't posted on this thread yet because I'd just be echoing what many have already said. I don't think what the article said was new, but there are so many people out there that don't realize how bad for them the processed food are, in spite of all the reports to that effect.

I'd be interested in finding fragrance free shampoos and conditioners that do a good job. I have skin problems too. I've found soaps that work, but no shampoos I like that are gentle and fragrance free.

Sally

Sally Beauty (appropriately enough) has a couple of fragrance-free shampoos and conditioners. They didn't make my scalp any less itchy, but you could give them a shot. I tried one with no sulfates once, but it left my hair so greasy that I immediately washed it again with regular shampoo.

Jessica, Bud has always had eczema and other skin issues, to the point where his skin would crack and bleed. We finally found that he does really well with Kiss My Face olive oil and aloe soap, and pretty well with the plain olive oil soap. Other ingredients, like pomegranite, etc., make it worse again.

the best, though, is the goat's milk soap made by a local person, she makes it with no fragrances or dyes. Bud even uses it to wash his hair, because he has a buzz cut so doesn't really need shampoo.

Annie

Monsanto: Where they are and what they do is scary. Anyone read "Animal, Vegetable, Miracle"? Goes into great detail about Monsanto.

jude

Thanks, Annie. That sounds like it's worth a shot.

Thanks, Jessica, I'll check them out. I wish I could get some of that goats milk soap. Maybe I could find someone local that makes it.

I read Animal, Vegetable, Miracle, and enjoyed it pretty much, although I think she was writing for a very uneducated audience. Some of what she wrote was so basic, it's astounding to me that people didn't already know it, like where potatoes come from. But, I guess her experience has shown her that some people really don't know that. Which gets us to the point of the original article that was linked.

Sally

jessica, one of the things he's allergic to is something called cocomidopropyl betaine. It's in shampoo, conditioner, soap, toothpaste, moisturizer, etc. He's also allergic to the metal in zippers, snaps, rivets on jeans, etc. For the first allergy I've found a couple lines of personal care products that work for him. Sometimes a company will have several products in their family of brands and some have a problem ingredient and others don't. The Dessert Essence shampoos and conditioners are very pure. He uses the fragrance free 'flavor' which has sky blue packaging. I get them at Whole Foods and they cost about $8 each. This lasts a boy w/short hair a very long time so the price isn't so horrible. I don't know if knowing what he uses will help if you're allergic to something else but imo the purer the product the less likely you are to encounter something you're allergic to. I know. Sally2, fragrance free is really just the beginning of the problem. I've seen fragrance free products that are still full of other problem ingredients.

jude31: agreed about Monsanto. Scary what they are doing to US farmers.

Judith, that's a good point. I'm allergic to many metals, too. My wedding ring is silver, and I don't react to it, but almost anything else causes a rash. I'll look for that ingredient in the products I use.

Monsanto is pure evil.

I have found canola oil that claims to be non-gmo. They sell it at Whole Foods. The brand name is Spectrum, and they have an organic version and a non-organic labeled version, both of which claim to be non-gmo. I've been buying the non-organic one since it's more than a little less expensive. When I buy tofu, I look for the non-gmo labeling, also. I wish this country labeled all it's produce as to gmo or non-gmo.

Sally

Sally,

Thanks for the info on the non-GMO canola oil at Whole Foods. I didn't know it existed.

/tricia

We don't eat fast food....I cook from scratch and we only go to sit down restaurants.

Linda

Sally2, I went and checked my son's other allergies. Regarding the cobalt allergy, it's easy to avoid clothes that have rivets and metal zippers and when it's not avoidable you can cover the metal with clear nail polish. Toluene free, preferably. And I forgot to mention the BIG one that he's allergic too: Fragrance. Fragrance is not always listed as Fragrance, sometimes it is listed are Parfum. I don't know why the French spelling is in otherwise English language labelling, but there you are. As an aside, there are chemicals called Pthalates that are the carrier for the fragrances. Pthalates are bad for you, I think they are petrochemical based and carcinogenic too, you want to avoid them even if you aren't allergic. They are in most personal care and scented home products. For cleaning more often than not I used organic Dr. Bronner's with either the Peppermint or Tea Tree essential oil. You can even use this as a body wash and some people brush their teeth with it, it's that safe.

That's a good tip about the nail polish. I always shop for items labeled fragrance free, rather than unscented, because unscented doesn't necessarily mean fragrance free.

Tricia, I hope your Whole Foods carries the same products. There may be regional differences, but if not that brand, I bet they'll have something equivalent.

Sally

I probably worry more about what my furbabies eat than what I eat; perhaps because they can't buy their own food. I have been making their food for sometime. I have to fight and bite my tongue when I see the $#)+ people are buying for their pets. I don't go down the pet isle anymore because I found myself mumbling about (insert pet food company) slowly killing our pets; shoppers didn't seem to take kindly to that.

With all the small farmers and ranchers shutting down for various reasons, we are going to be in a world of hurt. We will all have to go live with Annie.

Feel like sharing any tips or recipes? I have sworn off feeding the dog people food after he got sick from pasta carbonara yesterday.

Jessica, I started with this website then played around with the recommended ingredients until I found what my kitties would eat consistently.

Here is a link that might be useful: Cat & Dog Food

Thanks very much. The site seems great. I am going to assume when they say that sled dogs need extra fat in their diet, they don't mean the ones that nap six hours a day. . .

For those of you looking for homemade food options for your cat or dog - here's a link to my vet's crock pot diet. My vet is a holistic veterinarian who specializes in food therapy. I have had really amazing results with this diet for my own dogs. The difference in how my dogs look after a year of eating real food versus how they looked when they were eating high quality kibble is really impressive. I have three labradors, and one of them eats only crock pot food (really dicey stomach) and the other two eat half crock pot/half kibble. I would love to have everyone on just crockpot diet but logistically it is hard to pull off for three big dogs.

http://mypersonalchef.wordpress.com/2010/05/18/dr-ruths-basic-crock-pot-diet-for-pets/

"For example, if you have the typical Jack Russell�you know the ones that are bouncing all over the place and can�t seem to calm themselves�then you have a Fire Animal and needs to eat Cool/Cold and/or Neutral energy foods."

Yeah, sorry, you lost me there.

jessicavanderhoff, I understand if you are not interested in holistic care or Chinese medicine. However, I have two dogs with chronic health problems that have been greatly, greatly improved with the addition of alternative therapies. One of my dogs literally has her life back - for seven years she was arthritic, painful, and lethargic. She spent most of her days sleeping in a crate. Now she is playing and participating in all household activities, including going for long walks every day. I spent literally thousands of dollars on conventional veterinary care for this dog with very poor results. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

The Chinese medicine theory can sound far fetched, but I've seen the results with my own eyes. I don't understand how planes stay up in the air either, but I still fly when I have to travel long distances. To each his own.

I am glad to hear your girl is feeling better. That's always good. I think the shape of an airplane wing causes an area of high pressure underneath, creating lift.