you have to fess up that you contributed to the idea that she feels entitled.

This is what I get from the OP. I hate to say it, but if she is spoiled, you only have to look to yourself.
I had an issue with my daughter when she was a little bit older. We (mostly my husband) would give into her when the tears started flowing. When she was in her last year of college we were checking the prices to fly her home for Thanksgiving, as we had done every other year. Airfare was always expensive between our small city and the small city where she was in school, but this year it was over $800! I balked at paying that sum for such a very short visit, especially since she would be home for a couple of weeks at Christmas and suggested that she could visit a college friend during Thanksgiving. Then the waterworks came on. My husband said that of course we want you here for Thanksgiving, and we don't mind paying for it. I kind of blew up, and let her know that if she wanted to be an adult, she had to act like one and cut out the crying crap. She was really kind of shocked. We did end up paying for her to fly home that year at my husband's insistence, but ever since then I've noticed that she has been a lot more self reliant.

So, in addition to having a talk with your daughter, look to which of your behaviors you can change that are enabling the bratty behavior. Like making her own breakfast and lunch! She can't behave like a royal guest if she isn't being waited on.
I was pretty much a SAHM while my kids were young, but they could make their own lunch from a pretty young age. In fact they started doing their own laundry by the time they were in middle school, and actually prefer doing it themselves. I don't think that I would nix the trip to NY, because that sounds like mother/daughter time that you both enjoy. Also, it sounds like she needs to improve her driving skills, maybe in the summer if she is home that could be worked on.

I taught my kids from a very early age that 'please and thank you are the magic words'(they leaned that in kindergarten),so i've never had this problem. They weren't good at sending thank yous, but always called the grandparents/family members when getting gifts, which I though was a good enough thank you, in comparison to most of my friends kids. I didn't expect them to send a thank you to friends when they had a party, just announced a general 'thank you' when the friends were leaving.

I'm teaching my Grands good manners also~~absolutely NO 'tooting' or burping w/o an 'excuse me!' Moms and Dad(3DD's/1 son) have already instilled the thank you when getting a gift, and the older teens out-of-state always call or send a thank you card. To 'make it happen' with the Grands, I went off the charts with the parents(my kids)*informing* them manners were an *expectation*, and they needed to relate that to their kids. They have, and I really never thought I would get calls from them on my birthdays as well as Mother's Day!! They're all great kids. ;o)

Maybe you and DH need to tell her that you feel you may have failed her a bit. (There are no perfect parents.) take SOME responsibility for her behavior but tell her that when we know better, we have to do better. I have a feeling she is wonderful outside of your world.

I'll bet she even feels badly because she knows deep down that she should be doing more to help.

Good news is that Max did the dishes at the party. He is a reformed slob at 24. You have time.

Lots of good advice - time to stop babying her and treating her like a child so she can learn how to be an adult before it's too late. Working hard and being "neglected" during childhood has it's advantages as long as it's not truly neglect. Kids learn responsibility and accountability and adult like behavior by the time they're adults. I'm personlly very thankful for getting some hard work and "neglect" as a child who didn't have a SAHM. It prepared me well for life.

I blame Fred Rogers, or at least the interpretation that Mr Roger's "You are special" motto got. An inherent feeling of self worth is good. Growing up thinking that your needs always come first is not.

I will start with "please and thank you" I was approached by some tyke, I don't remember who, who said "Please I want you to let me____" I can't even remember what, but he was very persistent "I said PLEASE ____" The mother looked at me and smiled, and said "I told him that to get what he wants all he has to do is say 'Please', politely". I looked at the kid and said "NO, you may not____". Politely. He was horrified. The mother was horrified. Sometimes the answer to a polite request is still "No." People seem to have forgotten this.

The other thing "If you try, you will get what you want/achieve anything" False. You can't achieve everything you want, sorry.

The last is grade inflation. The "average" grade now in some schools is B+ ...(?). I was in a course and the syllabus said "If you hand in all assignments on time and complete all projects, you will achieve at least a C grade for the course." (It was a projects based studio course, no written exams). One girl raised her hand and said "That's not fair. I think if you hand in all your work and complete everything you should get an A". The professor said "handing in the work is the minimum requirement, and it takes more to get an A than that. Does anyone else disagree with what I wrote?"

I raised my hand and said "Yes, but I think technically someone could complete all the assignments and Still Fail, because they just really don't have the aptitude or talent of the rest of the class."

Pal you sure hit it perfectly. DH taught college chemistry for 31 years. It was amazing to watch the students change as the decades went by. He was very old school and worked hard for his degree with Nobel Prize candidates and other notable professors. There were no excuses. Do the work and study hard and even then sometimes you fail...that is the important part YOU...failed. I can't tell you how many times he has heard the students talking about the professor failing them. Never mind that they didn't come to class...didn't do the homework and didn't make up missed tests ! Every semester there would be students that said they wanted to know what was going to be on the tests so they could just study that part...hmm...so when you get out in the real world ,of course you will only be asked to do what was on the test LOL. He even had engineering students that wanted partial credit on problems. OK he would say...when the bridge you are building , out in the real world ,doesn't quite make it across the river you can explain that it goes almost all the way...sigh.

