Wow, that's just sad that you, the person she stole from, are the only one she knows to ask for a character reference.

I guess if I were you, I'd probably say no, that I'd supply details of her employment but not of her character. If she presses you (or if she makes you feel threatened in any way), maybe you could come up with a reference letter that is very vague and just mentions the positive aspects of what she did for you. (If I recall, she did go above and beyond on a couple occasions. ?)

If she does have a clinical "problem," like kleptomania, you wouldn't be helping her by giving her a bad reference. And if she's mentally unstable, she may take it out on you.

Like you say, you are working mostly on conjecture, and it's not up to you to decide if she deserves "another chance" at getting her license. (Of course, it is up to you to decide if you should work with her again.) The licensing board apparently thinks she should get another chance, but it's up to her to follow through.

I think that you need to use that little word. NO! Sorry, no!
What kind of character reference can you provide for someone that steals?

She is a very nice person, but you will have to nail down anything that has any value!

I DON'T WANT TO BE BOTHERED WITH THIIIISSS!
What should I do?

RUN--as fast and as far away as you can!!!
It is NOT your problem and it is NOT up to you to give her another chance!
Sometimes you have to just cut the rope and let em hang themselves!!
All the old sayings come to mind here--
Know when to fold em---
you teach people how to treat you, etc, etc
Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me!

You have already been used and abused by her--sometimes you just have to walk away from people. And yes, I have had to do this myself. It is VERY difficult, but you must do it for yourself and your own peace of mind! And do not feel guilty! YOU have a clear conscience--she, on the other hand, will probably find another "victim' very quickly once she finds out that you are not going to play her games anymore. That is how these kind of people operate.

Good luck!! (and I hope that I wasn't too harsh!) :>)

I think, I would have told her, sorry, I can't do this. I don't think my opinion would help you. Any questions would have to be answered with" I can't make a good statement about someone I don't feel is trustworth".

Moni

Does she know that you feel she has stolen money from you?
If so...asking you for a reference brings her sanity into question, in my book.

If you've never confronted her about the $25, now is the time. Simply tell her that you cannot vouch for her...and she asks why - just let it all out.

If she's admitted to you that she's stolen, then the rest of the stuff (the conjecture) means nothing. Just on that one admission alone, she's either a thief or a liar--and obviously someone who you cannot honestly vouch is of good character. You cannot give an admitted thief a character reference for working with patients.

I'd just tell her 'no', without getting into any kind of explanation at all. She'll try to talk around you, probably, but just end the conversation politely, but firmly.

Decline. You don't owe her anything - not even an explanation. It's too easy to get people like this attached to you - first it will be this instance and then it could be something else from her. Get some distance from this person.
That's my 2 cents.

I was thinking of what kind of LPN she would be.?? Her deceptive nature is really in question. I'd tell her to find someone else to ask.
Yes, she has some good traits, but stealing, over-rides them!
In other words, you're through with her! Why would she ask you for such a thing, knowing what she did in your employ?.

How did the conversation end?

It is clear that you do not think highly of her character, so of course, it would hypocritical to write the letter.

Is it just me, or does this have drug addict written all over it?
She lost her license for stealing something.. Hmm, like a stapler? office supplies? a bed pan? How about Pharmaceuticals?
If this is the case, you will probably never know the truth, because active addicts are incapable of telling the truth.
I would decide whether or not you want to deal with the $25 issue. If she asks you about the letter again, just say firmly, "I will not be writing a letter for you."
You don't have to explain it to her, and frankly, I don't think I would, I'd just want her out of my life.

Don't put yourself in a situation where the employer can come back to sue you when something goes wrong. Tell her that you just cannot do it.

if you don't want the confrontation, tell her the same thing all the big companies do:

You'll verify her employment & its terms, but it is your policy not to provide character references--bad OR good--about anyone. The liability is just too great.

Tell her your accountant / lawyer / business insurance company insisted upon it. And if you don't follow those rules, you'll lose your insurance, or your rates will go up, or something.

