With both doors open, WOW! One of the doors, when open, would have blocked the entire doorway that we would have had to rebuild just so we could fit both the appliances on that wall. BOTH of them open, well, 2 x 64" = 128" or in other words, a LOT. Even if you had only one door open at a time, that's 64" plus the 36" door ... you get what I mean. If we'd really wanted those, it wasn't the cost of the two appliances themselves that we were worried about, it was the cost in changing the structure as well as the opportunity cost of having that space contain counter tops, storage, etc.

That wasn't going to happen, so we opted to get a new and improved cheapo (but energy efficient!) second fridge in the basement. We can put a turkey in there, the Costco-sized bags of lemons & limes, the portioned-out containers of chili, stew, soup, and the like that we frequently make in the winter, frozen meat, meat that is defrosting in the refrigerator, and on, and on, and on. Those would not fit very easily in the separate wide refrigerator and freezer that we were lusting after for a short while.

Wow. Now I want that.

:P

In our house who cleans/repairs the space gets extra say in things. If you clean the kitchen I would hold out for white cabinets. When we redid the bathroom we got top of the line plumbing because DH handles that and didn't want to have to mess with repairs/fixes. Dropping the issue for a while would probably be good. I know it's hard I've waited for 8 years. Then, maybe each of you can make a priority list and then compare them. Let your designer help you assign $ to each item. Then see how the priorities and $ fit together.

LOL! If he is going to play this game, tell him he can have the 64" monster fridge when you get your white cabinets. I'm guessing that you'd be willing to consider a 30" range in exchange for white cabs . . . maybe? Compromise is what makes the world go around.

In all seriousness, I think that fridge is ridiculous for your space, but I'd be willing to negotiate if I were you. I like the ideas of the smaller options, like the 27" combo. But, what I REALLY think is that your DH is stalling and that the added cost of moving a doorway combined with the price tag on an appliance like that will call his bluff.

Rock Whisperer so true; coal is in your wheelhouse!

Dr Beanie, wow that's quite the frankenfridge. Thanks for the perspective. BTW, love your Lady Gaga-esque veiled disguise!

I can't add much to the "this refrigerator is excessive" argument. It is excessive, and that's that.

I would recommend that you post your layout in a separate thread to make sure it's the best for your space.

I would also recommend that you not cave on the white cabinets you long for. White cabinets do not get dirtier. Mine stay much cleaner than my previous light maple cabinets because I can see the dirt and wipe it up immediately. I have 4 kids and I guarantee they are messier than anyone living in your house. I thought white was impractical and looked at natural maple cabinets. I ultimately rejected them because they often yellow over time. And I longed for white.

Good luck!

mpagmom - Thanks. I have posted the layout numerous times and this one has the go. I dont want to waste people's time posting it again in another separate thread. If you would like to see it, here are some pictures with measurements and of what the room looks like now.

The fridge would be going on the wall where the old kitchen desk is now. Its between the door to the 1/2 bath and the door to the laundry/mudroom.

This pick shows the dimensions.

This is the current layout

And you can see the layout I am going for in the first post at the beginning of this thread. Basically I want a square/rectangular island. The sink will stay put. I want a 36" range on the back wall where the current fridge/oven is now. The new fridge would go on the wall where the old desk currently sits. There is space behind there (a mud room, utility closet and a pocket door to enter the 1/2 bath from that mud room) so we could recess a regular depth fridge to make it look more built-in.

My kitchen already fits a 6 person table so I do not need seating at the island. I would love seating, but i dont want it to be squishy so I am fine without. Its a very open floor plan.

Also, we would add 2 new windows on either side of the range to give more light to the kitchen.

Sorry I didnt read all the comments and post replies back to individuals!

Wow, those pictures of the 32" unites are HUGE! I am only 5'2" so those would be wider than I am tall as well.