My piano instructors expected me to have prepared for my lessons. It was understood that I had practiced for my lessons. If not the rule was you were sent home...no lesson and a huge embarrassment . I was only sent home once in 8 years. When I taught piano and voice years later I tried to have my students follow that rule. It was almost impossible and not only because the children or the adult didn't cooperate. The parents were the biggest excuse makers for their kids.

The number of companies that have flourished in this country based on selling the idea that we are all winners and can draw success to ourselves by thinking positively and by wishing/hoping/praying it will be so is staggering. It is a multi-million dollar business. Corporations buy these services to promote team players and a positive attitude. Unfortunately what sounds like a great idea has been twisted into a theme that makes folks believe, as pal says, that if you want it it WILL be yours. The book Brightside is the perfect read if you want to see how the wonderful idea of positive thinking has been destroyed and misused in this country.

Sorry...I could go on and on . Your daughter is a victim of this culture as much as her friends and their families are. You may have made mistakes in the name of love but you are not the only one at fault nor are you alone. Most of us can raise our hands when asked if we gave too much to our kids. We try and do the best we can and sometimes we make mistakes. Congratulations to you for taking a good look at the situation and making a course correction ! c

Here is a link that might be useful: Brightside

She seems like a smart girl, tell her how you feel and she'll react, it might be easier than you anticipate, maybe all she needs is a little wake up call.

I sympathize with your dilemma. A lot. All around I see kids in trouble with drugs, alcohol, poor work ethic. I see families struggling to help their young adult with a mental illness like bipolar disorder, or struggles with their faith or their gender identity or sexual identity. In the grand scheme of things, leaving dirty dishes and not saying thank you sound like pretty small potatoes. But again, it's not something you want to let slide.

I would not even keep the words "punish" or "take away privileges" in my vocabulary, if I am thinking about my kids. I don't want that "punishment" attitude even creeping into my thinking. My young adults would be angry if I "punished" them for not saying thank you or leaving dirty dishes.

Instead, I try to tap into what they're going through in their lives right now. For example, if your daughter lives in a dorm then she probably understands everyone keeping the common space clean. She also should understand sitting down and talking to a roommate about differences and working them out. I would explain to her that in the past you washed up after her, but now you're used to your nice clean kitchen and you like it. Or you work now and don't want to come home to a mess in the kitchen. You'd really appreciate it if she'd clean up after herself in the common areas, and that you know she understands because that's what it should be like in the dorm. Treat her like the adult she is, like a fellow roommate who is in this home together with you. Then try humor first, before punishment. Make a funny sign to go over the sink, like "Wash your own dishes, your mother doesn't live here....oh wait, she does. Wash them anyway". Or "Save a horse, ride a cowboy....Save Judith's sanity, wash your dishes". Whatever she would think is funny. Or, just like roommates, agree on an exchange of labor if she doesn't clean up after herself. And include yourself in that agreement. For example, my daughter was exasperating me by not getting her laundry out of the washer/dryer. So we made a deal that if she left her laundry for me to deal with, she'd sing "I'm a Little Teapot", complete with motions, in exchange for my help with her laundry. There's no way you and your daughter can be mad at each other singing "I'm a Little Teapot".

With gratitude, I don't want to punish my kids for not saying thank you. I want them to feel thank you and express it. So if that's not been emphasized in the past, don't pounce on her if you neglected that part of her parenting. Instead, tie it into what she's experiencing now. She's going to be a leader at her university and work with others. She's going to be a leader in her profession. So she needs to learn to look for the positives and reinforce that in the people she's around. And tie that into home as well.

Last, please don't beat yourself up if you think you should have worked with her in some areas before now. Every parent has areas we wished we'd worked harder on. Now is your time to model something else for her - it's never too late for us to grow and change. Every day is a new day and a chance to be a better person than we were yesterday.

There is no need for these issues to be a major controversy in your home. You are simply two adults working together to make your lives better in ways that benefit both of you. If you can successfully project that attitude and she is as smart and responsible as I think, then you will both be fine.

Your frustration is palpable, I'm sorry you are going through this.

Sadly, it is obvious the girl wasn't taught to be appreciative of everything she has been given and what you do for her, and was indulged.

This statement pretty much says it all, "She was annoyed with me the morning she was leaving because I told her I had to get ready for work and couldn't fix her a sandwich for the bus."

YOU are the one working and providing for her and she should be making YOU a sandwich.

She is a grown woman.

At this age, it's probably too late to change.

The most important thing we can do for our children is to make them independent, EARLY in life, and not dependent on us to make decisions that they should be making in their own lives or to bail them out or make excuses for them when they make bad decisions.

It's regrettable, but predictable.

Most of us do the best job at being a parent that we can, at the time. No one wants to do the wrong thing.
We all fall short in one way or another.

