usetoteach

tell us about your home and its total size and size by each floor.

basement? if so, is it finished and how large living area?

for upstairs system, this is a 2 1/2 ton straight AC with gas heat? if so, what size furnace? how did the AC perform in the summer including comfort?

I would start by asking for a load calculation-get it in writing. your ductwork will need a complate inspection as to size including suppliy and return runs and trunk lines, leaks, insulation qualities, etc. normally if you go up in size for cooling, ductwork will require modification.

of course you want to take advantage of the fed govt tax credit.

because of your area/climate with relatively mild winters, I would incorporate a high eff heat pump systems into your HVAC replacement choice. you might consider the HP paired with VS matching air handler as opposed to 80% VS gas furnace. ask quoting dealer to look at your electric panel to determine spare capacity for strip heat.

that's my best advice as a starting point. equipment selection can come later.

IMO

Based on your preferences you listed.
For you,
There is only one way to go,
XR15
your choice then would be variable speed or single speed.
stay away from 3rd party coils!
So with that said the only XV furnace would be TUD2C100ACV52A

variable with the right tstat can control humidity which is a plus for the south region you live in.
The next issue would be space or installation.
Since the variable speed would be a 100,000 btu furnace and would have the largest evaporator coil. 4TXCC060BC3HCA you have to see if that fits your application.

XL15i is a very solid unit, if you want the tax credit there is no match up at this time for your 3 ton A/C.

I'm not getting good vibs from the sales guy you are describing, I think you may want to get other quotes.

Hi ClassicDave and TigerDunes,
Thanks for your reply. I do have another guy coming out on Friday to give another quote and hopefully do a heat load calculation. Seems like first guy just wanted to give brochures and make a sell. Anyway, may I please give you some specifics?
Basement -- Unfinished -- approximately 1644 sq ft
1st floor -- approx 1528 sq ft
2nd floor -- approx 2065 sq ft
Front of house is brick and gets afternoon sun. Rest of house is hardiplank siding.
The house has a large two story foyer. 7 windows on first floor on front of house. 7 windows on 2nd floor on front of house. 1 window in attic on front of house. Not sure if this matters, but there is not a supply vent in the 2nd floor foyer ceiling. I bought the house in May 2006 and have had problems with the A/C from day one. It is always in need of freon. I thought one guy found the leak last year, but I guess not because it only blows room temperature air at this time. Like ClassicDave mentioned, I did not get the best vibs from the first guy. Was he right that the only way I can get tax credit on XR15 with the variable speed furnace is to use a 3rd party coil and that the XR 15 with the single speed will qualify with the Trane coil? I really think he wanted me to go with the XL15i and the XV80 (100,000 BTU) which I cannot afford....I "THINK" our current furnace is 80,000 btu. I really appreciate both of you taking time to provide me with information as I make a decision because I feel like I'm over my head. Any suggestions are certainly appreciated...Wish I could just go to sleep tonight and wake up and new system be installed in the morning...

with a 3 ton XR15 you can get Tax credit with a variable speed but you have to go up to a 100,000 btu furnace and use the largest evap coil trane offers. You have to look at the install process to see if this furnace and coil will fit.

Otherwise you will have to go with the standard single speed furnace which is not a bad choice if that is the only option.

There is no XL15i applications with Trane products that qualify at this time so that should not be an option if you want to take advantage of the tax credit.

Just take your time with this process, schedule a couple more estimates. You want to know what your are spending your money on because this is a major expense and you only have 1 shot to find the right contractor who will do it right. Also don't get caught up in just the brand of equipment either.
A brand of equipment will only be as good as the company who installs it.

usetoteach

first off, I do suspect you are undersized on second floor for hotlanta summer weather/climate which I know very well. ask for a load calculation in writing.

like ClassicDave, I am not a fan of third party coils and Trane should hang their head in shame and embarassment that they have to rely on them for tax credit consideration.

