dan

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites.

My personal favs are Trane's XL15i and AmStd Heritage 15-
I like the electronic demand defrost that eliminates nuisance and unnecessary defrost calls.

You might consider adding whole house humidifier to the new system. Winter inside humidity should be in 35-40% RH. Ask quoting dealer to take some measurements.

What size heat strip do you currently have-probably a 7.5 or 10 KW?

IMO

Thanks for your quick reply
I think the heater model is BAY96X1414 and has 2 circuits 9.6 KW and 4.8KW.

Brand-wise, American Standard and Bryant are fine to consider. Units are more similar today than they were in the past as far as parts and reliability go.

For humidity in the winter, going to want a humidifier. I don't think bringing in outdoor air would help that much in the way of raising humidity, but I do like the idea of fresh air intake to any home. Whether that be opening a window once in a while or having a separately ducted fresh air intake.

Consider Luxaire which is part of York too. They are less expensive and their equipment is good also. Those are some very nice incentives your mentioning. With those type of incentives I would try to get the highest efficiency system avaialable.
Consider some licensed independent contractors. Sometimes they are less expensive than the bigger companies.

dan

with such generous tax credits, you have one of those rare opportunities that you should take advantage of.

I would get the best system on the market and slap a 10 yr ext warranty on it.

This would be one of those systems you should consider.

1382158 Active Systems XL15I WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWX5024A1 4TEE3F39A1 25000 13.00 16.00 24000 9.00 13800 (same system available from AmStd Heritage 15)

add Trane's two stg heat strip/7/12KW mdl, the HW Vision Pro IAQ and humidifier and you will have an excellent system.

IMO
Good Luck!

I recently bought Honeywell VisionPro 8000 TH8321U1006 thermostat. Would you recommend using it with the replacement system assuming it will be a high-end system?

That would not be my choice as I believe it handles humidity by overcooling rather than "dehumidify on demand" feature that controls humidity independently by slow blower speed. However, I see nothing wrong with using the 8321 HW stat as long as it accepts outside sensor for managing heat strip operation and it can control auxilliary devices such as a humidifier. you will need to check your owners' literature.

IMO

I have received the following proposals that I'd like you to commment on:

Bryant:
#1
3687151
Outdoor 265ana018
Indoor fx4dnf025
Heat Strip 8KW
Thermostat VisionPro 8000 TH8321U1006
Cost: $7,350 (after $600 manuf rebate includes 10 years parts + labor from Bryant)

#2
1452167
Outdoor 288ana024
Indoor fe4anf002
Heat Strip 8KW
Thermostat - Evolution
Cost: $8,825 (after $1,000 manuf rebate includes 10 years parts + labor from Bryant)

Bryant dealer reuses exisiting lineset at the prices quoted. The did load calculation and I have the printout but not sure what numbers are important.
He circled - Req. Total Cap at 0.70 SHR - 1.1 ton
Equipment load(heating) - 17,285

Carrier:
#3
Outdoor 25HPA6
Indoor FV4BNF002
Heat Strip 10KW
Thermostat - not sure(does this take Infinity)
Cost: $6,806 (after $1,000 manuf rebate includes 10 years parts + labor from Carrier plus new line set, pad, fused disconnect on indoor and outdoor units. New indoor unit complete with new media filter, emergency safety drain cutoff switch. Installation complete with modification and alteration of existing power wiring, control wiring, condensate drainage, freon recovery and system start up)

#4
Outdoor 25HNA9
Indoor FV4BNF002
Heat Strip 10KW
Thermostat - Infinity
Cost: $7,726 (after $1,000 manuf rebate includes 10 years parts + labor from Carrier plus new line set, pad, fused disconnect on indoor and outdoor units. New indoor unit complete with new media filter, emergency safety drain cutoff switch. Installation complete with modification and alteration of existing power wiring, control wiring, condensate drainage, freon recovery and system start up)

On both #3 and #4 a Carrier fan powered humidifier is a $495 add-on.

Please, comment on system characteristics and price as well as make suggestions.

I wanted to get a quote from York deals on ARIs 1416293 and 1416296 but the York dealers who came quoted me lesser systems at outrageous prices. Is it even worth it looking at these York sytems or just focus on Carrier as they appear superios in their pricing to Bryant.

dan

I have read this thread several times and reviewed your rather lengthy list of options in your post from yesterday.

I know nothing of your budget.

how long do you plan on being in this condo? any hot/cold issues in your condo? temp difference from floor to floor?

I really think most of the suggestions from yesterday are flawed and the pricing is absurd.

A two stg for a small condo is overkill. Infinity/Evolution systems are very nice but again not necessary and are overkill.