I think you will be in for a lot of problems from an adult child that is so dependent and so entitled unless you make some serious tough love changes immediately. She is likely to not understand or accept those types of changes in your behavior.

Children learn to manipulate early, and some parents feel good when they indulge their children and when they feel their children "need" them. The problem is, those children seldom grow up and remain children, for all intents and purposes--always dependent on the parent for something and always a victim in life.

I wish you the best, and I hope your daughter comes to understand your sacrifices and understands her responsibilities as an adult.

Your frustration is palpable, I'm sorry you are going through this.

Sadly, it is obvious the girl wasn't taught to be appreciative of everything she has been given and what you do for her, and was indulged.

This statement pretty much says it all, "She was annoyed with me the morning she was leaving because I told her I had to get ready for work and couldn't fix her a sandwich for the bus."

YOU are the one working and providing for her and she should be making YOU a sandwich.

She is a grown woman.

At this age, it's probably too late to change.

The most important thing we can do for our children is to make them independent, EARLY in life, and not dependent on us to make decisions that they should be making in their own lives or to bail them out or make excuses for them when they make bad decisions.

It's regrettable, but predictable.

Most of us do the best job at being a parent that we can, at the time. No one wants to do the wrong thing.
We all fall short in one way or another.

I think you will be in for a lot of problems from an adult child that is so dependent and so entitled unless you make some serious tough love changes immediately. She is likely to not understand or accept those types of changes in your behavior.

Children learn to manipulate early, and some parents feel good when they indulge their children and when they feel their children "need" them. The problem is, those children seldom grow up and remain children, for all intents and purposes--always dependent on the parent for something and always a victim in life.

I wish you the best, and I hope your daughter comes to understand your sacrifices and understands her responsibilities as an adult.

Demi, I think your post is harsh. I think that young woman will wake up quickly.

It's not too late to change! I might have been her at one time, when I moved out and finally had my own place, I slowly became a neat freak. I was Pippi Longstockings/Harriet the Spy who over time morphed into Martha Stewart. Maybe not a good thing but I'm really clean, organized and nice now.

The most important thing we can do for our children is to make them independent, EARLY in life, and not dependent on us to make decisions that they should be making in their own lives or to bail them out or make excuses for them when they make bad decisions....I think you will be in for a lot of problems from an adult child that is so dependent and so entitled

She doesn't sound dependent to me. She lives away at college, has a leadership position in the dorm, is a liaison with the housing authority and is a research assistant as a sophomore, has good grades in a rigorous major. She sounds like a responsible young woman who makes mostly good decisions. She is probably considerate of others and knows how to be cooperative and facilitate teamwork if she is successful in those leadership roles.

She's probably used to her MOM catering to her wishes, not the rest of the world. Judith can fix that.

You taught her well.....she is simply acting as she thought she was expected to act.
Did you ever tell her that you expected her to pick up after herself? Did you ever tell her that "Thank you" was polite?
I would hope that when she visits someone, she doesn't behave like she does at home....
I wouldn't make a big deal confrontation out of it....but I would not be picking up after her. Yes....I know things will be a mess.....adn when it gets bad....simply say "Will you please put your dirty dishes in the dishwasher?" And when you do something for her and she doesn't thank you....look her straight in the eye and say "you're welcome!"
You should have done that 10 or more years ago....but...

I really don't feel like a big knock down drag our "you are so ungrateful!" blow out would make things better but may well make her very resentful.

do you REALLY pick up all her stuff without a mention?
Linda C

When my kids forgot to thank me for dinner, they had to help do the dishes whether it was their turn or not. (Mean. Lol)

Lindac, I would say I've been "reminding" her to do stuff around the house for years. She's living at school now but when she was home during the summer she was putting dishes into the dishwasher and taking them out. She would vacuum. She would clean her bathroom. But that last one was ONLY if I pushed and even then, it was done haphazardly. I have asked her many, many times to pick up her own dishes/cups/dirty laundry etc. I think what was different about this trip is that she just showed up for three days and proceeded to turn the whole place upside down. Something about all the driving and catering just crossed the line this time and I think it has to do with new expectations of me, for her. So no, I don't pick up all her stuff without a mention normally. Also, she has in the past been polite, she is polite with her friends' parents. She actually wrote a thank you note to them for taking her to NYC for the day, basically without any prompting. And she does corresponds with her grandmother who lives far away, by mail. These letters are very regular and this I encourage. I think something about home makes her revert to being five years old, just me-me-me and it's like she thinks since she's working so hard in school that she can just let it all hang out at home. We're going to skype with her this weekend -- already set that up with her Dad and I both on the call. The one thing I am not sure about is how to enforce accountability for picking up after herself. I suggested to my husband that we dock her $5 out of her allowance for every incident where she leaves things out and he refused. He says we should counter every "offense" with a chore, like: you left the milk and cereal on the counter so now you have to go vacuum something. I don't like his penalty and he says mine is too harsh...if you or anyone has a better idea, please jump in. I can't see taking away her cell phone because we use it to speak with her and she uses it for arranging study sessions and plans at school.