I really appreciate all of the comments. I am not offended by any of them! Its nice to see that most people think the 64" fridge/freezer is overkill. DH and I butt heads alot over design issues. I like color, he hates it. I want white cabinets, he will only entertain the idea of wood. etc...etc...He also thinks researching things like kitchen layout is stupid. I guess he thinks the time I put into thinking about this kitchen is overkill. But he's been leading me on about it for years and this year seemed like it was going to be the real thing. He doesnt like that I have a layout "in my head". He thinks the fridge is fine where it is and he LOVES our current island that is diagonally set in the kitchen (GAG!). But alot of the time I think he is just dead set on agreeing with me, even if my idea is the best one. Sometimes its not even an idea. I could present him with reviews on appliances and he wouldnt take awful reviews of something into account. That sort of thing. And yes, it drives me crazy.

I was/am willing to give up my white cabinets (again) but now I am having 2nd thoughts.....but to be honest I am not the worlds best cleaner, and my kids are so messy and I am messy (but more in a "I dont put stuff away" way) and I have a 95 lb black lab and a 23 lb cat and they rub up against the cabinets and get that oily residue on the corners. So maybe white wouldnt be the best choice for me. I am also worried because custom cabinets are not really in the cards for us. Most likely we would go with Kraftmaid at Lowes and I am fine with their stained finishes but I dont know if the white finishes (Dove White) would be as nice as the white kitchens I see here.

But my floors are red oak and are going to stay that way and I love the look of white painted cabs with that. And I cant think of another wood I want. I like natural cherry, but our kitchen is somewhat dark and I wanted something more cheery. I like natural cherry but not as much when it starts to darken. And now I'm worried about the yellowing of natural maple!

I'll keep you updated on what we decide about the kitchen. I am adamant that it does not include a 64" fridge though! I am going to lay low about it for a couple of weeks at least.

I have maple (natural) cabinets with cherry (natural) accents going on 13 years and I love the color. Our bathroom has natural a cherry vanity and linen cabinet and love it too. I don't feel the maple has yellowed (they were Kraftmaid).
The natural cherry has darkened with age, but they are not dark! They are a medium color. I would buy them again in a heartbreat.

The natural cherry cabinet in bathroom

I keep waiting for CEFreeman to weigh in. :)

What if you did a painted island and did the perimeter cabinets stained? You wouldn't necessarily have to use white and the fun of the island is that you could change out the paint color every so often to give the space new life. Would he let you splurge a little on getting a custom painted island if you used economical stained perimeter cabinets? Would he consider that a compromise?

Maybe these pics from houzz.com could inspire you:

[Traditional Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Boston Kitchen And Bath Divine Kitchens LLC

[Traditional Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Minneapolis Kitchen And Bath Fixtures Dura Supreme Cabinetry

[Traditional Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by San Diego Architect Dorothy Howard AIA, Architect

[Traditional Kitchen design[(https://www.houzz.com/photos/traditional-kitchen-ideas-phbr1-bp~t_709~s_2107) by Minneapolis Design-build Lake Country Builders

Or maybe he gets a maple island and you get painted cabinets everywhere else.

The cabinets you have now don't look much different from natural maple and if you don't LOVE the color why bother going thru the hassle and expense of putting in something so similar.
Maybe that's it, like someone said earlier maybe he just doesn't want to change anything. You should have an honest conversation about that.

Crap, can't he have a floor to ceiling BROWN man cave somewhere else? :>)

Or maybe he gets a maple island and you get painted cabinets everywhere else.

The cabinets you have now don't look much different from natural maple and if you don't LOVE the color why bother going thru the hassle and expense of putting in something so similar.
Maybe that's it, like someone said earlier maybe he just doesn't want to change anything. You should have an honest conversation about that.

Crap, can't he have a floor to ceiling BROWN man cave somewhere else? :>)

My friends have that Kenmore pair. They installed them in what used to be a bookshelf alcove. Though they seem huge, they are counter depth. Hence their internal cubic size isn't that much. That is, the large Samsung 29cuft holds more in the fridge (I think). My friend has both a 20cuft top freezer fridge and a 16cuft upright freezer in the garage for overflow and large items. Though there are only two of them, they entertain a lot and buy in bulk.

BTW: they aren't truly 'built-in'. That grate at the top is simply a trim kit. They are two separate units.

