It sounds like bad medicine to me. Doctor prescribes antibiotics without even seeing the patient, who may not have a bacterial infection. And over prescribing of antibiotics is actually everyone's business, as it helps creates strains of drug resistant bacteria, which can be a health risk for everybody.

My mother & her DH have what we call an "Elvis Doctor", meaning a doctor who prescribes anything the patient asks for. If she's got a sore throat or sniffles, they call him up and he phones in a prescription for antibiotics. I can't tell you how many times I have gotten into it with her about that, but she doesn't believe it's a big deal.

I have a compromised immune system and I have to take antibiotics frequently. I've also gotten MRSA before, and have to take heavy duty antibiotics when I get an infection, because the usual types just don't kill off the bugs. MRSA is not something to be playing around with, and it took me several rounds of antibiotics to get it out. And let me tell you, those antibiotics had some nasty side effects.

So when people take them for cold symptoms...well, that is why we now have super bugs, like MRSA.

we also have problems because people don't complete the round of antibiotics that has been properly prescribed. I can't tell you how many home health patients I went to see that "saved" a few of the meds...sometimes half ! My DB has bottles that are years old !!

You want to know their reasoning ???? So they don't have to go to the doctor and spend money on another appt and or on more meds when they get sick again....stupid ...since they didn't finish the FIRST scrip it is a foregone conclusion that they will be sick again. Even more dumb is of course the fact that they do become resistant to the med they were given and have just made sure that it won't continue to work...oh ..they have extra though of this now useless med..which they will take when they get sick ...again...sigh.

Sorry...professional rant :)

Great topic..I look forward to what others have to say. c

The over prescription of antibiotics is setting up the perfect situation for a person becoming immune to any anibiotic being of use to them should they become really sick.

I found a great ped for DD after she was born, and their practice wouldn't prescibe an antibiotic save with the following:

Positive strep culture
Posive chest/sinus film
Culture for urniary infection
Positive lyme titer

The practice was so against the over use and over prescription it was amazing. I LOVED it, and so did DH. DD has actually been on an antibiotic less times than I can count on my hands. Conversely, my neice and nephew lived on antibiotics through infancy and continue to do so into high school. They are ALWAYS sick with something. I think their ped is doing them a disservice by calling in the antibiotics.

SIL's ped will call in an antibiotic script upon receipt of a phone call from SIL with symptoms, and not only for the affected child, but a "precautionary" antibiotic script for the other child. Her ped is running a hugely successful large number of patient-based practice in our county. If he would just take the time to see the kids as opposed to parents "calling in" for an antibiotic, that may not even be the appropriate treatment. It takes every ounce of restraint I can muster not to scream into the phone when I hear these stories. Unfreakinbelievable.

Of course, I've taken antibiotics at times when I've been dx w/strep sick or had an absessed tooth. I always finish the course, but I hate taking them. In certain settings, antibiotics are the correct remedy. But not the amounts that are being prescribed today.

Many winter colds and such are viral. So when you get an antibiotic from your doctor for something viral, it's not the antibiotic that is making you better, it's your body fighting the infection. So many people misunderstand antibiotic use that it freaks me out. Antibiotics interfere with our bodies ability to fight infection in many situations. Some docs will prescribe antibiotics to a very sick adult to avoid the occurrence of pneumonia, but my GP says that's nonsense?

Great thread.

There are many people who are of the mind set that if you get sick, you go to the doctor and get some medicine. Period. Doesn't matter how minor the illness. It doesn't matter what the doctor prescribes, either. The doctor could tell them to eat raw eggs and stand on their heads, and they'd do it. The unquestioning faith in the magical curative powers of family physicians borders on superstition, imho.

This thread reminds me so of a work colleague taking time off to take her 17-year-old daughter to the pediatrician (!) for some medicine for her latest sniffle.

Just saw this article in the news. The most interesting food for thought is in the comments.

Here is a link that might be useful: antibiotic use./obesity/stroke maps

Think the issue/problem lies within the medical profession itself. I was diagnosed with a Hereditary Connective Tissue Disorder (HCTD) less than 10 years ago. I have the normal heart for a person with a HCTD, which is abnormal for most so-called normal people. During the first five years of this period I had to take antibiotics an hour before I had my teeth cleaned or any dental work. Currently my cardiologist doesn't recommend this practice anymore because the risks associated with antibiotics are greater than risk of death from heart infection. However, my cousin recently had heart valve replacement and nearly died because of their current practice.

