Ah-hah! Im glad I measured the yeast now. I thought maybe there was a difference in brands, but if mfrs did that, it would mess up so many recipes that call for 1 packet. I waited 2 hours last night (yawn) before putting the bowl in the refrigerator but I didnt see much rising then. I used warm water and covered the bowl all around with some towels to keep it warmer. I would have left it out but I could not stay awake any longer. Since I have the baking stone I was not going to use parchment, thinking parchment might affect the crisp crust the porous baking stone is supposed to be good for. I have corn meal around (somewhere). But if parchment makes no difference to that tell me. I dont think I have an instant read thermometer but have the kind with a spike that you stick into meat, and my husband has this fancy gadget with a beam he got as a prize at work: you aim it at a surface (like the grill) and it tells you the temperature. But room temperature is easy enough to tell. Though it wont be warmer than 65 F in this house. Front of the stove is a smart idea. terrapots, I will think of your "Shadow" while mine sits next to me. Her blanket is a foot to the right of the keyboard but if she feels neglected she starts encroaching on the mouse. If I still dont give her enough attention she will stand between the keyboard and the monitor or walk on the keyboard. Thanks for the tips!

FYI... 'Experts' indicate the ideal temperature range for a mixed dough is usually 76 to 80F. Peter Reinhart states in "Crust and Crumb" that "dough temperature increases about one degree per every minute of kneading or two degrees per minute if kneading in a medium-speed mixer. Jeffrey Hamelman ("BREAD" A Baker's Book of Techniques and Recipes): "For the most part, the temperature zone that works best, particularly for wheat-based breads, is 75° to 78°F." To complicate things even more, there is a whole set of calculations you can use to figure your dough temperature based on the type of mixing method you use (straight dough or pre-ferment), as well as ambient room temperature, flour temperature, etc... If you use a straight dough method and you want your dough to be 76°F you multiply 76 by 3; if there is a pre-ferment method used (which I suggest using for freshly-milled flour) multiply 76 by 4. Examples... Using the straight dough method: 76°F x 3 = 228° (Total temperature factor) Minus flour temperature - 72°F Minus room temperature - 68°F Minus friction factor - 26°F = Water temperature 62°F For the straight dough, water at 62°F gives us a final dough temperature of approximately 76°F. Pre-ferment: 78°F x 4 = 304°F Minus flour temperature - 72°F Minus room temperature - 68°F Minus pre-ferment temperature - 70°F Minus friction factor - 26°F = Water temperature - 68°F Friction Factor: For doughs that mix for 3 minutes on first speed and 3 or 4 minutes on second, the friction factor for most mixers is in the range of 24° to 28°F. "Factors that affect the amount of friction generated during mixing, such as the type of mixer being used (stand, spiral, oblique, or planetary), the length of mix time, the mixing speeds used, and the quantity of dough in the bowl." ------------------------------------------------------- If you work the dough too long and hard in the mixer, the gluten can begin to break apart, so check gluten development by doing a windowpane (or membrane) test. If the dough is stringy and stretchy and sticks to your hands, the dough is probably over-mixed and broken. This isn't the same thing as being too wet. If the dough tears, instead of having an elastic texture, the most common reason for this is under-mixing the dough. ----------------------------------------------------- Another possibility... There is a substance in wheat germ called Glutathione, which breaks down the gluten. By adding an acidic ingredient (ascorbic acid, lemon juice, vinegar) to whole wheat yeast breads, it will counteract the negative effects of Glutathione. I use 1/8 t. ascorbic acid per loaf for this purpose. Ascorbic acid (aka vitamin C) not only helps prevent the gluten bonds from breaking down; but it will help repair gluten bonds that have already been broken. Ascorbic acid also helps sustain the leavening of bread loaves during baking and promotes yeast growth so the yeast works longer and faster. -------------------------------------------------- When the top crust separates (shelling): -the dough was over-mixed -top dried out during rising (use plastic wrap instead of a towel) -oven temperature too low -too much yeast in the recipe -------------------------------------------------------- You may want to do a protein test on your wheat - it can be lower or higher in protein than what you are accustomed to using. I've found this true with Prairie Gold wheat, which I've used a lot of over the years. The local hard white winter wheat I purchase I also know the protein level (13.1%). This is the same wheat King Arthur Flour has milled into their Whole White Wheat Flour, so they have strict protein standards. I've worked with wheat that had 16% protein, and you have to do a LOT more kneading to develop that much protein. How to check protein level: Measure 2 cups plus 1-T. flour (measure by scooping a dry measuring cup into the flour, filling it, and slightly packing the flour as you level it off against the side of the flour container). Add it to a food processor with the steel knife. Add 1-cup of water. Process for about 30 seconds. If your flour is high protein (somewhere around 13-14%) it will absorb 1 cup of water producing a sticky dough ball when processed for 30-seconds in the workbowl of a food processor with the steel knife. If the dough ball looks somewhat "loose", then you may need to add vital wheat gluten to the flour to increase the protein, or reduce the mixing time and see if you get better results. Hope there is something there that helps you out... ~Grainlady

