wear your baby

a couple of comments.

The Bryant heat pump condensers that I suggested in your first thread were the new 2 stg Preferred 16 models. If you want more of an apples to apples comparison to the Trane system quoted, ask for the sgl stg Bryant Preferred 15 "H" model. see below.

3406040 Active Systems PREFERRED 15 PURON HP BRYANT HEATING AND COOLING SYSTEMS 265ANH036-B FV4CN(B,F)005 36000 13.00 15.50 36000 9.00 21800

you do want a 4-5" pleated filter media cabinet at a minimum. you might also want to consider a fresh air ventilator for good air exchange. Keep in mind new homes are constructed with a very tight envelope. Also, you might consider a whole house humidifier.

I see nothing special about your quote and the specifics.

I would insist on a thermostat that has "dehumidify on demand" capabilty, not what you were quoted. Both HW and White Rogers offer models.

I prefer a poured concrete pad for condenser over the plastic preformed pad. That's just my preference.

What size heat strip was recommended? Trane offers a 7/12KW split unit that I would suggest. As I recall you were going to install gas logs powered by propane which could also be used as backup heat on those extra cold days.

Ductwork seems fine as long as it is sized/designed correctly.

You have been quoted Trane's new XR15 which is fine. I do prefer Trane's XL15i because of the top. Many heat pumps along the Atlantic were simply overwhelmed during the recent winter storms. The XLi series gives you added protection.

just so you know, the performance/eff numbers for the XR15 and XL15i are identical.

let me know if you have any questions.

IMO
Good Luck!

wear your baby

I will assume you have thought about Geothermal but have dismissed this possibility because of price or land.

keep in mind conventional HVAC does not qualify for tax credit but geothermal does qualify-30% of cost with no maximum.

IMO

IMO

The price of geothermal is keeping us from that option. Otherwise, it would be our #1 choice for HVAC.

I emailed our HVAC sub and here are his replies on the topics you mentioned.

Media Cabinet: "media cabinet is included, but the one we offer is only a 4 inch media"

DO I NEED TO ASK FOR AN UPGRADE ON THIS, OR IS 4" SUFFICIENT?

Thermostat: "If you guys want to do some shopping around for a thermostat that does dehumidification, that fine"

Humidifier: "The cost to add a humidifier adds about $675. That price includes an IAQ thermostat made by Honeywell that will serve as a humdistat as well. Come to think of it that thermostat will also give you the dehumidification control that I think you are looking for. It will also operate the fresh air damper if we determine that we need to bring in fresh air. Typically a humidifier's expense to operate is pretty low as far as electricity, but the water consumption could be a bit high, as most operate on around 12 to 17 gallons a day."

I WONDER IF THE IAQ HE'S TALKING ABOUT IS THE VISION PRO--THIS IS A GOOD ONE, RIGHT? DOES THIS SOUND LIKE A GOOD PRICE FOR THIS ADD-ON?

Strip Heat: "As for the strip heat, the size would be a 10 KW heater that can be broken into to 5 KW section when set up with the thermostat. I personally can not see the purpose or benefit to break them into two 5 KW sections, simply because when the temps fall to low for the heat pump to operate, you generally want the the strips to be energized to take ofF what the heat pump can not keep up with. Thats why we design the strips to take ofF the additional load not the full load when the temps fall off."

DOES THIS SOUND OKAY?

THANKS AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR TIME ON THIS! I THINK I'M FINALLY GETTING THERE.

Your contractor's responses are very reasonable. The humidifier price including the IAQ is good considering the thermostat and configuration alone probably accounts for at least $200 of the cost. And the humidifier will involve some ductwork as well. That may be the way to get the humidifier, thermostat with dehumidification (make sure they set it up to do so), and possibility of adding a fresh air intake later at the same time.

As far as heat strips, what he said is true; however, he's forgetting that while the heat pump can't "keep up," it still produces heat at very low temperatures, albeit much less heat. This "cheaper" heat from the heat pump combined with only one of the heating elements in the air handler (or both as needed and determined by the IAQ thermostat which stages backup heat) is a more economical way to supplement the primary heat source, which is the heat pump.