daisyinga, thank you for that line: she is used to her MOM catering to her wishes, etc. SO TRUE.(and her Dad too!) I know she's still learning and she really is a good kid, very responsible. For example, she took 10 credits of summer classes at the community college last summer -- almost a full semester in 6 weeks, at my suggestion both to save money -- cheaper tuition at the local CC-- and get through some general requirements. Plus she managed to work part-time as a camp counselor. In all these interactions she seems to do well with people and although I know it sounds otherwise from my issues with her, is very level headed, practical, and well liked by her colleagues and teachers. Being home...well, THAT is where things seem to break down. But not for long...hopefully!

I don't like his penalty and he says mine is too harsh...if you or anyone has a better idea

You have a lot of options and a lot of flexibility in this. Find a way that works with your family dynamic and your daughter's (and your) personality.

Why don't you talk to her and ask her what she thinks would be a good idea if she forgets or doesn't follow through? You might be surprised at what she says. My daughter often suggests a more difficult consequence than I would. If my daughter comes up with the consequence then she will follow through with much better grace than if I choose.

A friend once advised me not to dock their allowance. She said when they have jobs and get busy, they'd much rather have their "allowance" docked than do the work.

Your daughter and mine seem alike in many ways. Humor works best on my daughter if I can work it in. Think about your family jokes and idiosyncrasies and work that in. If she doesn't do a good enough job cleaning the bathroom then she has to play monopoly with you? Wear your middle-aged frumpy necklace and ear rings when the two of you go shopping? Let you pick a restaurant that serves the meat loaf you love instead of the sushi she loves? Learn to sing "Me and You and a Dog Named Boo"?

I can nag, get mad, leave notes, fine her, make her do extra chores....none of that works as well as humor with my daughter. Having to sing "I'm a Little Teapot" complete with motions gets results every time. It's perfect for my daughter. It doesn't REALLY feel like punishment, so she doesn't resent it. But she doesn't want to do it. And she can't do it without laughing, and I can't watch it without laughing. And she knows I'll video it.

I do understand where you are coming from. When my daughter was in high school, I once made my daughter come back home from a date, right after she and her boyfriend were seated at the restaurant after waiting a half an hour, to take her laundry out of the dryer. I can't tell you how much frustration drove me to that. After that, I decided there has to be a better way that doesn't leave me feeling petty, mean and put-upon and doesn't leave her angry and resentful. That's when I came up with the Little Teapot tactic. Worked like a charm.

Good luck!

I just finished googling signs reminding people to clean the kitchen, and found some of the funniest signs from college students reminding their roommates to clean the kitchen, quit eating other people's food and flush the toilet. I can't wait to use them if my kids come back home this summer! The flowcharts are hysterical. I'm kinda looking forward to the first time I walk in and empty cereal bowls are on the counter.

So where is the link, Daisy? Sounds like a fun thing.

I have 2 college age DDs.

Here is what I think is happening as well, that has not been mentioned-- is the dynamic of the family member vs guest.

Your DD just wants to hang out in her house....you and DH are used to having the house to yourselves, and somewhat view the intrusion of your DD as upsetting your normal balance. And you are appalled that she is acting in an "unguestlike" manner.

I think that your daughter wants to feel like ...it's my house, my room, my bed, finally, a place where I can do anything I want and not worry about upsetting my roommate or have to worry about eating the last granola bar or taking the last diet coke. Mom and dad have a nice house, a full pantry, a nice big clean kitchen to cook in with sharp knives and and a real mixer and a comfy couch and big TV to enjoy. those tiny college living quarters are stressful because people are packed in so tightly What a relief to let it all hang out. No matter what I do here,it's OK because this is my family.

You and DH feel like: what just happened? Everything was clean and sparkly, and not sticky. My world is organized with just the 2 of us....how can just 1 or 2 more people make my house seem like there 10 people here now. Why are all the glasses dirty? Who didn't turn on the dishwasher. Who drank my diet coke?

So you all need to carefully decide, as noted by Pal's experience, is your daughter supposed to act like a guest in her own home? Be careful here. She could end up feeling abandoned and with no home, which I don't think is what you want.

What you want is for her to take some adult responsibility for what happens when she is at home.

Be more honest with her and say: dad and I get used to things being picked up and kind of quiet. We love having you home, but it's also stressful for us when it seems a bit chaotic because we are kind of used to how things are now when you're not here. With work, we have a tight schedule and are tired at the end of the day and the end of the week.
We know that school is hard, and that you need to de-stress and relax when you are here. But we need some help from you to keep things more organized when you're here.

I found that this summer when our older daughter was living at home if I told her things like. you are welcome to make anything you want in the kitchen but I need it to be completely clean by 5:30 when I get home, or I need to do laundry tonight, so if you do any today please have the dryer empty by 7:00. These helped to let her know what I wanted, but let her take care of things on her own time.

