High Efficiency detergents are supposed to have a different formulation in order to reduce foaming. Overfoaming in a front-loader will reduce the cleaning action (flop & drop) within the drum, and reduce the rinse efficiency. Computer machines may even add extra rinses to try to compensate, thereby increasing water consumption.

Here in the UK, I know of someone who had a front loader, and she bought her usual brand of "automatic" powder. Unfortunately, the manufacturer had had a production fault and had actually produced packets with the old "high-suds" powder instead.

The machine flooded her kitchen, and ultimately, she got some compensation.

I have used Dreft (for my kids clothes) for years in a front loader, and no problems. You just have to use less of it. I also use a HE soap for all other laundry. I never use powdered soap, and never will. It leaves too much residue. Some people on the other hand love it.

I thought that the Persil Powder was high efficiency,at least the ad I read for it said that. Using regular detergents also causes mold and build-up under the tub.
Just this week I read something a tech wrote about detergents and H E machines.He said "front load washers must use h e detergents" that "regular detergents are nothing but job security for repair techs".
Also said that they have found "using liquid detergents,either regular or h e in a f/load washer for an extended period will ruin the high speed spin bearing".
Reason"liquid detergents change the surface tension of water and allows detergent and moisture into the spin bearing".He also said to only use 1/4 to 1/3 the amount of detergent that the manufacturer recommends-depending on your water and soil amount.
I would think you should be fine with the Persil.How much do you use per load??

Well, I've been using a regular, powdered, non-HE detergent in my front loaders since the early 90's and I've never had a problem with oversudsing, mold, bearing failure, heater scale, corrosion, bio-flim, poor cleaning, poor rinsing, yellowed clothes or indeed, any other problem with my machines.

YMMV.

Molly~

Persil IS an HE DETERGENT!

Your repairman obviously doesn't know his stuff. I would however, switch the Dreft to a Free & Clear HE soap like Sears powder or All Free & Clear.

-JJ

Since around 1997 USA has just begun to forge into a large front loader market and we have had to learn the hard way what many Euro users have learned well ahead of us. Not only do we have to learn how to use the correct types of laundry detergents and aids, but also have to learn how to protect our huge poorly developed machines from self destruction.

I believe the use of powdered detergents in appropriate amounts has extended the life of machines that early on self destructed under the old school washing techniques for top loaders. Too much detergent, fabric softner, and especially the liquid forms spelled out disaster.

Ive used small quantities of Persil powder for about a year and a half and my Neptune is working like a champ, no smells from the machine, or left on the clothes. Im also using a heater equipped model and hot water washes when appropriate.

The learning curve continues ...

Agree with fordtech.......our entire population is learning about how to use the new HE machines. Old habits die hard.

All I can say is when I got my Duet 9400 two years ago, I read the manual and did what it said. Excellent results and no problems from the beginning. (May be the first manual I've read in my life, but glad I did.)

I've been using All Free and Clear Liquid in my FridGEmore Front loader for 3.5 years with no problem. However, All F&C is formulated for people with allergies and is supposed to be very clear rinsing and not very sudsy to start with. I've used only about 2 tablespoons, never had a problem with sudsing and the clothes are clean.

3.5 years ago All F&C wasn't rated for HE machines, then it had an HE compatible logo on the label. I haven't bought a bottle in a while (big jugs last months and months) but I think it might be rated HE by now.

I'm not sure what the regulatory guidelines are for the HE detergent rating.

I've never understood why laundramaniacs on this board maintain that liquid detergents are either no good and/or EEEEvil.

I do concur that Americans, in general, use way too much detergent, bleach and fabric softener, even in top loaders, perhaps especially in top loaders. It's that "if this much is good, then more is better" mentality.

Watching customers at a laundromat poor gobs and gobs of detergent and other laundry chemicals into over-stuffed top loaders is like watching a horror movie. I can just imagine the promo now: "In a world... where clothing is encrusted with unrinsed detergent....." (You'll have to imagine the breathless announcer's voice for yourself.)

CMC
Laundramaniac

I'm not sure what the regulatory guidelines are for the HE detergent rating.

There are none, it is not a regulated label. I think you could slap an "HE detergent" label on a bottle of Prell shampoo if you wanted.

I've never understood why laundramaniacs on this board maintain that liquid detergents are either no good and/or EEEEvil.

That would be me:-)

It is a general statement, and like all such subject to exception, but generally liquids have a higher ratio of suds to cleaning power. This has been borne out in the rare independent studies that have been done, and is consistent with reports here (most reports of detergent inadequacy here is from people using liquid and/or really cheap detergent). One amusing study found that some liquids cleaned less well than water alone!

The idea that it might actually be harmful to machines seems a bit fanciful to me.

We use liquids for special jobs - for example, delicate shirts with oil-based dirt - but long ago abandoned liquids for powder for everyday use.

Of course, if you have a detergent that works for you, then you should stick to it, whether it is liquid or powder. - DR

I wondered about the HE rating and if there were any standards.

