New HVAC quotes - Opinions?

17 years ago

Hi,

I live in the Triangle, NC. I received quotes to replace heat pumps/air handlers (both too old, one already stopped working due to refrigerant leak, heavily oxidized) and wondered what your opinions were on these. The house is a 2-story, 2100 sq ft equally distributed between two floors.

Both technicians recommended Carrier Comfort, but were open to doing Trane estimates.

Quote to replace one system (2nd floor)

Technician A

Carrier Comfort 2-ton 25HCA324A003, 13 SEER

Paired with an FX4 Comfort Deluxe Fan Coil, fixed-speed blower (updated to variable for an extra $375).

New lineset+gutter guard, drainline (right now its just a pipe dropping watter off a second floor outer wall), and partial ductwork, thermostat wire, 1 yr service maintenance, Carrier warranty.

Total - $7,947 SEER: 13

Quote to replace both systems -

Technician B

Carrier Comfort 2-ton, model 25HCA324. Paired with an FX4 Comfort Deluxe Fan Coil variable speed blower.

Replacing the drain line in the crawlspace unit and ducts in attic, safety switches, but reusing existing refrigerant piping, 1 yr serv main, Carrier warranty.

Total - $14,055 SEER: 14,5

Both techs quoted 2-ton units on the merits of walking around the house and based on their experienece. Both measured the perimeter of the house and took pictures before leaving.

With Technician B I voiced my concern about not doing a Manual J, he stated he always does one prior to starting the job. When I asked what if he found out I needed more than 2-tons units he said he would upgrade me for free if he was wrong. I asked if cost would be substantial (concerned about this affecting his decision) and he said no.

Both seemed very honest and professional - what do you all think?

Technician B's organization has 25% of its staff NATE certified (none for Tech A). Both have decent ratings at the Better Business Bureau, both companies have 150-200 employees.

It's so much money I'm leaning towards getting a couple of other quotes from two other orgs with NATE certified techs to see if prices are reasonable - but how much weight should I place on NATE and the BBB?

THANK YOU so much for any advice or suggestions, I am a single female and although my brothers are helping with advice from afar, it's pretty much up to me.

Hope you are all having a wonderful weekend,

Mgirla

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Comments (7)

bob_brown
17 years ago
I could fly to your closest city, rent a truck, and still make a $9,000+ profit on the job.
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garyg
17 years ago
Wow. In Baltimore, a 13 SEER, 3 ton, Trane heat pump was quoted at $4500. A 14 SEER at $5400. Same line set, no thermostat. Your prices are way high. Get more quotes so you have more options. There are other manufacturers: Rheem/RUUD, Goodman (lowest cost supplier), American Standard (makes Trane but may be cheaper because of no advertising), Lennox, Bryant (made by Carrier and may be less $$).