How about a little gift? Include a note, 'because I love you.' Sometimes the fewer words said, the better.

Here is a link that might be useful: book...

OMG. You people are pussy footing around the issue! I take pride in pre awakening my children. Seriously. Put the issue right on the table. You don't want to ignore the elephant in the room. You don't have to be mean, just honest!

I agree with golddust. She is 19 and can handle honesty... if she can't, you have bigger problems than you think. I already talk to my 4 year old that way and he seems to be able to handle it. I tell him regularly "don't you dare make more work for me" and "where does that go? not where you left it!" He also gets lots of cuddles and he is told regularly how much he is loved, but I work a full time job and am exhausted all the time and I'll be damned if he is going to leave his crap around and dump out his toys and not clean them up and learn other inconsiderate behavior that kids are prone to, thinking they are the center of the world.

Tell her, I catered to you when you were a child, but now you are a grown up and more than capable of making your own sandwich (I make my 4 year old serve himself wherever safe and possible as well! though I do make his sandwiches for him, and operate anything with a heating element... but if he is interrupting me to get him a drink of water out of the fridge when the cups and the water dispenser are fully accessible to him he gets "the look.") Tell her, I work hard, I am going back to school... it is time for you to pitch in around here.

I understand that you like the trip to NY you do... I think it is a great opportunity for a learning experience. I'd make her earn it back by volunteering over Thanksgiving to see what people less fortunate have it like. Tell her she has a choice - she can sit on her butt and no trip or she can learn first hand all she has to be grateful for and you can enjoy a nice family tradition together. If she chooses to sit around, for the love of all that is holy, do NOT wait on her, do NOT take care of her like she is a child, make her help with the meal prep and maybe do the entire cleanup and enjoy your thanksgiving.

Another mean mom I guess.

The issue I see here is that you are angry-- you feel like you can't wait to discuss this issue face-to-face, you can't stand the idea of sharing your traditional holiday trip to NYC with your daughter-- you don't even want her on your family trips. All this over a weekend visit with your 19 year old.

The reality is that things have changed in *your* life. You are working and going to school now-- where before you said you were primarily a SAHM. As a result, you've had to change the rules-- as well you should have for a variety of reasons-- and you are angry that she's not complying. But did you tell her that you changed the rules? That your needs and expectations have changed? When she made the plans for her concert weekend, did you say "honey, that's great, we'd love to see you.. but I have a busy schedule now too and we'll be running you back and forth to the city. It would be a help if you two could pick up after yourselves."

It isnt too much to expect-- but in your own words, you and your husband had always catered to her and picked up after her. You set the precedent and the expectations-- perhaps not willingly, but you set them.

I wonder if your anger isnt really anger with yourself. Honestly, to hear that you don't want to do the things with her that you've always done over the holidays, sounds like an overreaction and a bit of self punishment. The biggest problem with that is that it sends a message of "You are a horrible daughter and I can't stand to be around you" rather than "I'd like you to start behaving like an adult, be more appreciative and learn to take more responsibility".

Listen, I get how you feel. I understand that your daughter needs to wake up, be more polite and take more responsibility. What 19 yo doesnt? But I also get your daughter. She's taking a rigorous program at school-- labs and work on top of her classes, she took a heavy load of summer classes along with work in the summer. I have no doubt that she DID think of this weekend visit as a little vacation. I dont doubt for a second that she was focused on herself and her fun.. leaving a trail of dishes etc behind her. Is it acceptable behavior for an almost adult? no-- but it is understandable and correctable.

Pal touched on something that I think is important to keep in mind. Not only is your daughter learning to be an adult (and seemingly doing pretty well in a large number of areas) but the two of you are learning how to be adult mother and daughter. This transition will develop as the two of you grow. She isnt the only one growing and learning right now-- so are you. To suddenly change your expectations and stomp your feet and withhold things you both enjoy is counterproductive and sends the wrong message.

You want your daughter to be more of an adult at home--tell her that. Tell her that you now have more responsibilities outside the home and that it's exhausting for you to "be the old mom" when she comes home... I think it's really important to acknowledge that you did indulge her when she was younger and you werent working. Again, the rules have changed. She can't succeed if she doesn't know the rules.

I also think it is important that she does see you and your home as a break and haven from the pressures of school. That doesnt mean that you have to be her wait staff-- but I feel certain that you too want her to think of home as comfort and shelter. I suspect that because she brought home a friend that she didnt interact and bond with you as she may have on other visits. Is some of your reaction related to wishing you'd had more time with her yourself? That you felt left out.. and didn't feel like it was a family visit? Let her know that as well-- that will go a lot further towards developing your adult mother-daughter relationship than cancelling family traditions because you are hurt, angry and exhausted.

