Did you call Miele and ask them? Customer service was very helpful to me.

Rob

If you could narrow your questions, you might get some replies. I have lots of info to share just not enough time to write a 2 hour post. Is there anything specific you want to know? Also, I may suggest running some cycles without clothes so you can observe the machine's behavior.

Generally, the cycle you choose controls wash rhythms (there are a few that I can see - - normal, delicates, handwash, study), wash and rinse water level (normal, wrinkle free rinsing, handwash, sturdy, and delicates), and cycle durations.

Normal uses the standard wash rhythm with a sudings phase that slighly lowers the drum spin in order increase rubbing action. Delicates is a slower drum revolution together with lots of water. And handwash programs use single revolution turns with long soak period in between each revolution.

Normal water levels are the lowest, while Wrinkle Free uses high water levels in the rinse phase. Delicates uses the highest water levels in both wash and rinse phases; and handwash cycles use slighly less water than delicates. I think the reason is that extra water causes more cusioning of the clothes to make for a more gentle wash action in these more delicate cycles.

With large loads in certain cycles, the machine uses "spin clean" (tm) rhthyms that ramp up slowly untill you are just short of a slow speed extration spin revolution. The thought here is that you extract more dirt as you pull water through the clothes to the outer drum during these mini spins. The drum stop and repeats in the opposite direction

The cycle also provides you with options (extended time, prewash, sensitive) that are permissible to use with it, as well as wash temperature and spin speed parameters. E.g. you can't use 'extended' nor can you use hot water in the SILKS program.

Thank you so much for that detailed reply!

I have observed the machine in the handwash and delicates cycle but was unsure of the different between the two... I noticed both rested the items in water in between revolutions.

Given your description the delicates cycle would likely work best on the horse and dog laudry since they are so hairy I want more water...but I wonder if the reduced agitation will still get them clean? I will have to experiment with that.

I have no laundry expertise, so things like wrinkle free and all that mean nothing to me. I am used to an old top load where I turned the dial and it washed everything basically the same way.

Ah, to a specific question.
What is the difference between Normal, Whiter White and Custom if you chose the same water temperature and final spin speed for each?

Thanks again!!

Hi Winter

For your horse and dog laundry I would suggest you you the HEAVY SOIL option which adds a prewash whose water is then drained prior to the main wash as well as SENSITIVE which add an additional rinse. These will help get rid of pet hair while giving you the temperature options and higher spin speeds you will need that aren't available in DELICATES.

WRINKLE FREE is for synthetic blends or mixed load of fabrics. The cycle automatically reduces the spin speed therby reduing wrinkling caused by high RPM spin extraction.

Between NORMAL, EXTRA WHITE, AND CUSTOM... from what I understand NORMAL doesn't kick in the water heater wheras EXTRA WHITE and CUSTOM do. CUSTOM lets you choose any cominbation of water temp, spin speed, and any options. EXTRA WHITE limits you to hotter wash temps and may have a longer cycle duration to ensure the whitest possible results. On my machine, a EXTRA WHITE hot cycle with no options in 1 hr and 13 minutes (versus 58 minutes on NORMAL).

Hmm, my W4840 on EW with same options -ext wash and sensitive- is only 6 minutes longer than Normal.

If I read your post correctly, you were like me desiring high water rinse levels (for hair) with full temp range control and Max spin, if possible.

Miele gave me access to control panel, but never cold get high rinse water, max spin and temp controls on one cycle. I tried multiple FW options for hours, but failed to find a sweet spot. Some just seemed to be duplicates or did nothing like allergy, max water level, rinse process and water plus. Miele could not explain at the tech level I could reach- i.e. manual readers only. Very frustrating.

However, If you can live with just high water rinse level, max spin and cold wash, PM me and I will explain in more detail what to change in FW. But as you might have read, this was the deal killer for me. You just have a high end Frigidaire, it can to the same wash, more or less.

I disagree with crooks' assertion that the Miele W4800 is just a high end Frigidaire. Unfortunately, the Miele didn't meet her expectations and needs, but no doubt the Miele's are the finest, best built laundry products on the market.

I do think that a lot of folks tend to overthink laundry and simple work arounds would tend to satisfy most users. In the case with pet hair, while super high water levels aren't available with most cycles in the Miele, adding a prewash and an extra rinse cycle would in most cases adequately compensate for lower wash water levels.

