Clydesdale

I have been following your noise saga.

There are three possibilities.

1.a faulty HP condenser
2.installation related including the pad arrangement
3.an overly sensitive perception to a specific type of noise

I am curious though. What exactly does your installing dealer have to say about this? Or has he just dismissed your concern?

IMO

He is coming on Tuesday. I have now gotten opinions from other people. At first they don't hear what I am talking about. I then shut it off and the low annoying tone goes away. Once they hear it, just like me, they can pick it out even with the TV on. When I go out side, the fan just has a low tone that is not terrible outside, so I don't know why the hell I can hear it inside. The couch is a good 15 feet away and on the second floor from where the condensing unit is. I NEVER heard the old luxaire. I would have to open the window to hear it. I cannot hear my neighbors Lennox, which is 25 years old and closer to my unit. But, I can hear this new thing and so can everyone else that comes inside.
My worry is that it is not horrible, just really annoying. My experiences in life tell me that I am going to have a fight on my hands.
I have a neighbor in a few buildings over and he used the same company and he has a low noise on his second floor as well. I am beginning to think that the XL15i fan or top my be created a low tone that penetrates walls, like bass in a car. For some reason it is worse on the second floor.
We both have the A/H in the attic, but the noise is condensor related. If I keep the condenser off, but turn the a/h on, it sounds nice and quiet.
I would love to as howserss on the other site about his noise resonance rubber blocks, but the silly AOP rules do not allow anybody but an HVAC tech to respond, not even with a follow up question.

I am just a homeowner so I certainly am not speaking from a position of HP experience. That said, I have a background in machinery quieting and vibration control.

Is it possible that the vibration from your outside unit is being transmitted to the inside of your home by one or both of your refrigerant lines? Can you access those lines at or near the entry point to your home? If so, you might grasp the line or lines firmly with your hands just inside your home and see if the nature of the noise changes or even ceases. If not, apply some lateral pressure with your hands and see if that helps.

clydesadale

I do feel for you because I helped guide you on your HVAC.project.

And please understand I am not insinuating you are not hearing a specific noise. I am just saying that the noise is apparently person specific to be classified as annoying.

These units are quiet plain and simple. I have never heard a complaint
like yours on the XL15i.

I really wish your installing dealer would call his local Trane rep and ask him to come to your condo on his visit.

While the pad arrangement looks good, I have to say I am suspicious of
it.

Besides the pad and the condenser location, I am wondering if condenser can be pulled back from it's present location perhaps a foot to allow sound board to be placed between the condo and the condenser. Condenser though has to be placed correctly for easy access to service the unit.

Keep us posted as to the observations and results from installers visit.

Good Luck!
TD

Tigerdunes, I do not fault you in anyway. I have heard from many people that this unit should be good.

I am afraid that they might say it is just me. So, I had 3 other people come over and they all can hear it and think it sucks. One said, "I hate to hear what a loud Trane heat pump is like". Then I told her, "you have it". She has a Trane xr13 and it is not nearly as annoying as this XL15i.
I have held the lineset with my hand and it made no difference. Yet, with my ear against the wall, it is loudest right where the lineset runs. The unit is not on any rubber noise isolators or pump-ups or snow legs. But, I don't see or feel a whole lot of vibration in it. I am afraid the tone is just deep. But, someone would have had to complain before me, if it was a known problem.

I think I will have to have the service tech come first and then if that fails go to the rep. I doubt they will have the rep come on the first service call.

As far as sound board, I may not be able to do that in a condo.

The crappy part is that the TV is not right above the HP, it is atleast 7 feet away from that wall and another 8 feet to the TV, all of which is on the 2nd floor.

But, down at the HP, it doesn't really sound much louder than the Lennox next to it. But, it sure does make its way into my condo.

Final suggestion. Take the largest flat blade screw driver you own and touch the blade against the tubing where it enters the house. Simultaneously touch the handle end against your temple.

Do you "hear" the offending sound louder or more clearly when you do this? (Think of this technique as building a poor man's stethoscope. lol)

If you are "hearing" the noise, try using the same technique at other locations - such as where the tubes connect to your inside unit and possibly half way along the inside run, and finally outside where the tubing enters the house.