I recognize that my take on this is in contrast to many of the responses here on this board. However, I think it is very important that you see this situation as a teaching moment for each of you. You clearly love your daughter and want her to grow to be the lovely, intelligent, polite and responsible woman you know she can be. She will. She's already doing heads and shoulders more than a majority of kids out there .. is the work done? Of course not.. but here's an opportunity to teach her about adult communication and respect as well as responsibility. Relate to her as an adult rather than an insolent child. Teach her how adults handle tension and frustration before they escalate to resentments.

I wish you the best .. and while I've been a bit tough in my response, I think you've clearly done a great job with your daughter. As you said, she's a "good kid" -- and despite this tension, she's carrying good grades, taking summer classes, working and people like her. You too are doing good things for yourself-- taking on a career and classes now that your responsibilities at home have been reduced. You are two great women.. I have no doubt that you'll get past this as two stronger and wiser women.

Yikes, sorry, I didnt intend for my message to be SO long in such a long thread. I hope you find something helpful in it.. despite the fact that i was ridiculously long winded.

juliekcmo, You definitely nailed it, my daughter's attitude does seem to be something along those lines. At school she has to "be" something, someone. She has to perform, she has responsibilities. Whereas at home, with the people who know her best and love her, she just wants to be "herself" which to her means other people "taking care of her." She has said being at school is very hard and she comes home to "chill."

Maybe it's because I was a sahm, I had time to cater to my kids. I felt like in those early years especially I wanted to do that. I waited until they were both older to go back to school (grad school) and go back to work because heck, I gave up plenty and at this point they are more than capable. I think my daughter is clueless about how busy our lives are and how, like her, we have plenty of pressure. At 19 she doesn't get to come home and be the baby. It's just not reasonable anymore. While we're here for her and obviously support her financially, she has to grow up. She can come lay around the house and watch TV or play on her computer during vacations BUT I don't think she should be adding work for us, taking us for granted, and failing to pull her own weight with regard to her laundry, her kitchen messes.

I've tried that whole "I'm going out but I want all your cheese, deli stuff, bread, orange juice cartons, etc. cleaned up by 5:30" approach and guess what? I get home at 5:30, everything's still on the counters, she's in front of the TV or playing on her computer or whatever, and it's all out. When I say "hey, why's this stuff here" she says "Oops. I forgot." Then she'll clean it up. She leaves sweaty drinks glasses without coasters on wood tables too -- sigh. It doesn't sound like a big deal, maybe I'm anal, but we paid good money for this furniture and there are coasters everywhere, and she treats it like garbage.

I haven't actually mentioned it but we still have another child at home still, a high school junior, so my husband and I are not the only ones at home. We also have pets. It's not that quiet and orderly, or clean and sparkly (I do have someone help with cleaning but she doesn't come every week). I'm busy with our son. He has school, sports, clubs, etc. and I am still running him around (no drivers license yet) to his activities plus SAT prep classes, various tutoring appointments, college visits, etc.

Daisyinga: I hadn't though of using humor. It's an interesting approach. Have to think about it. As for docking her allowance, I would say my husband agrees with your friend who said not to do that. His reasoning is that she is going to fail at picking up after herself repeatedly and her whole allowance will be docked eventually and then what are you supposed to do? Dock next month's allowance? I said I thought if the consequences were painful enough she'd learn faster and it wouldn't come to that but he disagrees. He thinks she will run out of money very quickly.

kgwlisa, funky art: I need to read your posts slowly but I have to get to work. I was writing one post and didn't see yours until after I hit "post."

Quickly though, you both make good important points. Funky art, you're right, I do want her to think of home as comfort and shelter. This was the first time she brought home a friend from school and I didn't mind the time they spent together (her Dad and I actually went hiking one day, biking the next, so we were busy). But yes, maybe we do need to spell out the house rules again for her, explaining what the expectations are.

kgwlisa, I think she can handle honesty. She tends to be an objective, reflective, even-tempered person. Still, I don't know if I'm going to keep the NYC trip this year. I guess there's time to decide on that, perhaps after the weekend when we've talked with her and gotten a handle on the situation. I think we've catered to both our kids too much and in all honesty, if I am going to go to NYC it would be nice to go just with my husband. He works out of state and we only see each other on weekends. As for my daughter wanting to see the store windows, well We live close enough to the city that she could easily get on a train and go by herself (lot's of people do that). This is another situation where I can see I've made things too easy for her. I think I like playing fairy godmother MUCH too much...

A few thoughts...if I didn't know you weren't my GF, I would think you were...she could've written precisely the same post that you did about her 19 yr old daughter who is excelling in college yet expecting royal treatment at home.

I see one issue...she doesn't respect you and what you do for her. We teach people how we want to be treated. Time to change the lessons for her from what worked in the past. (When GFs daughter was 2, she used to throw up when Mom said "no." It was a lesson Mom learned well...daughter is no longer 2 and won't throw up....but Mom is still afraid to say no.)

I see another issue...how she treats you at home is also how she treats others and it reflects on her relationship with others. Like GFs daughter who was in a school fashion show....all these different gals came out and the school cheered like crazy, yet when daughter came out, you could almost hear the crickets chirping...despite the fact she's involved in school govt, sports, has friends, etc. Empathy, consideration, gratitude, thoughtfulness, are all things that have to be taught so she can carry them with her in her relationship with others as well.

