By common definition, it is when the system operates for less than 6 minutes. ASHRE posted guidelines for equipment operation times, that claimed the equipment fails and looses efficiency after more than 6 minutes per 30 minutes. The SEER test has the equipment operating 6 minutes of 10 minutes multiple times during a 24 hour period.

Current design theory wants the system to operate almost continously. This does not give the equipment any time to recover from overheat. This may work in cold climates where the heat seldom exceeds 85 degrees. In a hot climate, where heat is 100 by noon, the equipment will prematurly fail.

SEER is a rating better suited to someone who generates thier own power and have limited energy. It does not relate to energy savings in a house that is connected to the grid.

The really high SEER systems use techniques to increase the SEER that are opposite of good design practice. One major design is to undersize the compressor and use funny math to claim the maximum HP. It real life, it can never sustain the rated output.

Motor design was perfected in the early 1900's. The only improvement was in adding a capacitor that reduces the energy to either start or run the motor. The capacitor stores energy and effectively doubles the voltage to the motor. This makes the motor draw less current. Any further design improvement to a motor will come with new super conductor materials that are still in the labatory.

Ok then, by either July or August, I will monitor the condenser outside and time it.

Thank you very much for the detailed explanation ;)

Short cycling happens in one of three ways,1 on pressure from one of several unfavorable conditions, 2 in an oversized system or 3 improperly placed t-stat and or registers. Which do you suspect is your problem and how did you come up with that deduction?

mr. havac,

I still don't have the a/c yet. It will be installed this coming Monday.

I was just asking on how to identify what a short cycle is. So when summer comes, I will monitor the condenser. If from bob brown's description happens in my case, then I will file a complaint and tell the vendor about improperly sized a/c.

From my understanding, short cycle runs in an interval of less than 6 minutes, off and on and off and on.

The only thing I understand about bob browns post is the 6 minute thing, I don't agree but I understand. As for the rest of his post, I have 30+ years on this trade and I have no idea what in the world he's talking about so I hope you can figure it out.

Some experts just don't understand the basics. While they know a lot about the subject, they are sadly missing basic information. Kinda like a math class that does not explain how to do long division, and uses a calculator only. While the long division is not necessary to do the division, it helps to understand the process.

I have discussed SEER and the basis for several steps. One such step is the length of the testing, and what it signifies. 6 minutes per 30 minutes is the recommended operating time that a motor is to run to prevent it from loosing efficiency. It may be a insignificant issue, but understanding the logic, can help to understand the overall lenghty process to define SEER. Unfortantly most HVAC service guys don't care, and continue to inaccurately assume precepts that are false. They have never read the SEER testing proceedure.

Government has reasons behind most actions. Some are self serving to an elected official, and some are good for the entire population. SEER is not necessarly good for all people. It is a good rating system for one who generates his own energy.

Because of the testing manupliation that can be performed, SEER can be adjusted to what one wants to see with little difficulity.

Bob, just what in hell are you babbling about??? The guy asked a question about short cycling and here you go again of on one of your medication induced half assed theories,,, GEEZ

Well BX,
I thought you said that you didn't understand my statement. I have said it many times in the past. Most people would understand my explanation about SEER by now, but you claimed ignorance. So I stated it again in a new description, hopeing you might finally understand.

Bob, why don't you just answer the question!! Why do you always have to go off talking about one of your adventures, or worse yet, one of your half baked theories. You have to contribute to practically every post but you hardly ever say anything of any use! Quite honestly I hardly ever completely read any of your posts. From experience I know its a bunch of crap. Like I promised, whenever you start putting down other techs I will knock you down off your homemade pedestal. You're a handyman bob, you install windows one day, probably do all kinds of crap work, and occasionally you do a half assed air conditioning call. That doesn't qualify you to give A/C advice. And quit making mention to my intelligence. I never claimed to be some kind of genious but when it comes to HVAC I can blow your sorry butt all to hell. Isn't it enough that every regular here has brought up your short comings? You're a twit bob. Practically old enough to retire, still lives at home with mommy and daddy and has a highly overactive imagination? If these forums ever fold up you probably will too. Now, keep putting other techs down and I will continue.

Short cycling:

Any person under 5 feet tall on a bike.

LOL Falling over when you come to a stop because your legs don't touch the ground.

garyg,

I lost my breath after reading your post. I laugh and laugh all night. People were wondering why I was laughing on the floor so hard. :) Even at the bed, wifey was hitting me with his elbow because I was still giggling. I couldn't forget it. Hahaha!

edit:

garyg,
I lost my breath after reading your post. I laugh and laugh all night. People were wondering why I was laughing on the floor so hard. :) Even at the bed, wifey was hitting me with HER elbow because I was still giggling. I couldn't forget it. Hahaha!

Should be HER, LOL LOL hahaha.

I guess I can't teach a 30 year old dog new tricks. The best I can hope is to teach one to roll over and die. Then there is one less to screw the public.

In all fairness this is the very type of service guy that I talk about. In N. Texas there are probably over 5000 service techs. If 1% is qualified to troubleshoot all problems, that means 50 guys around me know thier stuff. At the same time 4950 guys are poorly trained and think they are experts, while they are really not. I think I have met many of these guys. In Texas, to legally do service work, it does not take a license for anything. If you work for the owner, this is all that is necessary. At the same time, to sell equipment, you need a license and insurance. I sell equipment legally. I install equipment legally. I follow all code requirements. Most guys don't.

If I sell to a DIY, it will be done legally in this state. I don't want to go to jail for a couple of bucks. I don't want to add to the misery of techs in the future.

v1rtu0s1ty:

Glad I could help you (both technically and humorously).

Take care.

"I don't want to add to the misery of techs in the future."
Then why do you insist on doing it in the present in this forum? :-)

Shorty short cycling -- ROTFLMOL!!!

In Texas, to legally do service work, it does not take a license for anything. In the world, to comment on a webboard, it does not take a license for anything.

v1rtu0s1ty... from a practical point of view, you will recognize short cycling via continued spurts of the room being uncomfortably cold quite quickly, yet still humid. Then the system shuts off, only to come on again 15 minutes later to repeat same.

Now, since you have the previous advice of a thread on "sizing a system" that spanned 3,592 posts over 2 weeks, if you end up with it short cycling, then may I suggest that you look into the purchase of a bicycle... ;-)

Thanks dallasbill. I will monitor it. Currently, I still can't test the a/c since it's cold again here. We are back to 40s. I guess, I maybe be able to test it late May or early June.