I thought it sounded reasonable, too. I understand what you're saying about the split heat strips. Should there be a cost difference in splitting them into 5/5? I think I'll ask him to do it that way, unless there's a large price increase. We're maxed out on budget so unless payback is decent, we have to be very careful. Thanks again for your time and help! He was impressed with my "research" and I owe it all to you two guys!! ;)

I'm a dealer of Trane and Bryant:
First when are you going to have the system installed?
New equipment like Trane's new Air Handler hopefully will be coming out in the 4th quarter 2010. As a dealer I'm looking forward to Trane's new air handler.

Next a two stage Bryant 226A non communicating condenser with FV4C-3T would justify the cost. It's the best deal I as a contractor can give. Trane is coming out with their non communicating version of the XL16i to hopefully match Bryant

Next for Single speed
Trane 4TWR5036A1000A with the 4TEE3F39A1 price is very competitive at a couple hundred dollars less than Bryant 225A with FV4-3T
Trane has a 5yr part 10 yr compressor / Bryant 10/10

XL15i is very solid has the Trane patented top but it is more costly. It does come with a 10yr part 12yr compressor warranty

media filtration: I would recommend:

Trane: has the TFM235B0AH0 5" media
Bryant: FNCCABBB0021 4" media

you can spend more for the clean effects or bryant purifier but I'm a media replacement guy.

Thermostat
Trane: touch screen w/humidity control or the Honeywell IAQ
Bryant: T6 Thermidistat

Trane or Bryant are rock solid but ask your contractor of pricing on the 226A with FV4C-3T air handler using a T6 Thermidistat. it may fall into your budget.

wear your baby

first off, just curious, but how was a three ton system arrived at? I would want to see the load calcs in writing on the software letterhead. I would not sign a contract without seeing this. Typically new home construction qualities are very good with a tight envelope. This may mean a smaller system plus the need for fresh air ventilator and a humidifier.

I like your dealer's comment about the humidifier, HW VP IAQ, and fresh air damper for good air exchange. What brand/mdl of humidifier?

A 4" pleated media cabinet should be fine. What brand and model?

for the Trane, I would recommend the 7/12 KW two stg heat strip. ask dealer to check with Trane distributor. they do exist. I like the staged heat strip and most likely you would only use the low stg unless outside condenser had a breakdown.

did you get a price on the two stg Bryant Preferred 16 mdls that I listed in your prior thread?

IMO

Classicdave, can you comment a bit further on Trane's new air handler? That's good news. I've been waiting for them to redesign those huge cabinets--hopefully they do. Physical size limitations are often an important consideration.

ryanhughes,

Yes, physical size is of importance, I believe it is why Trane has been re tooling their air handlers.

Trane's new air handler will be foam insulated, which would be a blessing here in my state of Fl because this is so needed. No more condensation problems! This is great for humid climates and systems that are put in garages and attics. Also with the advancement of humidity control the systems of today may have a tendency to form condensation on the outside of the cabinet if the air handler is not in a climate controlled space.

It will be multi purpose with drain pans molded in the cabinet.
The coil will be a V coil and sit above the Fan. For me, this is a good idea because A coils are hard to clean in place. also no trap in the condensation line will be needed.

I believe it's going to be all aluminum evaporator coil.
There will be only 3 sizes one of the sizes
The height I believe is said to be 38" instead of the 58"
and I forgot the width but it won't be a 26" probably more like the 23.5 cabinet.

It sounds like it's going to be a well built air handler.

That sounds fantastic. I'm optimistic about the aluminum evaps and the smaller size. Thanks for the info. Coil above the fan certainly sounds different to me.

Hello,

I am newbie in this forum site.
The heating and cooling of your home is essential for the comfort of your family. Maintaining the system that provides the heating and cooling can be a challenge, but will save you money in the long run. Not only will the HVAC system last longer, but proper maintenance will also keep your energy bills from climbing.

One of the most common problems for homeowners is heat loss and inefficiency. Making sure your HVAC system is maintained properly will help it produce more heat with less effort, but there are other steps you can take to ensure the heat it produces stays inside for longer.

Here is a link that might be useful: Air Ventilator :: HVAC manufacturer and Supplier