If you are angry about all you did and didn't even receive a thank you, time to ask yourself, do I need to do all of that?

Learn to say "no" out of love, instead of "yes" out of fear.

You asked if you should write a letter....I say yes, but don't give it to her. Throw it out after written. Do that to exhaust yourself of your anger and to gain insight into the situation...how much is you, how much is her, how much is what she's been taught in the past, how much respect you deserve and how you want to be treated, and how much is what you want for her to become in the future.

Then you will be better prepared to have a heart-to-heart with her. This is not a case of child needing punishment. This is a case of reaching out to a child's heart to help her understand what it takes to make the life she's experiencing happen, a better appreciation for the love her Mom and Dad provide, and an opportunity for her to develop the character she'll need to be successful in all aspects of her life.

On the money issue, didn't you mention she had savings from her jobs that she viewed as her money? If she runs out of money due to her choices that will be another issue she can get creative dealing with. If you are already covering cell phones, etc, how much allowance does she need?

There can also be natural consequences. If you leave a sweaty glass on a wood table and it leaves a ring, your allowance will be docked to cover refinishing the table. If you leave food out, your allowance will be docked the cost of the food because it can spoil and the food does cost money. Some things I may be willing to let slide in my household but things such as food being left out is a waste and it only takes about 1 minute to get everything put back in the fridge after you have used it.

You could also incorporate logical parameters such as all food and drinks must be consumed in designated areas to keep dishes where they belong.

I agree that there is a tension here. She has done well and you are proud of her and you do not want to diminish that but there are still certain things we have to do.

Derek lied to us about work training over Thanksgiving so we let him stay home. I think my house was host to one of the biggest high school parties on record (that would be my Derek).

He missed Christmas that year as I spent the money getting rugs cleaned and furniture repaired. Yes, we all survived.

Whatever you decide, good luck!

With my son, all I've ever had to do is what others have suggested. Just ask him to do what I want, tell him why, tell him when I need it. Like a reasonable person he will either do it, or explain why he can't and negotiate a solution. On rare occasions I need to leave a reminder note. That's it.

I don't know why my daughter doesn't respond to that. She's reasonable and beyond wonderful in so many ways. With most things she is like my son - ask her to do what I want, explain why, she will either do it or negotiate another solution like a reasonable adult. I don't know why she doesn't respond to household chores that way. All I know is that my choices are to have World War III over the laundry or make her laugh.

Families are different, parents are different, kids are different. In the end, you're the one who knows your daughter best, Judith, and you will find a way that works for you both.

The longer you allow the 'sleeping dog to lie' the more difficult the situation becomes. It would have been best to discuss the situation while your DD was still at the house, and take the chance at her being upset for a few hours. Now it's *you* who is upset, and that isn't right.

Since she has gone back to school, whatever you say may not be taken as seriously or forgotten quickly, as she's not 'in the territory',~~ hence the saying, 'out of sight, out of mind.'

My suggestion would be to put this on the back burner. Put into writing the things that upset you on this last visit, and on her next visit, you'll be prepared and know exactly what to say.

It's just my opinion, but a face-to-face 'confrontation' is the only way she'll take you seriously.

Perfect idea, Patty. I agree.

I haven't had a chance to read all the responses, but have to agree, the ones I did read are all offering great advise.

The thing that struck me the most about this age and phase was that not only is it a time where our kids are learning to live on their own, but it's also a time where our relationship with them is being redefined as well. However you decide to approach the subject, the sooner you set the guidelines of what you expect, the easier the transition will be for both for both of you, I just feel that it's important to talk to her on an adult level and not like she's still a kid (which I know can be hard to do). From what you've described, it sounds like you've done a wonderful job as a parent but now that she is an adult, it really concerns me that you're not expecting her to be more responsible for some of her own costs. I know school can be a full load, but there should be some challenges mixed in there to help her understand real life issues better. To me, the hardest part about being a parent is navigating through this time of letting go and finding a good balance, I have no doubt though that you will be able to work it out.

Thank you everyone, for all your ideas, support, wisdom. I do have a follow up on this now. I want to let you all know what happened.

My daughter calls sometimes in the middle of the day when she has a break between classes. When she called this time, she started talking like usual. I broke in to her monologue and asked if she sensed anything amiss or off while she was home last weekend. She said it was a great weekend. Nothing "off" at all. She had no idea what I was talking about.

I took a deep breath and said that I thought it wasn't such a great weekend. She seemed really confused. I explained how I felt about the weekend and how she treated her Dad and I, giving concrete examples, such as how I had to prod her to thank her Dad for the ride to the concert, how she and her friend didn't clean up for themselves after ever meal, well, all the kinds of things from earlier posts.