Seriously, no company will give a reference anymore, not even a good one. They will only release confirmable facts. If you want to get a reference about somebody, you have to ask a coworker on the sly.

FoggyJ, I feel like Al Pacino...."They just puuulll me back in!" LOL

Yeah, Uxorial, it is sad, isn't it?

AlwaysLearning, I appreciate frank and honest responses. I wouldn't say she used and abused me though. She attempted to but only temporarily got away with $25. She always tried to get me to give her more pay, but I never did. Your right, it's not up to me.

GardenSpice, my head swam for a moment because I couldn't believe my ears. Like Monica suggests, "This female must be crazy" was my first thought. I just told her I had another call coming in and I'd call her back. No, I don't want to deal with the $25 issue any more than her other problems. I got my money's worth the morning I found out about it. She was already scheduled to make two deliveries for me (in generally the same area) at 8 that morning, so I just didn't pay her. She understood that, and I hadn't spoken with her since.

SheilaJoyce, that sums it up for me right there. And, it's not just an employer but the State of Michigan. My concern was for her patients, co-workers, employer(s), but I don't want anything falling back on me either.

Okay thanx, everyone. I was looking for the reason not to do it, feeling that I would certainly want a second chance. But then, everyone would want that whether they have changed or not. Besides, it simply isn't up to me since I could never honestly stand by my own words if ever questioned.

Thanx again!

I really feel for you, bestlawn, but you know what you have to do. All the best
ivamae

I see you've already made the decision. I'd just not call her back. The chickens way out I know! LOL But if she calls you back I'd just say sorry no can do. If she asks why which I betcha she will, I'd tell her there is too much left unexplained and even if she did explain her side you have no idea if you're getting the whole story.

If a nurse gets in trouble for stealing, it's because the nurse either stole a personal possession of a patient's, or the nurse stole drugs. Either way, that nurse wouldn't be worthy of a character reference.

You asked, "And, what the heck does a character reference have to do with the "condition" anyway???"

I don't know about nurses, but my husband's profession requires licensure and he is licensed in about 20 states. His original license and some of the others require character references (the ones that didn't require references are done by reciprocity and depend on the character references for the original license).

So if she let her license lapse, I'm not at all surprised that she would have to submit new character references.

In my opinion if the licensing board requires character references, there's a reason - the license holder is in a profession that requires public trust and good character. So I'd think you have a moral obligation to the public to NOT give her a good character reference.

I agree with daisyinga completely. I worked in a shared legal office with a secretary who, we found out, had taken and used company credit cards from her former law firm. When they started digging at the current firm, she had embezzled (at last count) $20,000 from a single lawyer (on his own; not a law firm). She was let go with no charges pressed. Her prior employer and the most recent one never pressed charges or told anyone seeking references about her theft. And so it perpetuates.

Well, if she does put you down for a reference, tell the truth when you get a call from a enquiring employer. The end.

She stole from you. She stole from work. Heck no, I wouldn't give her a character. She's a liar, user and a thief.
Leslie

Toni, that's the problem with WantToRetire's scenario. You can't tell enquiring employers, no details that is. I could tell them honestly if I would ever hire her again, but that's just about all I can say.

WantToRetire, how did they find out if no one ever pressed charges?

In Ontario, when a nurse, RN,LPN loses their license, they have to meet with a board and the terms are laid out completely to them. Their name and details may also be put in a magazine that goes out to all nurses and employers. The fact that she states that she didn't know she had to complete the online course speaks for itself. Not only do they follow through completely, the nurse, should she get another job has to be mandated to let the new employer know what has happened and that employer has to write an evaluation to the College of Nurses every few months to a period of time.

I find it hard to believe that she didn't know about taking the course. Things would have been fully explained to her. Often when a nurse goes to a hearing concerning losing a license, lawyers are involved. It is like going to court....the same idea....lawyers or professionals from both sides.

Your system might not be the same as mine. I have never seen in the magazines I have read about these hearings that anyone is ever asked for an outside reference. It is always the next employer that has to do the evaluations.