Good luck and be smart.
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Jt Some questions please. What is your location? What size home living area? What size furnace and eff are you replacing? What size AC are you replacing? I would like to know the exact mdl number evap coil for each quote. What thermostat is proposed for the Carrier quote? That is a big difference between the 96% eff Carrier furnace and the 80% eff Trane furnace-both 60 K input. That would be about 56 KBTUs output on the Carrier and about 48 KBTUs on the Trane. Not insignificant. I don't care for some shortcuts that homeowners make particularly on reusing linesets and using existing thermostats that shortchange a nice furnace's operational capability. Post back with the info requested. IMO
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I'll focus on the HVAC side since I don't know much about direct vent hot water tanks. The quote provides enough information about what they plan to do which gives me a good feeling about this installer. However since you are providing the equipment, the quote is high in my opinion. Sounds like they are still quoting the job as if they provided it and marked it up. I think it can come down at least $5k. Who is providing high voltage power to these units, or is this an additional cost paid to another contractor? Also to clarify, will there be multiple returns on the first floor as well or one central return in the living room? I would clarify with the dealer about the ductwork system. By the quote it sounds like it is all hard metal, with no flex duct even in the attic where it is common. If this is the case, great. This could account for why the quote is on the higher end. I would strongly consider upgrading to the 15 SEER condensers if the unit price increase is not more than a couple hundred per unit. They should be quieter and are overall nicer units in my opinion even if they have the same cabinet. Another upgrade to look into is a high efficiency media filter for each unit. They typically get replaced every 6 months or in some cases up to a year, and they provide better filtration of the air and hence protection of the equipment. These may add a couple hundred per unit installation.
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Any ductwork modifications to accommodate increase in CFMs from a 4 ton condenser to 5 ton condenser? I doubt I would go 5 ton without a load calc in hand to support that decision. And if 5 ton, plan on ductwork changes. Keep in mind you size HVAC for averages with a small fudge factor, not extremes. I don't care for your quote from the furnace selection to the third party evap coil. I could not find that the system quoted qualified for Fed Tax Credit. Not a fan of NEST thermostat. It is my understanding that SF has relatively moderate winters. I see no reason for a 95%+ eff furnace. Stay with the Performance 17 AC condenser properly sized of course. Pair with Carrier aluminum evap coil and Infinity 80 furnace with Infinity controller. Consider a whole house air filter cabinet. Any hot/cold spots in home should be indentified and pointed out to dealer for possible improvement. IMO This post was edited by tigerdunes on Sun, Jul 28, 13 at 8:17
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To close the loop, the second company quoted: Carrier Comfort 16 Carrier Infinity 80 16 SEER $6,200 ($300 tax credit) Carrier Comfort 13 Carrier Performance 80 14 SEER $5,200 (no tax credit) Much more reasonable (obviously the lower SEER accounts for part of it, but it seems like 20 was overkill). I'm leaning towards the 14 SEER, anyone have any thoughts? I'll be in the house long enough to realize any long-term savings in energy bills, but the $700 price difference is a lot to overcome, even over a long time. Thanks again! This post was edited by jds2013 on Wed, Sep 18, 13 at 20:30
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mike13
17 years ago
They do seem high for this area (I'm in the Triangle as well). Depending on the ductwork involved, length of the line sets, access to all the areas, etc I don't think they anywhere near as overpriced as Bob Brown states.

I would think you add $1,000, maybe a little more for the extras since this is not just a simple replacement/swap-out, to GaryG's numbers and that would be representative of this area.

I would ask Technician A why the need for a new theromostat wire & Technician B why they are not proposing a new line set.
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remodeler08
17 years ago
Hi,

If cost is a factor, for approximately $8,000.00, we can install two systems. And, we WILL install two new line-sets.

Phillip
phillip@ptcooper.com
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mgirla
Original Author
17 years ago
Hi,

Thanks so much Bob, GaryG, Mike and Phillip. This has helped enormously.

Based on your feedback I was able to converse more knowleadgeably and the last estimate was for two Trane systems, 14 SEER each system, linesets/breakers, full duct replacement for one and for the other only boots replacement/sealing joints, $9,990 overall. Much closer to Mike's ballpark.

I still have 2 more appts for two more quotes (one for Bryant/Amer Stan - thanks for the suggestion GaryG).

Mike, Tech A's new thermostat wire was listed because, if I recall correctly, I have an old mercury 6-wire (8-wire?) now that would have to be replaced.

Tech B's lack of lineset - compared to the other two techs his inspection seemed a bit more casual, his estimate not as clearly written or laid out - the other two techs both advised that new line set would have to be run through outside wall (off attic) - one stated the original was the wrong size, the other stated that the original was one size at the air handler but a different size where it met the pump. Neither thought they could run it through wall, but placing it in a gutter enclosure through outside running parallel to chimmeny so as to decrease its visibility.

I'll keep you all posted.

THANK YOU!!!
Mgirla
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grafferty
17 years ago
Does anyone have experience with a Tempstar system.
I live in north florida and need a 4 ton unit. My existing Tempstar is 10 years old and has had 2 evaporators and needs a third now. I'm thinking of replacing the complete system but Trane systems are quoted around $8,000 and Goodman around $4,500. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
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garyg
17 years ago
MGirla:

Keep us posted on the other quotes.

Grafferty:

You should start your own thread.
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New HVAC quotes - Opinions?

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New HVAC quotes - Opinions?

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