Island - you made me crack up laughing. I wish he could have his man cave somewhere else! The ironic thing is that he always wants the walls painted white, and now that I want the cabinets painted white, he says no!

I've been reading the thread the last couple days. (yeah, where is CE?)

No but really. I heart those all fridge/freezer deals. I wish I had room :(

Maybe you should tell him if it's his real hearts desire then you're fine with it cause you love him more than a kitchen layout and give him a big smooch. See what happens if you stop fighting and give up some control. As my Mom used to say "it takes two to tango"..

Speaking as one that has been fighting to develop the ability to relinquish control for oh, going on 10 years now... I find now it works better to pick my battles and the longer I go the fewer things I find worth battling about cause I like getting along so much better.

And actually, I seem to end up with him giving me what I want happily which is a nicer way to get it.

Not preaching. Just trying to offer my perspective in hopes of helping.

Deedles,

I agree with you 100% but a 64" monster would be the battle I'd pick, LOL. After all, I am the one who cooks and has to spend so much time in the kitchen! LOL

We haven't talked about it since yesterday morning. The more I think about it there is no way he is going to fit that in our house. So I am becoming less worried about it. But now I really want my white cabinets again (thanks to you guys!)

Khallock, white walls eh? Do you live somewhere cold? How about an ice cave? An igloo man cave? Or maybe he could move into that giant fridge!
I'm with eleena on this battlefield.

This thread made me laugh, then get very ashamed. Laugh at all the husband-wife clashes and anger and oh-no-he-dih-ents... then become ashamed at what my wife would have posted about ME were she a GWer!

@khallock, count your blessings, I'm WAY WORSE than your husband. My wife wanted a 48" range, we got a 60" CC. She wanted a 48" SxS fridge, we got a 72" Northland twin pair (36" freezer, 36" ref). She wanted espresso cabinets, we got natural quartersawn walnut. She wanted one wall removed between the dining and the kitchen, we removed 2 walls (incl. a bearing post), all the ceilings, AND a bearing column wall involving a huge new beam and digging up the foundation for new pad footings and the downstairs walls for new structural posts. There was stuff we agreed on (Kohler Stages sinks), and some stuff she got (I wanted oversized induction wok burners, and she vetoed those).

About your refrigerator/freezer, 32" is a size made exclusively by Frigidaire/Electrolux (to my knowledge), and we almost went with those but decided for a little more width we'd get a lot more cubic feet with a 36" Northland twin pair: 19 cu ft x 2 vs. 24 cu ft x 2 (27% more storage in 12.5% more width). Northland's 30" all ref/all freezer, narrower than the 32", stores more than the Frigidaire/Electrolux 32" (19.8 cu ft). They also look much more impressive because of their full height (84" with grills instead of 79" high with grill).

We're still working out our issues with Northland (packaging looked damaged, SS wasn't scratched; they didn't ship us compressors, shipped them later; the freezer's door looks warped/undulated, they're investigating it), but they look beautiful and were VERY affordable ($7K for the pair). You might look into their stuff; save you a pretty penny. They make SxS's from 36" to 72" wide and every 6" in between, plus all refrigerators and all-freezers 18" to 36" wide and every 6" in between. Their stuff has larger capacities than most built-ins of the same width.

Here is a link that might be useful: Northland's Site

Davidahn - I saw your pst about your fridge over in the Appliace forum. It did make me look at some Northland models, but then I read about them being loud. And my house is very open on the 1st floor and I didn't want to hear a fridge humming away. So, are they loud or not?

So I have an update. We were laying in bed talking about a Wolf Range vs BlueStar..he just wants me to pick one and we'll buy it. I want to talk about it with him. He hates "hyper focusing" on one item. LOL. Then he said that if we go with the BS, we can ask that store if they have a fridge that "meets my criteria" and maybe they will give us a better deal if we are buying 2 big appliances....the point here is that he is conceding, right?? He's acknowledging that whatever fridge he wants needs to be agreed to by me.

So now I still need to figure out Wolf or BS? I like the look of the Wolf better, but the burners on the BS seem pretty cool.