I stayed reasonably calm and gave concrete examples about how I saw what happened. She was very quiet, didn't interject or argue. I felt she was very receptive. When I was done speaking my piece she was very quiet. We ended the call. I wasn't really sure what was going on in her head.

The next evening she called me while I was coming home from night class. She apologized very sincerely. She said if I hadn't said anything to her about the weekend she wouldn't have known what was up but upon reflection she realized I was right about the thank yous and the messes. She totally agreed. She was thinking about it all day and was very upset. She said she couldn't even concentrate in her classes the whole day because she was so upset. I think she was surprised too, because she was so clueless and if I hadn't said anything she would have continued thinking everything was fine. It was more of a sheepish reaction, not defensive at all. She was genuinely sorry and contrite.

I said it was all part of us all getting used to her status as a young adult, that we probably hadn't been upfront with her about our expectations, and that we needed to establish that very clearly to move forward. We agreed to try to figure out a way that we could all agree on to make things better this weekend. I said she wasn't living here and we had not communicated to her how things changed over the last few months and that was an oversight on our part. I said I wanted her to feel happy about coming home and so forth and we were all going to make some mistakes as we figured out how to transition into a more adult relationship. She said she wondered if I knew how hard it was for her to apologize and how bad she was at it and I said yes, because ever since you were a little girl you have hated to apologize and in fact, this might be the first time I heard you actually do it!

Then we began laughing because it was true and talked for about an hour about her bio class and and the summer research positions she is applying for over xmas break.

Her Dad and I will Skype with her to talk about it more this weekend, with specifics, but I was so relieved that it went so easily. I think we're on a good footing to move ahead with this now. I am going to use some of the tips from everyone on the board. I'm thinking of actually making notes for the discussion so I don't forget and make notes for her too.

I couldn't have done it without all the advice and wisdom of everyone who shared thoughts, ideas, feedback. A million thanks!

Excellent outcome and perfect parenting! You touched her heart with genuine communication and feeling, gave her a needed wake up call and opened the door to an opportunity for her to grow into an adult as well as an opportunity for all of you to grow even closer.

Just wonderful. High fives and hugs all around!

Really appreciated the update!

That's excellent news, you just went ahead and put it out there, while it was still fresh on your mind ; she responded well and it shows that she is willing to move forward on a better note of being more grateful, it's clear she is not a brat , she just needed a little nudge on your part.

Perfect! Your post actually made me smile. I'm so happy for all of you. You do have a wonderful daughter. Apologies are difficult for many of us. Perhaps let her know that they do become easier with practice. That's something I've had to tell my own children.

I made mistakes regarding manners when I was transitioning from childhood to adulthood too. If there isn't an adult to clue you in, how else could you learn what's proper behavior and what isn't? Your daughter is so fortunate to have a caring parent like you who will sit and explain things, judithn. I admire you for how you handled this.

So happy for you judithn...took me back to when my kids were in college in our city, but living on campus. Sounds like a great conversation, and something she needed to hear, and you were able to do it in such a way that she really listened, and matured enough to apologize. You obviously have a great daughter, there, and now you have practice for when your son leaves home...heh heh!!

We Moms have to support one another...our kids are in their early 40's, so a lot of this type of thing is behind us, but there are always things to work out. We do have very thoughtful children now...they just weren't so much at your daughter's age!!

Sounds like you did a great job. And it sounds like she is a very nice and well brought up young woman.

What a beautiful outcome! You have opened the door for an even closer adult relationship with your wonderful daughter, and I wish you both all the best as you walk this new path together!

Perfection!! That was perfection. Great job.

My intuition says maybe you are done with this subject for now. Just be prepared to deal with issues as they come up in the future.

Wow, what a great ending and a way to start things out in a new direction. That's so wonderful!!!

Many moons ago, when DS (now 20) was a toddler, and I was heavy into parenting books, I read something that I have come back to time and time again. It was this: The most difficult times with our children are the very best opportunities to teach life lessons. This seems like a classic example of that. Congrats all around...

Oh, what a great outcome, Judith! I'm particularly impressd that DD processed the info for a day and then apologized. It tells me she really "got it"!

And congratulations to you for accepting the advice given here; I'm afraid I may have gone a little into "defensive mode":), but you didn't. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

What a beautiful resolution, give yourself a pat on the back judithn. It must be such a relief for you. It's amazing how much can be accomplished when you have a plan and execute it.

Judith, keep in mind she *is* her Mother's daughter! Surely your good manners have been passed on to her. I learned years ago children mirror who they are closest to, which is usually parents. It can sometimes take longer than we wish. ;o)

Thanks everyone! Your support means so much to me. It has been noted by others that the community here is pretty remarkable. So many great people and so much for all of us to gain and share by tapping in to the communal wisdom, life experience, honesty, diversity, and perspectives, etc.

As for the situation with my daughter, well as all of us with kids know, there are good times and less good times. Right now, especially with all your congratulations, I'm enjoying a 'moment in the sun' as a Mom. Very important to really take in the good times between the periodic sessions of tearing (what's left) of one's hair out!!!