In general. though not always, the "sound" will be louder nearest the source.

When I said "touch the blade against the tubing" I meant touch the end or tip of the screwdriver to the tubing so the screwdriver sticks out perpendicular to the surface of the tubing.

Funny story????

Many years ago we were at sea on our submarine for it's first time. The late Admiral Rickover was a board and he wanted to listen to a noise that we had reported hearing under certain conditions while testing dockside. This noise was so loud it could be heard throughout half of the boat.

The Admiral would not listen to us... he proceeded to use a large screwdriver as I suggested above. I still have the memory of him jumping back, high in the air.

The sound is like a pulsing drone. I think the pulsing should mean something. When I touch the lineset, I feel it pulse. Also, it most audible in the wall, exaclty where the lineset runs up. Yet when I would touch the lineset, it did not effect it. To hunt the sound down, I used my ear against the wall. Then I pulled out a medical stethoscope to confirm. The portion of the wall directly over the condensing unit is not as loud as the portion that is 5 feet further away, but has the lineset running behind it.
Also, the wall section ABOVE where the lineset exits in the attic does not have the noise. The damn thing sounds better in the attic and it does not have wall insulation or sheetrock. When I hold the lineset there, I feel the pulsing but not bad at all. It sounds like the lineset is just transferring whatever is causing the offensive noise.
I imagine the tech should shut the compressor off and just run the fan and see what that does. This way the fan can be ruled in or out. What do you think?

"It sounds like the lineset is just transferring whatever is causing the offensive noise. "

Suspicion confirmed. I gave my stethoscope away years ago. Drat. :-)

When you say you "hold" the line set I get an image that you are not grabbing it as hard as I think you should. I'd suggest leaning into the line set and see if it makes any difference.

Does the line set run unsecured within the wall cavity?

If it is the lineset transferring the noise, what is the solution?

Again, "Does the line set run unsecured within the wall cavity?"

I have no idea if there is a code requirement or industry standard to secure the line set every so many feet.

Clydesdale

Can't recall.

Did you use existing lineset? If so, did we not verify existing lineset size was correct?

IMO

The lineset is the original lineset. It is secure in the attic, but who knows if it secure in the wall. I would think yes, because I cannot move it much in the vertical section, when messing with it in the attic.
The lineset set is perfect. I think it is 5/8 and 3/8, which is what the xl15i was spec'd for.
I called trane and if necessary, there seems to be a way to get a field rep. I am hoping I won't need it. The problem is the noise is not horrible. But, it is damn annoying and should not be, or they wouldn't sell too many of these things. I am thinking maybe they can move the unit a foot further away from the wall and my unit and put it on isolators.

OK, the tech came out and is going to put the condenser on isolators. I would like to run something by you guys. He states that the Trane heat pumps heat better and run at higher pressures and that the trade off is that I may just hear the compressor pumping through the lineset. He also thought that having the lineset secured to a stud in the wall could cause the problems. I thought have the lineset unsecure could cause these resonance issues.
Can anyone else find hear there lineset in there wall?

Comments?

Clydesdale

I don't go along with those comments.

And I wouldn't make any change without an onsite assessment first by the Trane residential field rep.

It just seems to me this is a big jump from the condenser fan to a lineset issue.

IMO

"He also thought that having the lineset secured to a stud in the wall could cause the problems. I thought have the lineset unsecure could cause these resonance issues."

Based on my experience, either condition could lead to the problem.

Do you think putting it on rubber isolator waffles will diminish the resonance?

I would ask some of the knowledgeable HVAC people here what the industry practice is. Possibly some type of sound isolation mount would work... or simply "properly" fastening the tubing to structure.

Again, someone with installation experience would know what the practice is.

I would like to know if this was solved?
I have been in my house for six years (with a much older than that hp), this month for the first time I started hearing the helicopter (low, deep wopwopwopwop) the only place I hear it is in my corner bedroom, above the outside unit. The lines run inside a piece of gutter pipe, up the side of the brick exterior and into the attic, at the corner of the house/bedroom. Again, it has been quiet for six years and has just started.

Miemon

This thread is dead.

It s considered poor forum etiquette to hyjack a thread.

Start your own.

It is quite easy and you will get better help and advice.

Thx
TD