Davidahn - I saw your pst about your fridge over in the Appliace forum. It did make me look at some Northland models, but then I read about them being loud. And my house is very open on the 1st floor and I didn't want to hear a fridge humming away. So, are they loud or not?

So I have an update. We were laying in bed talking about a Wolf Range vs BlueStar..he just wants me to pick one and we'll buy it. I want to talk about it with him. He hates "hyper focusing" on one item. LOL. Then he said that if we go with the BS, we can ask that store if they have a fridge that "meets my criteria" and maybe they will give us a better deal if we are buying 2 big appliances....the point here is that he is conceding, right?? He's acknowledging that whatever fridge he wants needs to be agreed to by me.

So now I still need to figure out Wolf or BS? I like the look of the Wolf better, but the burners on the BS seem pretty cool.

This post just reminded me of a thread from WAY back about dealing with spouses during remodeling. Didn't one of the regular posters confess that throughout the entire process she made the effort to never go longer than 2 days without having sex with her DH?

I can't remember who it was, but not a fly-by-night poster, someone who was here daily and was respected and always helpful, so no one accused her of BS. But she swore he never complained, not once, through the entire project. And she almost always got what she wanted in the kitchen. ;) It turned into a very funny thread.

Controlfreakecs - I'll try it!

Lol controlfreakecs. Mind you, every 2 days for months on end, hmmm ... that's a tough one but I'd probably have to plump for the maple cabs and big ass fridge. :-) :-)

@khallock, I will be able to tell you either this weekend or early next week whether the compressors are loud or not; the compressors have arrived but haven't been installed yet.

I'm guessing from your hubby's newfound positivity that you were already following controlfreakecs's advice. Work it, girl! My wife could have gotten her way a lot more, if you know what I mean...

OK... more confession time. More examples of what a nightmare husband I am: my wife wanted 12x24 staggered subway tile on the floors and showers, I "talked" her into a straight pattern. Now I'm going to "talk" her out of staggered backsplash subway 3x6 glass tile and into laying them straight. Why do I care so much about esthetics?!?

In my defense, eventually when she gets used to it, she'll love what I've chosen. My wife's preferences aren't dependent on esthetics or even tastes but on what she's gotten used to. For example, she always loves her old car better for 1-2 years after she buys a new car.

David--

I see the moniker "controlfreakecs" is taken, but there must have been other variations you could have used.

LOL, May!! I have to tell you, that my DH thinks I am a total control freak and that's why I chose that moniker, but after being here at the kitchen forum for a while, I realized that in comparison, the name doesn't suit me at all! :)

I totally totally remember that thread, took the advice, though can't remember the original posters name. And for what's it worth.... in the end we both got what we wanted.

I have to chuckle a little at all the outrage over the size, because these are not a humungous fridge unit, but instead, a moderate to small-sized fridge and a separate upright freezer of the same size. So actually less capacity, total, than for those with a standard 36" fridge and separate freezer.

We have 2 of these all-fridges and 1 all-freezer in our kitchen (plus another freezer elsewhere now) to fulfill the needs of our, currently, 9-person household. You could easily fill a 32-inch fridge for 4 people, I think, because its narrower width and smaller overall height (not counting trim pieces) make it close to the capacity of the fridge section in a 36" fridge with freezer.

Putting them together with the trim kit makes them look like a huge, built-in, high-end unit and that's the illusion Elux is going for, but at a comparatively affordable price. (Ours were under $1500 per piece, and trim kits would've added another couple hundred... So both are about the same as a 36" fridge...Not anything like prices of high end built-ins). They are Energy Star rated. (Northland was not, back when we looked, anyway.)

I agree that on your wall, you're giving up things and adding expense by moving the doorway. Did you previously plan to have a full freezer somewhere anyway? If so, this would just be in place of that, and not adding any fridge or freezer space. If you don't need a full freezer, that would be another consideration, and I'd worry more about keeping the freezer full than the fridge.

As LiveWire suggested, you could put the freezer unit elsewhere and 'build in' the fridge on that wall for your hubs, which would give you a few additional inches for cabinets there. The pain would be that you'd have no freezer space at all in the kitchen --unless you added freezer drawers in the pantry cabinet space.

