Marrilyn,

I remember when I first got my first FL many years ago, I was sort of non-plussed because I thought it couldn't possibly be doing a great job with so little water, and I was peeved because I had to change from my then-current fave detergent to another product. There was no forum back then, so I wasn't sufferng from overly high-expectations, but I still had high standards for my laundry and I wasn't sure the machines were meeting them.

Nowadays, I do prefer FL's, though and I would like to help you get the most out of yours. My machines are Euro models so they are not the same as a Duet, but I think your machine is a good quality one and I believe it will give you good satisfaction.

Here's the first things I would do:

First check to make sure your hot and cold lines are correctly connected. You would be surprised how many times that turns out to be a problem, and obviously if they were incorrectly set up your machine would have a challenge getting things as clean as possible.

The next issue would be to experiment with smaller loads. Too-large loads can result in less than perfect cleaning and rinsing. To establish a real departure from your current regimen, do loads half the size of the ones you have been doing. I think this would be way too much smaller than you need to go on a regular basis, but it will help you identify if the load-size is an issue. If the clothes get clean with smaller loads, then gradually work back up until you find the threshold where cleaning results drop off. (Expect the threshold to be different for different kinds of clothing, both fabric types and sizes and soil level.)

The next thing would be to ask if you used the same detergents before? If not, then you might try a reduced dose of your old products (assuming no change in water source). Although one is "supposed" to use only HE products, sometimes HE products, for one reason or another don't work well with your water at any dosing rate. If you find this is so, then use whatever detergent you need to, to get good cleaning. I never use an HE product (and haven't for more than 15-years of FL use) and I have no issues related to that. It's not that I am being deliberately contrary, but for my water and my stuff other products do better. What cleans your clothes really well, will also be probably be fine with your washer. I find ordinary, name-brand low-sudsing powders work particularly well, but you will have to do some experiments to decide what's best for you.

The next item is for stain removal. NO machine (and I have fancy-schmancy - and touted as supreme stain fighting machines- Mieles) can remove all stains 100% of the time, guaranteed. This is simply because the machine can't tell if the stain is sufficiently shifted before moving on to the rest of the cycle, running the risk of inadvertently setting it. If it's an important article of clothing, I always pretreat and rinse before washing. If it's something like playclothes where it would be nice, but not essential, to remove the stain then you can go ahead and let the washer take a stab at it.

The stain-fighting cycles have been oversold, IMO. However there is a use for the whitest-white, or so-called stain treat cycles, they do provide a longer, more aggressive wash action, and is some cases a stepped temperature profile, that will help keep white things tidy and even reverse some use and age-related yellowing. But in many cases these would not be appropriate for normal colored clothing, staned or not.

The final thing is: does your machine have an internal heater? If not you might try some cautious experiments with a hotter temp than you've been using. Because of the much smaller volume of water being used in FLs, water that is heated only by your domestic hot water heater sometimes doesn't get as hot as you might think, and then promptly cools off even more in the long cycles in the machines. This is a significant difference between FLS and TLs, which have a much larger volume of water, which therefore stays warmer during the wash phase. If your machine has a heater, ignore this, but if not, try using the next hotter temp setting than you have been using.

I hope I have given you some initial strategies to try: i.e. Check hoses; temporarily reduce load sizes; try a reduced dose of your old detergent if it performed well; pre-treat to removal any particularly important stains, and use hotter water etc., to help you feel more satisfied with in washing results in FLs.

I hope this helps! I am sure other owners of your amchine will chime in. A period of "after the honeymoon" questioning about FLs is pretty common, so you're not experiencing anything out of the ordinary. I'm pretty confident an excellent washing regimen can be devised and you will be very happy with your machines, in the end. It just may take a litte experimenting to get there.

Molly~

If you are using vinegar as a substitute for fabric softener, you should be putting it in the fabric softener area, not the bleach compartment. Try that, and see if the deodorant smells go away.

You might also need to use hotter water for those clothes, deodorant is oil or wax based and may not be coming out of your clothes in cool water.

Marrilyn,

Don't get discouraged. It sometimes takes a little time to figure out what works best when you switch from a TL to a FL. Molly always has lots of helpful advice, and gave you several good suggestions.

My suggestion would be to use a longer or more aggressive wash cycle. Instead of using the normal cycle, try using the whitest whites, and select the heavy soil level to increase the wash time. Unlike in a TL washer where the Normal cycle is often the most aggressive, on the Duets, the normal cycle has a slightly slower tumble speed and longer pauses in the tumbling than the Heavy duty/Whitest Whites cycles. You can change the temp to warm on the Whitest Whites cycle if you are washing items that you don't want washed in hot.

I am not sure if you washer has a heater, but if it does it will have a sanitary cycle. You might want to try using that cycle for your whites. If your washer does not have a heater, try using hot for smelly colored clothing instead of warm. The wash won't be as hot as you might expect.

Even if you smell the detergent on the clean clothes, it doesn't mean that you used too much detergent. The scent is made to linger a bit. If you don't like the smell, perhaps an unscented detergent would be better.

Some people are able to get good results with just a little detergent, but that may not work for your water/soil/load conditions. You may want to experiment with using more detergent.

Good Luck! Let us know how you make out.

Joe

Oh Evaperconti, great catch!

You correctly noted the OP was putting the vinegar in the bleach compartment. I completely missed that!

Putting vinegar in the bleach compartment can compromise cleaning since it could to some degree negate the necessary alkalizing effects of detergent, leading to degraded cleaning and stain removal. Vinegar should only be used in the rinse cycle of an automatic washer.