Hi Trudy: I didn't have time to separate everything so, I put in the whole Recipe and some instructions. You can make it as thin as you want. They like a thicker end Crust here, that is Crispy, tender. Lou : An alterative to baking on a stone is to use pans. A 12 inch round pizza will take from 8 to 12 ounces of dough. According to thickness you want. After the dough is made weigh it out and roll into balls. Oil the pans and place a dough ball in the pan and flatten slightly, working the dough towards the side of the pan, with the palms. Then let it rest a few minutes. Repeat this every so often until the dough reaches the side and up, enough for a crust about ½ inch. Let it raise slightly , pinch the dough all over, with a fork and put into the oven to bake at 400 deg. If it bubbles while baking pinch it with a fork again. When light tan specks show ,take them out onto a rack to cool fast. Then you can use them right away or freeze , to use later. When cooking the Pizza, place the Pre Baked dough back in the oiled pan , Or cook on your Stone. put a latel of sauce on the dough and swish it around, sprinkle some Parmesan or Romano , put it in the oven for a few minutes. Take it out and spread the topping of your choice and the Cheese Topping. A good topping cheese is a mixture of Mozzarella and Provolone chopped and mixed. The provolone gives it a good flavor and doesn't get like rubber when it cools. I use all Provolone. A little trick for baking. Keep a cup of water and brush handy, to baste parts that are cooking too fast. If you can get new metal pans, (uncoated) they have to be cured in the oven, so they won't stick. Coat them with oil and bake them for at least 6 hours. Never clean them with soap and water. Just rinse with water & wipe with a paper towel. Dough recipe: 1 cup of warm water (not hot) 1 Package of Active Dry Yeast 1 tablesps sugar ,in a half cup of warm water 1/4 Cup of Veg. Oil 1 teasp.Salt About 3 1/2 cups AP Flour ½ cup of Whole wheat flour or up to 1 cup Place in a mixing bowl, the Water, 1 cup of flour, wheat flour , yeast if risen Add the oil and salt and more flour. Add enough flour to make a soft ball of dough, that doesn't stick to your hands. Knead until smooth. Put it back in the bowl , Smooth side up and Rub on some Veg. Oil Cover and set in a warm place to rise until it doubles in bulk. I put it in a warm oven, Covered with a damp towel. It rises in about 1 hour. When doubled, punch it down and knead it well. Divide into Balls , about 11 to 12 ounces and place in oiled pans. 12" round Dough should be about 3/16 " thick on the bottom and about ½" around the edge. For Sicilian Pizza , I used most of the dough in a 11" X 16" pan Follow the previous instructions. Good luck, Lou

I've been reading these and all of trailrunner's post. They are just great. All the hints were great. I bake bread out of boredom, I rarely use a recipe, for better or worse and like the wet doughs as well as quicker higher yeast doughs for pizza. Someday I'll get that "super peel" with the cloth belt thingy. I am forced to pre-cook my thin pizza crusts without one- My favorite bread is an olive bread that is made locally in the East Bay and sold now only at the local Berkeley farmer's market- you can go to their bakery, and they will sell stuff to you, but it's not a store front, no sales help, no hours- if they are there they'll sell it to you- they're also fresh pasta makers- 'Phoenix Pastificio'- if you're ever in the area. I've never tried to make that bread, it's almost Holy to me...( although I know he uses a biga and those black Kalamata olives). It has a thin almost black burnt crust, with large ciabatta holes to the crumb and flavor to die for.