The other issue with doing that, though, (Having only the fridge in the kitchen) is that the door swing of the fridge would be wrong for your layout, and the doors are not reversible.

Well seeing as how we dont actually have a separate pantry space, putting a freezer in the pantry is out of the question.

We do have a chest freezer, in the basement. Its plugged in, but we hardly ever use it. It has stuff in there from years ago. sometimes we might buy some frozen pizzas that we cant fit into our current side by side fridge and instead we store them down there. We should just clean it out. DH's reasoning for this huge model was we could get rid of the one int he basement. But I dont know why that matters. Its not taking up important space.

You said your DH suggested recessing into mudroom/bath. Assuming heâÂÂs doing the work, thatâÂÂs quite a bit of rearranging (unless itâÂÂs not)⦠I agree donâÂÂt bring it up and maybe it will pass, but if he does? Maybe you could say-- "oh I was thinking about how that will go into the bathroom, and while youâÂÂre in there, I was thinking you could build some storage/shelving/ cabinets/ a spa⦠the suggestion of a whole new project would give my husband pause.

A designer friend of mine (not really a friend, but I plan to become her new best friend, since I need kitchen help) had mentioned the coated cabinets? I donâÂÂt want to say plastic-coated, but they kind of are⦠I thought she would think they were tacky, but she said theyâÂÂre very durable and sheâÂÂs recommended them to lots of clients⦠have you looked at those? Maybe that would be a solution to the ease of cleaning white cabinets?

WeâÂÂre restoring an old house, and doing ALL of it ourselves. I cannot imagine much else that matches the stress on a marriage⦠The constant, project-related mess/dirt/chaos has worn me out. Even just the planning has become unpleasant. Our kitchen is next, and I am dreading everything about it. At this point I just want to keep it, despite it being hideous.

Here is a link that might be useful: My thoughts on marriage and house-renovation.

It is here:http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/kitchbath/msg0117015112540.html maybe 2/5 the way down.

Here is a link that might be useful: Operation S E X

We plan a 30" fridge/24" freezer combo (Thermador Freedom columns), and there are only two of us. The worst of it is that we managed quite well with about 12 cu ft fridge when we lived in the UK (we did have a 14 cu ft chest freezer in the garage) - living in the USA corrupts one so.

Laxsupermom. Sex every 36 hours.

@mayflowers, I wasn't aware I was supposed to be THAT forthcoming with my GW handle. :) And as many control freaks as there are on GW, I'm pretty sure most of the good ones are taken: anal_retentive#1, OCDremodeler, kitchen_perfectionist... I'll just stick with davidahn.

I'm just trying to make OP feel better. I really am as bad as my confessions at times, but between my OCPD moments, I'm a pretty swell guy. Just ask my 2 friends! (One of them is even human.)

Just a quick update.

I dropped the kitchen subject for awhile. I even said we should put it off for a bit since DH is feeling a bit overwhelmed lately. But this weekend he declared he is ready to go gung-ho. He even said the kitchen remodel was the one thing he was looking forward to this spring.

Yesterday he wanted to go to Lowes at lunch and just purchase the cabinets. I said lets just go and iron some layout things out and then sit on the plan for a few more days. The plan was still showing a 36" fridge. So yesterday he was ready to purchase the cabinets with that plan. Then we got home and he started raging about how he wants one thing - a separate fridge/freezer. So we argued again about the size of said fridge/freezer. Called off the remodel again. He said if i lose my 36" range he will lose the big fridge. Now this morning he says forget the fridge. So we're close I think.

breezy... supermom's was one of my favorite threads of all time. So much useful information available on GW!

From a efficiency perspective, a separate fridge and freezer are more energy efficient. I wanted that as well and I have a smallish 10ft wide galley. I went with a 30in all-fridge and a small 24in freezer drawer so that I could have a bit of counter above. Is that a possibility?