Crooks, I am curious... what brand did you trade your Miele for and will it provide you with the features you think missing in the Miele?

Wintertime, may I add regarding spin speed... the faster the spin speed the more water that will be extracted from the fabrics (no duh). Keep in mind that high speeds may cause more wrinkling in certain fabrics (delicates, sythetics, blends).

The machine automatically tempers spin speeds in the delicates, handwash, and wrinkle free programs. Sheets, for example, I wash in the Wrinkle free cycle that uses medium speed on my W1215.

"...is just a high end Frigidaire". Actual point is would washed like any washer with cold water and no temp control beyond ATC. You can substitute any washer for Frigidaire that has no heater that cost less than the Miele. Saying high-end was admitting it was not actually not a Frigidaire build quality, unless you know of high-end one that I have not seen.

I am not holding Miele to any test that did not setup for themselves. Below is directly from W4800/W4800/T9800 sales brochure:

"The key job of a washing machine is to clean and care for your clothing. .... They must all be perfect. To get your fabrics really clean, you need a careful combination of water temperature, detergent, time and mechanical action, or lack of movement in the case of soaking periods. These variables do not remain constant. Different fabrics and stains require very different combinations."

Of course, they could try the lame approach that water temperature control is ATC not necessary a heater. And it would be very misleading. So they fall in the nothing more that a machine with ATC camp camp, which almost all FL have today. And it would be hard to argue that the "perfect" for hot water is 105F-110F. If I had to take AA actions, just this one statement would be devastating.

So my W4800/W4800 was either not really getting some of my clothes "really clean" because it did not use the heater for temp control or you don't need a heater. ATC is good enough. Effectively that is what they told me. Miele apparently thinks you don't needed it either. They told me I should be using cold wash, implied my clothes were clean enough and would not fix the heater. If one does not see the inconsistency from Miele trying to have it both ways always to their advantage, then the the W48xx will cause you no concern. I am sure they can fix the other problems over time. But it seems like on this, they are not budging and would rather return my $3k+ directly, which I assumes the authorized dealer made out like a bandit, i.e. not losing the sale from his view.

"Crooks, I am curious..." Just search on Crooks101, you will find it well documented. Probably more than was needed. I would just be repeating myself even more.

Perhaps not having a heated cycle on Normal is correct, but there are certain ways around that... I don't think other machines in the market place use active water heaters on all cycles... seems like user petulance to me. And although i can certainly understand crooks' disappointment, you have to ask if there is anything better out there. undeniably the answer is no.. the miele still is the best machine out there in spite of this issue which can easily be addressed by SIMPLY USING ANOTHER CYCLE. Hello?

Hello clueless, read the post and see what the "real" issue before you try to be a smartaxx or just being Miele troll, for Pete's sake. It is not as simple as just using another cycle. Geez. You and Miele have more in common then you know.

And yes, LG high-end machines use heater on Normal as does the HE5t with stain profile wash. Probably others, but you said none. Miele had neither the heater on normal, nor a profile wash nor 4 rinse cycles not an extra water level control. Build quality with sagging door and crazy FW that sometime opens door/sometime will not lose some of that vaunted quality image to me. Sorry. YMMV. We all have our options, if you "love" yours, bless you. I think it has unnecessary teething problem and frankly not well thought out cycles for a $3k+ W/D set. Heck, they could not even make a new dryer without after the sales modification/fix and it only partially solves the noise problem.

To Ms. Crooks

My, my... such venon and vitriol. anyway, like i said previously, the miele did not meet YOUR needs, and understandably you purchased something else that hopefully will. I've also seen other machines it is is MY opinion that it is the best built and best performing in spite of your observations.

let's not get too testy here... we are, afterall, talking about laundry not ending world hunger. the whole point of this forum is to share one's **opinions** and information, and of course to have fun being that we are the laundry maniacs we all are.

the initial poster, wintertime, had questions on a machine that she had ALREADY PURCHASED. i didn't think it was fair for you to dismiss the original question and tell her that "you just have a high end Frigidaire," which the miele certainly is not, IMO.

wintertime, let me know if you have any additional questions. i'll be happy to answer any you may have.

Umm I think Ms. Crooks is a Mr Crooks.