If you have the capacity in your electrical breaker panel service, my first choice would be a high eff HP with VS air handler and backup strip heat. either XL15i or XR15 would be fine. If air handler configuration is not a reasonable option, then you will be hard pressed to find a tax credit qualifying system with a correctly sized 80% VS furnace whther AC or HP condenser. that is a fact.

keep us posted. we'll help as much as we can

IMO

after reading my last post,
I want to clarify one of my comments, that there is not at this time any 3 ton XL15i straight cool with a gas furnace and trane evaporator coil that will qualify for the tax credit.

XL15i has one furnace with trane evaporator coil system that does qualify and that is the 1.5 ton.
They way I wrote it above could be interpreted differently. XL15i do qualify in other applications like heat pumps.

Can I clarify the following with ya'll before the next guy comes out on Friday?

Please let me know if I'm understanding everything:

1. XR 15 3 ton with XT80 80,000 BTU (DOES QUALIFY or DOES NOT QUALIFY) or does it have to be the XT80 100,000 BTU to qualify?
That is single stage heat with high efficiency blower. Right? Is there a hugh disadvantage not having 2 stage heat? Will it be noticable in the summer not having the 2 stage blower?

2. XL15i 3 ton --- DOES or DOES NOT qualify with the XV80 80,000 BTU or 100,000 BTU

I have had limited experience with heatpumps and love the warmth of gas. I've definitely decided to stay away from 3rd party coils.

Now for the million dollar question....
ClassicDave and TigerDunes.... If this were your house what would you be installing? Brand? Setup/Configuration? I can tell you both are very knowledgable and I value your opinions.
Thanks so much for all of your help.

usetoteach

I read your post from late yesterday evening, have done a little research, but am still thinking about your upstairs system.

I don't like the idea of having to oversize a furnace just to qualify for the tax credit.

what dealer is coming out Friday?

post back please.

IMO

Had another guy email me a quote stating that he could do the following and it would qualify for the tax credit:
Trane XR15 3 ton; Trane XV80 afue 80,000 BTU and a Trane OVERSIZED coil. Is an oversized coil a good thing or a bad thing? Which is the better choice: oversizing the coil or going with the XV80 afue 100,000 BTU in order to qualify for the tax credit? I'm about ready to buy space heaters and window units.... Just kidding, but this is a definitely a decision that I'm glad I don't have to make everyday.

usetoteach

ask dealer to provide and post the complete mdl number of both the XV80 furnace, the coil mdl number, and the matching AHRI Directory number.

that will be the tell of the tape and help in the decision making process. I personally think this is just a large gap in Trane's product lineup.

IMO

Agree with tiger, depends how "oversized" they want to make this coil and if it is an approved match. Oversizing is very common to get higher efficiency, so no concerns there. With the right thermostat and variable speed blower capable of Comfort-R (which you may not even need), dehumidification should be no problem even with an oversized coil. Certainly, however, smaller coils yield higher latent heat capacities (dehumidification) because they get "colder" in effect.

I would not oversize a furnace to get the tax credit, 2 stage or not. Many dealers do. That's taking away from comfort and lifespan of the equipment in my mind because of short cycling. Really depends what the actual heating requirement is. 100k could be way oversized or just marginally oversized. 80k heat with 36k cooling sounds more understandable than 100k with 36k.

I checked my Trane price list, I did not see a over sized coil matchup. But keep in mind it's my price list and my local Trane distributor may just have kept certain gas system match ups out of my list.

I did briefly check AHRI web site and saw that there is a "61" coil that can make some system match ups qualify.
If they give you an AHRI number that will help.
Always ask for a AHRI #

If it were my house and I could fit the coil in the space that was given. I would have no problem with an over sized Trane coil.

I would agree with others, I wouldn't really over size your furnace.

for Value
- XR15 is Trane's value.
It's a good solid condenser at a great value price.
Trane has solid Furnaces and nice evap coils.
I like variable speed drives do to I live in the southern region.
I have a single speed Air Handler now, was here when I moved in back in 2001. So there is nothing wrong with single speed psc motors.
Remember when you ask us what would we get, the first thing any of us would say is we want a good contractor.

When I talk with my customers they all ask how's business? And they hope it's doing well. They never say hey what's Trane up too?