Marrilyn, try doing as EvaP. suggested: use it only in the f/s compartment so it drops with the rinse. It's ok to mix it with f/s. That single change may make a big difference for you. If not, try the other things that have been suggested.

Good luck, and please let us know how it works out.

Molly~

Thanks so much for all the suggestions.

The hot and cold are connected properly. :) My machine does have a heater. I haven't ever washed our dark clothes in hot water for fear of fading. The Cheer for colors doesn't give any recommeded water temps to use. Do you think my dark clothes would do okay (not fade) in hot water?

What do you guys use for stain treating? I have always used a Stain Stick with good luck, but maybe I should try something else.

Joe, it never occurred to me to use the Whitest Whites cycle for anything but whites! :) I guess I didn't realize the tumbling action is different among the cycles...

I didn't realize the vinegar could affect the detergent's performance....when does the bleach dispenser dispense? During the wash or the rinse?

I'm not sure the detergent scent on the clothes really bothered me, I just thought it meant that they weren't being rinsed well enough.

I'll have to experiment with load size and types of detergent as well. I have to admit though that I'll be bummed if I find I can't do a big load....

I just did all my laundry yesterday, so it will be a couple of days before I have some more to do, but I'll let you know what happens.

Thanks, marrilyn

Far as I understand, bleach dispenses in the 1st rinse on these machines.

Marrilyn,

Since your washer has a heater, you probably won't want to wash dark clothing on hot, though washing on warm on the whitest whites cycle will turn the heater on if necessary to reach the warm temperature. The normal cycle does not use the heater even if the wash water temp is too low. Due to various conditions, such as your hot and cold water temps, distance the washer is from the hot water heater, wash temp, load size, and the way the washer fills, the wash water temp may not actually be as warm or hot as it should be for good cleaning results. Selecting a cycle that utilizes the heater, like the whitest whites cycle, should give you better results.

If you are really curious of the wash water temp, wait until the washer stops filling, pause the machine and open the door. Use an instant read thermometer to check the water temp.

Dadoes is correct, the bleach is dispensed in the first rinse. You should always select an extra rinse when using bleach so that it is properly rinsed away.

I have used a stain stick successfully, as well as shout.

I have tried many HE detergents, and am not too impressed with cheers ability to get stains/spots out of things. I do use it for dark clothing because it does not have optical brighteners, but I don't expect much out of it. The powder sears detergent, sold in the paint department, is inexpensive, and has less optical brighteners than some other brands. Of the mainstream detergents, I have found that HE Tide, both liquid and powder, work very well for me, as well as HE Wisk. They are good at removing stains w/o pretreating, though if I have stained items, I will use the heavy soil setting to increase the wash time.

I believe your washer's Heavy Duty cycle has a built in stain treat function. It starts will warm water, and then heats it to hot over an extended wash time. That is good to use on stubborn stains.

Joe

Oh my. Here I assumed that the heater just kicked in whenever it was needed. Sounds like it only does on certain cycles? According to my manual, the only cycle that mentions utilizing the heater is Heavy Duty. Surely it also works on Whitest Whites and Sanitary? Under the Sanitary section it just says to be sure my hot water heater is set to 120. So even if I set the temp to "hot" that doesn't mean the heater will be used? Big sigh.

I suppose I will do the thermometer test to see. Or would they tell me if I called Whirlpool?

Thanks so much for all this helpful info, marrilyn

Marrilyn, the reason for checking the temperature as Joe describes is to determine what is the temperature reaching the machine *without* the machine's heater being involved. That is related to the setting of your water heater and the plumbing *distance* between the water heater and your washer. Whirlpool can't answer any questions about that. :-)

Any standing cold water in the supply line must be cleared before water from the tank reaches the machine. If your water heater is a long distance from the washer, that could be half the fill being cold/cool before hot water gets there. Thus the reason for using a cycle that involves the machine's built-in heater.

LOL. :) What I wanted to call Whirlpool about was to clarify exactly which cycles engage the built in heater, because the manual only mentions it with Heavy Duty cycle.

I was assuming if I set the temp to warm or hot, the heater would warm it up the correct temp no matter what cycle I was using.

I have never thought so much about laundry in my life! :)

Thanks, marrilyn

I have the Maytag Neptune front load washer and dryer, purchased in May 1999. This is the second model Neptunes by Maytag. Bleach is added during the last two minutes of the WASH cycle. Maytag says they had done a study and found that adding bleach at this time was more effective. Personally, I usually add a small amount of bleach at the beginning of the wash cycle. I always get great results.

If you don't want to use bleach (for ecological reasons or, in my case, because the smell of it triggers my asthma) does Maytag offer an alternative? Or does anyone with a FL know of an effective alternative?

Would the more benign oxygen bleaches or maybe Borax work?

pinktoes,
there are alternatives to using bleach, but it all depends on what your desired result is. To sanitize clothes, sheets and towels you can just pick a hotter cycle on a FL. That will do the job (killing mites, fungi, and bacteria) without the use of bleach. To get whites whiter, you can use the oxgygen based additives or borax. Baking soda or washing soda help eliminating bad odors as well.
It is very possible to get good cleaning results without ever using bleach, especially with a FL.
I don't have asthma, but the smell of chlorine just makes me sick. I have tried it out a few times, but I don't like it at all. In Europe, where FLs have been used for over 50 years now, people don't normally use chlorine bleach.
Hope this helps!