Please help select Trane models for new construction

16 years ago

I am building a new home, and my contractor bid two XB90 gas furnaces and XB13 air conditioners. I am locked into my GC's sub for this equipment.

I have asked for pricing on alternatives so that I can make a decision about what to go with.

The choices I have been given are:

XB90 - Base

XR90 +$600 each

XT90 +$500 each

XL90 +$400 each

XV95 +$1000 each

I couldn't get any alternatives to the XB13 AC unit. We are in Pennsylvania, and I think it is just "assumed" that the basic 13 SEER unit is the right one.

1) I'm wondering if the delta prices are backwards for the 90 series models - the XL90 is two-stage and I would have expected it to be more?

2) Assuming that the +$400 is correct for the XL90, I think it may be worth getting, expecially since I have little confidence in the sizing of the system to my house

3) I am considering adding zoning myself to the first floor system after it is installed, since the ductwork is all easily accessible in the basement. Would the variable speed blower help with this, and make it worth going to the XV95 there?

4) Should I be pushing for the 14SEER AC unit? It seems that perhaps the 13SEER is OK for me and not worth it (hard to tell since I didn't get a price yet!)

I appreciate any advice you can give. I know that this isn't the ideal approach to selecting a new system, but I'm very happy with my GC overall and am looking for the "best compromise" rather than a big fight.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (8)

tigerdunes
16 years ago
zyll

I'll be glad to give you my ideas but would you mind first providing your gas cost/therm and electric cost/kwh.

Thanks
TD
zyll
Original Author
16 years ago
The gas cost is $13.77 per mcf. I looked up the conversion and I think this is equivalent to $1.275/therm.

The electric rate is 7.14 cents/kwh.

Thanks for your help!
Related Discussions
Another New Construction quote in VA, Trane
Q
Comments (11)
The price of geothermal is keeping us from that option. Otherwise, it would be our #1 choice for HVAC. I emailed our HVAC sub and here are his replies on the topics you mentioned. Media Cabinet: "media cabinet is included, but the one we offer is only a 4 inch media" DO I NEED TO ASK FOR AN UPGRADE ON THIS, OR IS 4" SUFFICIENT? Thermostat: "If you guys want to do some shopping around for a thermostat that does dehumidification, that fine" Humidifier: "The cost to add a humidifier adds about $675. That price includes an IAQ thermostat made by Honeywell that will serve as a humdistat as well. Come to think of it that thermostat will also give you the dehumidification control that I think you are looking for. It will also operate the fresh air damper if we determine that we need to bring in fresh air. Typically a humidifier's expense to operate is pretty low as far as electricity, but the water consumption could be a bit high, as most operate on around 12 to 17 gallons a day." I WONDER IF THE IAQ HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS THE VISION PRO--THIS IS A GOOD ONE, RIGHT? DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A GOOD PRICE FOR THIS ADD-ON? Strip Heat: "As for the strip heat, the size would be a 10 KW heater that can be broken into to 5 KW section when set up with the thermostat. I personally can not see the purpose or benefit to break them into two 5 KW sections, simply because when the temps fall to low for the heat pump to operate, you generally want the the strips to be energized to take ofF what the heat pump can not keep up with. Thats why we design the strips to take ofF the additional load not the full load when the temps fall off." DOES THIS SOUND OKAY? THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR TIME ON THIS! I THINK I'M FINALLY GETTING THERE.
...See More
Austin Texas new construction Trane unit bid
Q
Comments (5)
IF that price includes all the duct-work thats not bad. You don't want propane for heating. I 2nd tigerdunes recommendations. Propane fireplace is a nice option and a great emergency heating idea and to supplement on rare cold days. Definitely go with heatpumps with electric backup. Heatpumps will serve your climate well (especially with a new well insulated house). So you are getting a 5 ton and 2 ton units? I guppose thats sized right. Do you have alot of vaulted ceilings? I would maybe consider downsizing that 5 ton to 4-tons. You want the highest single efficiency single stage heaptumps. I would verify that with the contractor.
...See More
Need help deciding between Trane models for a new AC job
Q
Comments (39)
Maybe this is one of the reasons the US Government has decided the minimum SEER rating in the southern states..... Then why would the US Government use the SEER rating as opposed to EER? You've answered your own question more or less. SEER and EER mean the same thing more or less, the only difference as stated earlier is the S which means seasonal. (So not only do you have daily changes in temperature, but also seasonal.) Weathermen have been tracking temperatures for a long time. This is how they know when a new high or low record occurs. These changes can then be taken to determine a good estimate as to the efficiency of the equipment while operating. They know based on set point of 75 degree indoor this area will have equipment run times of 2200 hours. (Houston area specific) This changes from one climate to another based on set points, ambient conditions etc. The US Government decides on minimum SEER ratings for a variety of reasons, one of which is to off set the load on the electrical grid. The south, especially Texas in particular has crazy growth rates compared to other northern climates. So as there is growth, the more efficient the equipment, the less strain there is on the electric grid (which is under immense strain during heat waves) brown outs, and rolling black outs would make for civic unrest and you'd have a mess on your hands like the world has never seen in a state that depends on air conditioning for upwards of 10 months of the year. Efficiency also keeps those electric bills down, so it's not a bad thing in that respect either. If you save $50 on your light bill, you spend that $50 some where else. Which in turn supports another part of the economy. Manufacturer's could fudge an EER number. For one you would need to know what constant temperature they selected for the EER number. Because remember this figure is determined by a 'constant temperature'. You could select 80 degrees. Everyone knows that at 80 degree ambient an air conditioner has a slightly higher capacity at lower temps. So what happens if the manufacturer changed it to 78 degrees. It would give you a slightly better EER. There are a few manufacturers that do not divulge these kinds of numbers. Why do you suppose that is? (to dupe the uninformed.) what other reason could there be? fill in the blank.
...See More
Please help pick exterior colors for my new construction!
Q
Comments (3)
Stone is most successful when it is used in a traditional way an expressed all the way around the house and not just on the front facade. As far as color, do something different, I get tired of looking at the same old forms in the same old colors. Perhaps Hunter Orange in the very top of the main gable.
...See More
tigerdunes
16 years ago
"I appreciate any advice you can give. I know that this isn't the ideal approach to selecting a new system, but I'm very happy with my GC overall and am looking for the "best compromise" rather than a big fight."