Also if you have "fake" or replacement parts many doctors still recommend antibiotics an hour before seeing your dentist.

I read that blog daily. What we don't know is did she need antibiotics or not. Hopefully the doctor talked with her or checked her out and determined that she did, in fact, need them.

I'm with you on overuse of antibiotics. I absolutely REFUSE to take them unless you can prove I need them. I have taken very few antibiotics through the years. However, recently I had to take them for a month - and I had a terrible time with the side effects. I had a tooth to abcess and was put on antibiotics for a week. Afterwards the infection either had spread into my sinuses or I developed a sinus infection. Due to my awful mold allergy once I get one - I have a time with it. It is always two rounds of antibiotics. My ENT doctor did do a CT scan after the first round of antibiotics and could see infection still present. Better, but there was still some there. What's funny and lead him to think it could have possibly started with the tooth - was the swollen area in a nasal passage that was right above the infected tooth. Anyway - after 30 days of antibiotics, my tummy was in trouble! I had taken a probiotic the whole time but apparently the antibiotics affected the lining of my digestive system. I was even tested twice for C-Dif and h pyloria bacteria. It took a good two months for things to settle back down to "normal".

Our internist thankfully shares the same thoughts as we do on meds. He does not easily dispense of any type med without first determining a real need.

I am thankful we have modern medicines for the times they are truly needed, but I'm also thankful for a doctor who only uses them when necessary!!

Hopefully the doctor talked with her or checked her out and determined that she did, in fact, need them

Her post didn't mention an office visit or even that she talked to the doctor herself. Just that "Fortunately, our family doctor goes to our church, so my husband was able to get an antibiotic for me to take right away".

Yea, I know, but I was hoping to read between the lines. LOL She's back up and running, hasn't mentioned being sick again. I would guess her busy life caught up with her. She's a sweetie so I hope all is well. I've actually bought a few items from her.

tina

People don't understand that if you have a cold, you need to just stay home, take some cold medications if they help you any, and get some rest. A cold is viral, and antiboitics are not going to help.

I got the flu last year despite getting the flu shot, but it left me with a sinus infection, bronchitis and laryngitis from the bronchitis. For that, I had to take antibiotics. Luckily, the one course was enough to take care of all that.

Texask, American Heart revised in the past couple of years their position stand on who should take antibiotics prior to dental and surgical procedures. It's actually very few people, but those who have had heart valve replacements should take them. The risks of infection are practially non-existant for most people, but the risks of becoming antibiotic resistant are worse. I haven't taken them in several years. At one time I was told I had mitral valve prolapse, but by today's diagnostic standards I don't actually have it. Even if I did, it would not require the antibiotics according to the new position stand.

Some antibiotics can also cause permanent hearing loss.

I just started on a 10 day course of antibiotics, I began a raging sinus infection 2 days ago. I get this every 2 years and I know I have to take the antibiotics asap. I would be worried if I got it too often though.

Interesting info above, thanks all.

I have a very hard time taking an antibiotic after I had a very bad reaction (central nervous system toxicity) to Avelox, a fluoroquinolone antibiotic, for a severe sinus infection. After two and a half pills, I had temporary neuropathy symptoms (burning/stinging, deep throbbing pain, numbness), anxiety, insomnia, uncontrollable muscle twitches, suicidal thoughts, tachycardia, blood sugar issues, head pain, hard time being able to stand and walk (severe pain), eye floaters and ear ringing. Many of these symptoms took months to heal and resolve and the eye floaters and ear ringing remain after four years. Doctors didn't believe me at first, and it was a very scary and extremely painful first few months of recovery as some people heal from the reactions, and others are permanently damaged to some degree.

Reaction to this family of antibiotics may be somewhat rare, but it's been reported that you can take them and be fine and then the next or third or forth time you take them have a reaction, and you can have a delayed reaction to them that can start even a month after finishing the course.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adverse_effects_of_fluoroquinolones

PBS special on the dangers of the fluroquinolone antibiotics

Facebook has a few support pages/groups with tons of info and victims stories, it can be difficult to read.

http://www.facebook.com/FluoroquinoloneToxicity

Victims Stories

I knew that antibiotics could cause the typical allergic reactions, but I had no idea that some could cause severe physical pain and disability until I took Avelox.