I say compromise if his heart is set. Some decisions are practical and some are just gotta have it. So go with 30-24" wide models and ditch the freezer in the basement which right now is an incredible waste of space. If you wouldn't fill a 36" wide model then 24" should be just about right! That way he gets to have something he feels awesome about (the fridge) and you get to have something you feel awesome about (the range). Plus maybe you'll use the freezer a lot more if it's within easy reach. That corner to L of range can easily take a pantry.

The good news is if he comes to his senses you can easily put a pantry in that space later.

I'm letting DH put a bar fridge in our kitchen even though IMO we SO don't need it at all. And in return he's letting me not do an OTR micro even though he SO doesn't think we need a separate micro at all.

On the other hand, I think you should make a push for those white cabs! Fridge can be a bargaining point! He gets something impractical he longs for and so do you.

Hmm..

Have you considered bargaining with a kegerator?

Let's see.
You get the 36" stove.
He gets maple cabs.
(Your turn)
You get the white cabs.
He gets a gigantic fridge.
You get....

I agree that this sounds like some weird pissing contest.

raging and a lot of back and forth negotiations. Doesn't sound like you're close to me. Sounds like you guys have some issues. Maybe you should put it off for awhile and try and get to the bottom of why he's treating it as a contest he has to win. And if he gives in how long will he be holding it over your head and if you give in how long will you resent it?

And what's the latest on cabinet color? is he Ok with white o still wanting to put in stained similar to what you already have?

LOL. I guess you're right, we arent close! We are definitely not getting white cabinets. Although he said SOMEDAY we could paint these ones white. SOMEDAY. which means in 20 years...

I am OK with maple cabinets.

We'll talk about the fridge again. I'd be OK with up to a 60" fridge. The problem is that he doesnt want to pay the $$ for a big fridge that is decent. He just wants that Electrolux model which is like $5500 for 2 32" units.

And it has to be side by side and they HAVE to be separate units. I've tried getting him to consider a 48" built in fridge but he wont consider those since the freezer is smaller than the fridge. Any of the 24" or 30" all-freezer models are too much money. Except for the Whirlpool sidekicks, but those get kind of bad reviews from what I can see.

And does he still want the island to stay where it is?

island - He thinks the island is too big!

I know what I would do.....I would toss the whole project in his lap and tell him to do it all himself, but if it ends up looks bad then he will be the one to blame and, trust me, there will be enough blame for all eternity. That usually takes care of the problem very nicely.

khallock, I'm glad you're still able to LOL. I'd say someone has control issues. I'm inclined to agree with jerzeegirl, although I can't see him accepting any blame. Sometimes I envy people with partners; sometimes I don't.

Oh, this thread is great. Sorry khallock about the marital drama. Nothing like a reno to bring out the worst in both spouses.

My DH and I remodeled after a house fire. We were under tremendous schedule pressure and are very different in how we process decisions. Plus he is color blind, not great at visualizing spaces and prefers to be a nay-sayer rather than idea proposer. Fun times!

We also went round and round about the fridge. I really loved the columns and we desperately needed more freezer space than we could get in a standard 36". We agreed on a counterdepth appliance but struggled for a long time over what to buy. The budget was what finally killed the columns for us. We ended up with a 42" Thermador side-by-side, and we still grumble about the freezer size.

My DH was the one who fell in love with the Wolf 36" cooktop and I just went with it. I don't regret it, but I didn't have strong opinions about it otherwise.

The biggest conflict we had in the kitchen remodel was over the backsplash design. I chose a colorful tile early on and then played around with countless patterns. He was very firmly fixed on having a traditional, regular, repetitive pattern and I was not. I posted pics here and took a vote and the winner was a random pattern, which I liked best too. Other more experienced designers here helped me understand why it was more appealing and gave me some words to use to explain it to my DH.

I insisted that we would have a random pattern, trying to explain why it made sense. He was very unhappy. I held my ground and the backsplash is awesome. Now, whenever we have guests, he takes them right into the kitchen and says "My wife designed this. Isn't it great?"

Establish your shared vision for this kitchen. Make a mood board. Learn to use a 3D sketching software so you can play with different things like the fridge, etc. And accept the fact that sometimes you are just going to have to stand your ground.