The All F&C labels have morphed over the years from saying that the detergent was safe to use in FLs to a label that said "HE compatible" to ??? (still haven't bothered to look at the jug in the laundry room).

The All F&C concentrate called itself HE, but the manufacturer didn't automatically apply HE to "regular" All F&C liquid -- the manufactrurer was defining some difference between the two, which made me wonder if there were some kind of labeling standard. Silly me for expecting the HE label to made SENSE. :-)

I used All F&C in the old TL, too. From my experience, it was always a very low sudsing detergent.

CMC

I have used All Free & Clear for several years in my Kenmore TL. I recently saw the All Free & Clear HE in my store and bought some to test since I want a TL. All Free and Clear has never made a lot of suds , but the HE formula makes even less. If I pour a capful (2 TBSP) into my TL while it is filling it makes a very small amount of foam where the water hits. The non HE formula made enough suds (used exactly the same way in the same amount) to cover the top of the water with foam. If you are looking for the All Free & Clear HE (Small & Mighty), it looks the same as the regular but says HE on the front in silver & has a silver cap instead of clear. I buy mine at Meijer because my Jewel does not carry it. It also costs $2.00 less a bottle at Meijer, and that's when it is not on sale!

Thank you all. I will assume Persil (at a one tiny bit per load) is enough HE. My laundry is clean enough for me.

The dreft -- well I guess I have to rethink that, although I use a tiny bit of that too.

The repairman mentioned scum build up so today I checked. After maybe 5 years there is no general scum. But my colleague in laundry (once a week helper) pointed out that in the crevice of the rubber gasket is a tiny bit of black crud. She says at her house she uses a bit of dishwashing soap and some clorox with hot water once every few months on her Maytag FL. Does that sound right?

Chlorine bleach is good for the crud in the gasket. If you do not regularly use either bleach or high temps in regular wash loads, you mght also consider an ocasional cleansing cycle for the washer: use some enzymatic dishwasher powder (Cascade Complete is good) instead of detergent, and a few rags for the load, the run a load at your longest and hottest setting.

I don't know which model Maytag FL you have, but the Neptunes were legendary for susceptibility to biofilm. - DR

We've spent so much time focusing on which Bosch appliances to purchase (DW and W&D) that we neglected to note what detergents, soaps, rinse products Bosch users have found work best. Could you folks give me a recommended breakdown of soaps, dtergents, rinse aids for the following Bosch appliances:
Bosch NEXT 700 W&D
Bosch INTEGRA 500 (SHX56CO5UC)

Many Thanks!

Been using a Bosch Nexxt 3yrs now, and running strong. I use powder cheer for colors, shirts, jeans, and colored towels and have been quite happy with it. I use tide HE for the whities and really grimmy stuffs. I will some times use clorox2 for some loads and only use LCB for dish rags and cleaning rags. Back in the early 90's I use to use double power surf liquid in my T/L's. It did a great job. I kept a small box of cheer with color guard around for nice shirts only. One day by accident I put cheer in the tidy whity load and was surprised at the results. Since then I have tryed other brands and flavors and keep comming back to the same old cheer.

Ive heard arguments for/against powder and liquid for both dishwasher and laundry. As for the laundry the only evidence i've found against liquid is, it seems alot of people that use liquid do all or almost all cold washing. I ve seen the evidence of this in machines. Smells, mildew etc..

As for the dishwasher, I see alot of problems with the liquid/gels. It seems to be worse with maytags and frigidaires. Its seems most of todays low water using dishwashers dont or cant get rid of all the detergent and I see a build up in the pumps. Personaly speaking I have found the liquids didnt clean very well for me. I currently use cascade "pure rinse" Of course brand, model, water conditions, and settings all play a part. One other note on dish detergents, the shelf life of dishwasher detergent is very short. Usally about 1yr. Most stores are good about rotating stock, but when it goes on sale alot of people like to stock up. With dishwasher detergent this is not a good thing. Usally half way thru that "bargin buy" the shelf life has expired. This seems to be a bigger problem with powders.

Just my .02 cents

I have tried almost everything in laundry detergent. I don't always use HE though. I prefer to use sears HE stain fighting formula for most of my wash and Mexican Ariel for whites and tough soiled loads. Ariel has phosphates that help it work better. I don't have to use much per load which is good becasue it can become sudsy if I use more than a heaping sears scoop. I have used lquids they work fine for me but I don't like how messy and drippy they are, plus you never can get the last bit out of the bottle. of the liquids I have used Purex, Wisk and Arm & Hammer seemed best to me. I never really liked TIde for how it smells and I don't think it cleans that well for the premium price it goes for.

I am more of a powder kind of guy it too bad that the market seems to me going the other way to liquids that have super strong and funky sents. I just want clean clothes done with out mess and fuss, I don't want to smell like a big flowerly boquet or peaches and mangos, just a frest clean sent is what I like and laundry products like that are loosing shelf space these days.