Roo - that's scary!!! Someone asked me if I had taken that drug for sinus infections. I never had them till a few years ago and only about every 2 years (longer in between this time as I'm back on desensitization therapy). I don't think I want to try that one! Years ago I had a neuromuscular reaction to Cipro - thank goodness the pharmacist understood what was happening and told me to quit taking them and contact my doctor. It's weird to lay in bed and watch your arm move involuntarily. I'm allergic to sulfa drugs and erythamiacin (sp?) but haven't had those since childhood. I've really only been prescribed a few different antibiotics in my lifetime.

Yeah they're not fun, some of the common fluoroquinolone (aka quinolones) antibiotics are Cipro, Avelox, and Levaquin. Since you had a neuromuscular reaction to Cipro, I wouldn't take any antibiotics in that family again, as next time the reaction could be more serious.

It's weird that some of the victims took Cipro or Avelox and were fine, then a few years later took the same prescribed antibiotic or different one, in that same family and had a severe reaction to it. One person I talked to said it was like the 10th time they had been prescribed a quinolone antibiotic, and all the sudden had a reaction, and now they are in a wheel chair unable to walk.

The other is the delayed reaction, where people take the whole course with no issues, and then later on start experiencing side effects. That just doesn't make sense to me and is so strange, but I know it's happened to a few of the victims.

I just don't think it's worth it to gamble with taking this family of antibiotics unless it's a life or death situation.

I hate taking antibiotics or anything unless I really have to.
Are there only certain families of antibiotics that only work for certain things? I've only ever taken penicillin and amoxicillin. Well, I take that back, a few years ago I was given Cipro but I don't remember what for.

I remember once when I needed antibiotics and the Dr. wanted to give me some new FDA approved one to try. I declined and asked for p or a and he got extremely annoyed with me. My argument was if I know they work and rarely take them, why would I need to try something different? He gave in but I switched Dr. If certain ones only work for certain things, it would've been nice for him to explain that. I really can't remember why I took the Cipro.

All the young infant and kids I see seem to ALWAYS be on antibiotics or other drugs. I wouldn't want to put my kid in harms way but not giving them anything but is that really necessary all the time???

Roobear that's terrible! I know there's a list of side effects that go with drugs but geez, that had to be scary.

Thanks Roo - I didn't realize those two were in the same family. I'll keep that in mind!

Shee - I think the two you mentioned are pretty broad spectrum and sometimes doctors prefer an antibiotic more specific to the infection. For some infections they would grow a culture before prescribing a specific antibiotic, which to me makes sense.

It's good you are thinking ahead about your baby. Some of my friends who have children have kind of "interviewed" docs for their kids, so maybe you will be able to find someone who is of the same mindset as you for your little one.

tina

Shee, my understand is that there are different levels of antibiotics. The cillins are at the lowest level but no longer have any effect on some bacteria so then other antibiotics are used. Different classes of antibiotics are also useful if a patient has an allergy.

Antibiotics are a complex issue. There are not always necessary for children. Of my 4 children, only 3 have ever had antibiotics and each child only had them once. My guess would be that 3 of those were not really necessary and they probably would have recovered well without them.

I see antibiotics as part of a larger problem. Many, many desire good health but hope to achieve said health through drugs. Some are necessary but some enter into a gray area. All pharmaceuticals (including herbal pharmaceuticals) carry the possibility of a negative reaction or possible side effects and IMO, far too few people are performing their own risk versus benefits assessment before popping their pills. It is a very personal thing but trying to get one's MIL to understand why their son has chosen not to take cholesterol medicine, there is a whole 'nother risk benefit thing going there.

Different antibiotics treat different kinds of bacteria. That is why sometimes the first drug given does not work, and why doctors will culture the bacteria so that they know exactly what they are dealing with to prescribe the correct antibiotic. Often, doctors will take the shotgun approach and prescribe a broad spectrum antibiotic that kills many different types of bacteria.