zyll

I have to admit I don't like the above statement that I see frequently from other posts/HVAC forums. Why? You are the customer and it is your home that you will be living in. You are making the purchase and should get what you want, not what the GC wants you to have.

Here are my ideas on new HVAC whether for new construction or replacement.

1.What is the builder budget/allowance?
2.What comfort level are you looking for?
3.Upfront cost not necessarily same as item #1 if you elect to upgrade
4.operational cost and efficiency of new HVAC
5.correct sizing of both new HVAC and ductwork (has GC or HVAC sub made his calculations and reviewed them with you?)
6.good quality equipment
7.good install from a dealer who has excellent qualifications.

The more the homeowner knows, the better chance for an informed decision that will lead to a successful install and a satisfied customer.

Now, everyone knows fuel rates are on the rise, especially fossil fuels like nat gas,propane, and oil. After looking at your fuel costs, you obviously would be candidate for a geothermal system. As a rule of thumb, they are usually two to two and half times the cost of a conventional system. But for the moment, I will assume you want a conventional system and will live in this home for the forseeable future.

I have used your rates and for efficiency used a COP of 2.75(HP) and an AFUE of 93%(furnace)-tried to be conservative. Numbers were plugged into fuel comparison calculator.

Cost per 100,000 btu of useable heat
Electric baseboard: $1.89
Heat pump: $0.76
Natural gas: $1.34

You are a great candidate for dual fuel-a heat pump with nat gas backup furnace.

Now to your question about Trane and for disclosure I have a 3 yr old Trane dual fuel system myself.

First off, throw overboard the XB equipment, both furnace and AC. Low end. I would not have it.

for dual fuel
My budget choice would XT90 or XR90 furnace with XR14 heat pump
My premium choice would be XV95 or XV90(if available) with XL15i heat pump

without dual fuel-furnace with straight AC
budget choice XT90 or XR90 with XR14 AC
premium choice XV95 with XL15i or XR14 AC

My personal choice is XV95 or XV90(if available) with XL15i heat pump

Of course you will need a stat,matching evap coil for either AC/HP condenser, and some type of air cleaner cabinet.

I have to admit that Carrier Infinity and Bryant Evolution dual fuel systems with their sophisticated controllers are the best in the marketplace.

IMO

www.trane.com

www.carrier.com

Here is a link that might be useful: Fuel Comparison Calculator
zyll
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks for the advice.... I'll look into the heat pump - it sounds like a good idea. Can you tell me why an XR is better than an XL furnace? The functional descriptions in the Trane literature make the XL sound better (2-stage, cleanable filter, evertyhing else the same).
tigerdunes
16 years ago
zyll

The XL90 is nothing more than an XV without the var speed blower and I just think that a var speed blower is worth the difference.

BTW, my system is the XV90 with XL14i heat pump(the XL15i had not been introduced at time of my replacement-wish I had it).

Let me know if you have any questions.

Good Luck!

td
zyll
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks tigerdunes. My confusion about the XL is that it is actually *cheaper* than the XR or XT, which didn't make sense to me.

I appreciate your help - I hadn't even considered a heat pump this far north.
ryanhughes
16 years ago
The heat pump will run during milder winter weather, and when it can't keep up efficiently (at a certain temperature), the furnace kicks in.
tigerdunes
16 years ago
zyll

depending on your home's insulation qualities and if sized correctly, a high eff heat pump can be effective both in comfort and economically down to 30-32 degrees, sometimes even lower. Then the gas furnace backup kicks in to handle the real cold days. and I do know heat pumps are getting a second look in your area because of the relatively inexpensive electric rates. My calculations show a savings of 35-40% over gas when the HP is running and maintaining your home's inside comfort temperature. And please don't judge today's HPs against the older models-as different as night and day.

IMO

Please help select Trane models for new construction

Comments (8)

tigerdunes

zyll
Original Author

Related Discussions

tigerdunes

zyll
Original Author

tigerdunes

zyll
Original Author

ryanhughes

tigerdunes

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Please help select Trane models for new construction

Comments (8)

tigerdunes

zyllOriginal Author

Related Discussions

tigerdunes

zyllOriginal Author

tigerdunes

zyllOriginal Author

ryanhughes

tigerdunes

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

zyll
Original Author

zyll
Original Author

zyll
Original Author