I am a new Miele owner and quite honestly I am ashamed to be associated with some of the laundry snobs on this forum. For God's sake people, it is a fricking washing machine. I can only imagine how you approach the rest of your life and social interaction. And crooks101 is right. If you pay 3-4k for a washer/dryer that claims to be the best in the world and be super flexible (she had the quote right there), then by God and all that is Holy it should allow one to perfectly clean saddle pads, dog beds and wedding dresses, though not all at the same time of course.

Man, the only thing worse than a Miele snob is an Asko or Bosch diehard who enables the manufacturer by justifying all the break downs and service calls.

OK

So I just replied to your other post stating that Miele was the best and the rest are for peasants...so I guess you WERE joking...are joking...I duno...Cheers.

Wintertime...how are you doing with your machine?

Hi Jerrod6,

That is the lesson - email does not convey a joke well! Our machines are doing great. Do you want to know a funny side benefit. In the basement set up my wife did all the laundry - she was very territorial about it and had some fear I would somehow "contaminate" the clothes down there. Now with a first floor Miele set up I get to do the laundry and I love doing laundry. And dash all those male stereotypes away. I do not mix whites and colors and boy can I fold with the best of them. Regarding the machines, the clothes are really coming out cleaner. There is indeed a noticable difference - thank God.

Thanks,

Deke

Ha. I can't believe this turned into a thread filled with such vitroil!

To clear things up, I do love my machine. I can't believe how quietly it runs and how the clothes come out nearly dry after a fast spin. I also agree with the poster above. The reason I bought the Miele was the flexibily; Washing horse winter turn-outs (very big and dirty) as well as my very expensive bras and silk tops. So far the machine accomplishes that even with my terrible laundry knowledge.
Also, washing the dog beds on normal works fine, they come out much cleaner than my old washer, but I find that most of the hair comes out in the dryer rather than the wash.
I haven't had a chance to do the saddle pads or dog beds yet on the delicates cycle plus sensitive ect. yet but I will get to it.
I have acutally been very busy house shopping, so haven't had much time for laundry!

Deke and Wintertime

"then by God and all that is Holy it should allow one to perfectly clean saddle pads, dog beds and wedding dresses, though not all at the same time of course." OK now I am getting your sense of humor.

Wintertime...glad things are working well for you and I have also found that the dryer is better for hair and lint especially when I forget to remove a tissue from a pocket...sometimes shows up in the washer(all over the clothes) but gets removed in the dryer.

I don't mix whites with colors and don't mix darks with lights or even browns with blues....but I can't fold worth a darn....that bottom fitted sheet....Oh..look out...so I hang instead.

re - has Miele done anything wrong here and are they really just a high-end Frigidaire...

When all big FL makers settled on using a 120V 15amp circuit for their washing machines it made necessary a set of compromises. Miele obviously thought the 240V issue was a show stopper for them in the USA moving forward. As fans of better laundry performance one can question that decision, but none of us have walked the marketing and sales mile in the shoes of Miele. For most of the makers out there they seemed to compensate for 120V-15amps by leveraging the domestic hot water (DHW) supply as much as possible by using some ATC scheme to make unnecessary an internal heater for all but the hottest cycles or a profile wash cycle (where available). Even then the makers have compromised by redefining cycle temperatures. For example, a *super hot* on a Duet is defined as 120F which is basically what most DHW supplies can deliver. Even the "temperature guaranteed" use-the-internal-heater-in-all-cycles Bosch Nexxt defines hot as 125F so the internal heater needs to only heat the water about 5F over the supply temp. Plus or minus small amounts everyone is playing the same game here where only Sanitary and sometimes select other cycles are programmed to use the internal heater.

The problem with Miele is their own doing as they reasonably lead you to believe the internal heater must be used in normal cycle, even forgetting that Miele themselves claim it is used. The manual shows a normal cycle with a hot (140F) and a very warm (122F) option. Since plumbing code in much of the US defines 120F as the max tap temp of a DHW source, how could you possibly get 140F unless the machine's internal heater is used? Miele certainly isn't a high-end Frigidaire (and I have absolutely nothing against Frigidaire whatsoever) but a washing machine that sells for more than some very good used cars should at the very least work as documented. Yes, some workarounds exist but would you accept a Mercedes or BMW where the workaround for a non-functioning sound system was the inclusion of some sheet music and a pitchpipe? With a premium product at premium pricing your expectations should be at least average and accepting workarounds is less than average unless your explicitly told your really part of a beta product release.