A good air conditioner is out of site out of mind until you have to change the filter or do proper maintenance on it.

I have specifics: Model numbers and AHRI Numbers. Any feedback on the systems will certainly be appreciated. Thanks so much....

1. AHRI #3432939
Upstairs System (Upflow in Attic)--Trane XT High Efficiency
Single-Stage 80% afue 80,000 BTU gas furnace with a 4 ton blower drive
(TUD1C080A9H4), Trane XR 3 ton 15/16 SEER high efficiency R410a Puron based
air conditioner (4TTR5036E1) and Trane cooling coil (4TXCB004CC3).

-------------------------------------------------------

(What is the difference in the next one and #1?
2. AHRI # 3432940
XR15 XT80: 4TTR5036E10 / TUD1B080A9H3 / Trane Coil 4TXCB004CC3

Not sure what the difference is in AHRI 3432939 & ARHRI 3432940. Any idea?
------------------------------------------------------------
3. AHRI #3433460
( I think this is the quote with the oversized coil)
Upstairs System (Upflow in Attic)--Trane XV Variable Speed
80% afue 80,000 BTU gas furnace with a 4 ton blower drive (TUD080R9V4), Trane
XR 3 ton 15/16 SEER high efficiency R410a Puron based air conditioner
(4TTR5036E1) and Trane cooling coil (4TXCD061BC3).

4. AHRI #3541355 (I think this one has the third party coil, so I'll steer clear of this one) Upstairs System (Upflow in Attic)--Trane XV Variable Speed 80% afue 80,000 BTU gas furnace with a 4 ton blower drive (TUD080R9V4), Trane XLi 3 ton 15/16 SEER high efficiency R410a Puron based air conditioner
(4TTX5036A1) and Aspen cooling coil (C42D44+TDR).

Instant rebate from the Trane Company -200.00

Thanks again for all your help and feedback.

usetoteach

by far,the best choice from those four options is #3.

here are the performance/eff numbers.

3433460 Active Systems XR15 TRANE 4TTR5036E1 4TXCD061BC3 *UD080R9V4 34600 13.00 16.00

This XV80 is a two stg var speed 80% eff furnace.
TUD080R9V4K 40 21.0 28 64,000/41,600 BTUs

Unfortunately, you will probably never need or use the high stg on this furnace. I do recommend Trane's 803 stat or HW VP IAQ with "DOD" feature. Also, I recommend a pleated filter media cabinet like the HW or Trane's Perfect Fit. I assume dealer has included a new refrigerant lineset. By going up in size on your condenser, ductwork will likely need modification.

If this was my home, I would consider a heat pump for upstairs with VS air handler and backup strip heat.

here are several choices for consideration. of course, each qualifies for tax credit.

3519775 Active Systems XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5036E1 4TEE3F39A1 36000 13.00 15.00 34000 9.00

1382162 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5036A1 4TEE3F39A1 36000 13.00 15.00 34000 9.00 23600

IMO
Good Luck!

FYI:

DOD = Dehumidify On Demand. With a humidity sensor, the thermostat controls both humidity and temperature.
HW = Honeywell.

Newer heat pumps do much better than older, less efficient models. My unit, a few years old, does fine down to the mid 20's. However, the newer thermostats can have an outdoor temp sensor installed. With this, you can set the point where the system switches over to auxilliary heat, either electric strips or gas furnace.

You might consider what's called 'duel fuel'. This is a combination of heat pump with a gas furnace as backup, since you already have gas in place. It might depend on the cost of electricity and gas in your area. I'm sure the guys here can comment as to whether I'm 'full of gas' suggesting something like this.

weedmeister

OP lives in Hotlanta which is a perfect area/climate for heat pumps, moderate winters with favorable electric rates.

otherwise, OP has to purchase an oversized furnace to get a qualifying tax credit system.

of course, homeowner will need to have dealer check electrical service for spare capacity to handle heat strip-I would recommend Trane's 7/12 KW staged module.

that's about it. a correctly sized choice and an oversized choice.

IMO