The only thing I would admit to if I were you was the fact that she did work for you for "X" amount of time. I wouldn't elaborate further than that.

I got my money's worth the morning I found out about it. She was already scheduled to make two deliveries for me (in generally the same area) at 8 that morning, so I just didn't pay her. She understood that, and I hadn't spoken with her since.

So that was the last she worked for you? You just never called her again?

She lost her license for stealing something.. Hmm, like a stapler? office supplies? a bed pan? How about Pharmaceuticals?
I remember her always wanting 'more' money and the always running to the bathroom, wherever she went. My first thought that maybe she was snortin something, though I didn't hint of it here. I don't like to think the worst, but in this case there isn't much left to think. Also, you can't believe anything a druggie says, IMHO and from my experiences with them.

Sue

She asked for a character reference from someone she stole from?

So give it to her.

"Blank has worked for me and I had to terminate our relationship. I cannot in good conscience assert that she is a person of good character."

There you have it.

Bestlawn - Pure coincidence!! It was a shared office suite with 3 attorneys, 3 secretaries and a receptionist. One day, an attorney from a local city came for a meeting with my attorney. While there, she saw "her" and asked my attorney if "she" was working there. Seems the visiting attorney had been with "her" prior law firm when "she" used the firm's credit card(s). I can't remember if that's why she was let go or if she was let go and THEN took the cards. Its been a long time. In any event, my attorney told "her" attorney and his accountant started digging and found the $20k or so shortfall, at which time they stopped looking. This poor guy was struggling to put 2 kids through college and "she" was robbing him blind.

However, he had given her carte blanche with the checkbook and SIGNING CHECKS and she kept all financial records, which was just asking for trouble.

It was a nasty time; we were in a more or less open situation with no locks on the internal doors, only on the 2 doors to the main office area. We were afraid she might retaliate so had to hide all our discs and secure the computers until we could get the locks changed.

You might check with your state labor commission, or some such agency, to see just what would be an appropriate response to inquiries so as not to set yourself up for a lawsuit :-/ She sounds like she might not hesitate to make trouble for you.

You would be doing a public service by saying NO, especially for someone entrusted with the care of sick people. What if she steals pain killing drugs to a patient in agony? If one will steal one thing, you can count on them stealing others.

When my Mother was on her death bed an LPN was assigned to stay at her bedside/take her B/P every 15 minutes, etc. while arrangements were made for private nurses 24/7. Doctor called my Sis & I into the hall to discuss Mother's condition. I walked back into the room to discover this lousy thief with my Mother's purse between her ankles at the foot of the bed, taking a $20. bill. Only time in my life I ever truly wanted to physically attack someone.

She ran out with me chasing her down the hall screaming "There goes a THIEF! She was stealing from a dying woman!!!" I wanted everyone within hearing to know what kind of person was caring for patients on that floor.

(Yes, I know the purse should have been removed, but the last thing we ever thought of was our Mother very suddenly falling into a coma at age 57.)

40 years later, it still infuriates me.
Suzi

I agree with talley sue, and think that's probably your best bet and safest way out. Many, if not most, companies just will not give out personal references -good or bad-- because of the legal complications that could arise. It's just the norm not to. Confirm her employment dates or other jobs facts if needed and leave it at that.

Just my two cents. Wouldn't you have appreciated someone telling you that she was not to be trusted?

Thank you for the technical information daisyinga_gardener, Heather, and everyone. I really appreciate a better understanding of the processes.

Grandma Bonnie, the answer is yes, but it just cannot be done. It's illegal and also makes me personally liable to her. The way Talley Sue explained is the only route I can take if potential employers inquire of her. As for the character reference, I simply will not write it.

Wantoretire, great how things come to light, isn't it? She would have taken you guys, too.

GrittyMitts, I'm sorry that happened to you and your mom, or almost did. You didn't need that added headache. Hospitals and nursing homes have notorious reputations for stealing, especially people's false teeth. Is there a black market for false teeth??? What is up with that? LOL