Here is a link that might be useful: Antibiotic information

Thanks for that link Terriks. I read over it quick but will be going over it more later. I didn't realize there were 'that' many kinds.

I wish that Dr. just would've explained to me the cillin weren't going to work instead of acting like a jerk. I wasn't rude to him. So instead I took a round of antibiotics that didn't help.

My pediatrician just told me her children have NEVER been on an antibiotic. I picked her practice based on this kind of mentality!

One of my mom's friends has had a "super bug" for a year. She's tried all sorts of antibiotics, but none were strong enough. Do you know what she has to try next? She's getting a donor (one she has to get herself-- a friend) and the dr. will insert the donor's fecal matter into her.

Sigh. We need to be a less clean!

I have a mild head cold (sneezing, stuffy nose, yada-yada) and my neighbor asked me if I went to the doctor for antibiotics. Huh??!!

anele, from what I understand the fecal transplants are for people who have lost too many of the good bacteria in their gut due to taking too many antibiotics. The transplant is necessary to repopulate the system with the good bacteria.

I read a study years ago that showed that on average the healthiest kids were the youngest siblings in a big family of boys. The argument was that they ingested the most germs and weren't kept as "clean" as, say, the daughter in a one child family.

I've heard of that Anele (when I was reading up on C-dif). I hope it works for your mom's friend.

tina

The youngest children can usually sleep through anything also.

Doctors are too willing to write scripts to shut up Patients that insist they need meds. Doctors also need to use more caution in the selection of antibiotic because the increase of superbugs scares the crap out of me. I work in a hospital in the pharmacy, I see the use of multiple antibiotics when one would be effective, the tendency to have a go to drug. Its ridiculous that a Pharmacist has to restrict certain antibiotics to criteria for use because of physicians not being more contentious in their selection.

I blame both.. the Patient and the Doctor.
When you're run down...like heaving a cold etc. and can watch movies you don't need antibiotics.

Here is a statement from 1987

Contact Report 216, Monday, March 16, 1987

Billy: ...what you can officially answer for me is certainly the question that you recently meant with it, when you said that the future of antibiotics looks gloomy.

Quetzal: ..My allusion referred to the fact that the earthly physicians will be forced to investigate new medicines in terms of antibiotics. This will find its reasons in the fact that more and more, the Earth people will senselessly take antibiotics and to be sure, ones that are irresponsibly prescribed by the doctors - for even the most minor of illnesses. But on the other hand, people will also be tormented more and more by antibiotic injections in all sorts of meats and other food products, causing a wide variety of bacterial strains to become resistant against antibiotics. This will happen, on the one hand, through the irresponsibility of many doctors and, on the other hand, through the fault of those who, due to their greed for profit, allow foods of all kinds to be filled with antibiotics, as this has already been the case for quite some time in all industrialized countries, in which animals are bred for slaughter and foods of all kinds are produced in order to be placed on the consumer market and sold to the consumers. These, then, are the ones who become impaired in their immune systems by the antibiotic-impregnated food and who become infected with bacterial strains, against which there are no longer possibilities for defense. In particular, multi-resistant germs or bacteria will emerge more and more in hospitals, against which there will be almost no possibilities for defense any more or else none at all. Particularly in this regard, the bacterium Staphylococcus aureus will excel in an extremely dangerous form as an especially multi-resistant hospital germ, which is designated by the short name of MRSA....a multi-resistance will appear over time, which will result, then, only as a natural effect of the cause of antibiotic abuse. As I said, more and more antibiotics will be irresponsibly given to the patients by the doctors, and on the other hand, the people of the Earth will eat more and more antibiotic-contaminated meats of all kinds, and to be sure, meats of mammals of all kinds and also of fishes and fowls. Yet through this, more and more deaths will appear, just due to the failure of medicines or due to a lack of suitable and effective medicines. From these facts, there will already be talk very soon of an "end of the antibiotic age" among the Earth people.

BTW-- the fecal transplant did work for my mom's friend! She is a new person, though her doctor was very upset that she was not referred a year ago. She lost a year of her life!

My vet friend said they've been doing this on cows for years. She also said it's time for probiotics!

Thank you, Tina, for your good wishes!

I'm glad I saw this! So glad to hear your mom's friend did well Anele! YES! I'm a big supporter of probiotics!!

tina