Here's what I would look for.

a two ton sgl stg Performance 15 with matching Performance VS air handler. add a Carrier Edge Thermidistat and Carrier prewired 9KW staged heat strip. you can decide about the humidifier.

here are the numbers.

3405830 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 15 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA524H31 FV4CN(B,F)003 23600 13.00 15.50 24000 9.10

BTW, same identical system/equipment is available from sister company Bryant. You want the "H" mdl heat pump if going Bryant or Carrier.

I would also look at my recommendation for Trane's XL15i or sister company's AmStd Heritage 15. Both have electronic demand defrost which is nice for your area/winter climate.

IMO

tiger,

Thanks for the response. I was going off your earlier suggestion "I would get the best system on the market and slap a 10 yr ext warranty on it" in asking for top of the line equipoment quotes. Could you pls elaborate what you mean by the systems being flawed and the pricing absurd?

I live in the DC area and indeed am finding that the pricing is very high based on my expectations. I was intially hoping to get something in the $6k range that includes the extended warranty and humidifier. That said I', looking for the best bang for my buck over 10 year period not necessarily the cheapest system. Could somebody recommend a good installer in the NortHern VA/DC area. What is a good ball park for the 2 systems you've recommended?

In terms of IAQ, I have dry air in winter and the second level is colder in winter warmer in summer but not too bad.

I appreciate your help.

dan

Bryant Q#1
1 1/2 ton system paired with non-VS air handler

Bryant Q#2
two stg two ton HP condenser paired with Evolution air handler mdl-note mediocre HSPF eff

Carrier Q#3
this quote was the best
two stg two ton Performance 16 HP paired with Performance VS air handler
correct stat would be Carrier Edge Thermidistat
still I think two stg condenser is overkill.

Carrier Q#4
two stg two ton Infinity 19 HP paired with Performance VS air handler not even the 003 correct mdl
with the Infinity air handler, you want the Infinity stat/control.
with the Performance Air handler, I prefer the Edge Thermidistat.
mediocre HSPF heating efficiency

again,it's my opinion that the two stg HP condensers are overkill. that's generally why I think quotes were flawed and of course the pricing for two ton systems speak for itself.

I think you can do better on equipment selection and pricing.

you asked and I answered. others may disagree.

so come back to the pricing for a moment. what would these four systems net out at after the rebate and all available incentives? that may be a clue as to why I think they are high and absurd.

I do like electronic demand defrost feature for your area and winter climate.

IMO

Thanks Tiger- this is very helpful
I awas leaning towards #3 but will have them price the systems you've recommended though I have no idea what a good price would be for them.

The prices I've listed for all the options are after the manufacturer rebates but before tax/state incentives. I don't believe that when comparing quotes we should take into consideration the tax incentives as they'll be the same across all quoting dealers given the systems qualify. Given your strong opinion about the absurdity of the prices, I'm wondering if these dealers raised their prices to capture all/most of the incetives available in my area. Maybe I have to go with independent installers rather than dealers for the brand - is that a good idea?

I'm pretty lost at this point as I've already spend 2-3 weeks getting people to quote and now appears I'm back at square 0.

Anny additional advice will be appreciated

Sorry but I have couple more questions. I've asked a Trane dealer to quote the system you've recommended and he comes at around $7k. There's one misunderstanding though - he claims that he can't use your recommended heat strip as it presumably requires 90 amps of power and my house doesn't have it (I only have 60 amps) and I think that he may be misunderstanding which exactly model it is. Can you please post the exact model number for the strip that goes with Trane XL15i?

Do you have any idea if there's a rebate on this system right now by Trane and if so how much is it?

Making one last attempt to get feedback as my previous two posts got none. I've finalized my selection to the following system:

AHRI: 3495389
25HPA624
FE4ANF002
Infinity SYSTXCC Thermostat
Carrier 9.0 kW staged Heat Strip
4" MERV 10 Filter
Carrier Fan Powered Humidifier HUMCCSFP
10 Years Parts and Labor Extended Warranty
New larger return air duct to living room to meet the needed airflow for new equipment
New refrigerant line set
New mounting pad, fused disconnect on indoor and outdoor units
Cost: $6,500 after Carrier rebates but before federal and state credits and rebates.

Is this a good price? If NOT what is a fair price for this job?

I feel pretty comfortable with the installer as they're long-term Carrier dealer and seem very competent and highly rated by BBB.

dan

a nice system with good pricing. with all the credits/rebates available, go for it.

3495389 Active Systems PERFORMANCE 16 PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HPA624A30 FE4ANF002+UI 23800 12.70 16.50 27000 9.20 16400

the 9KW heat strip is staged in 3KW increments as needed which is very nice.

IMO
Good Luck!

Hi,

The air source heat pump energy system is among the most popular chosen for use for those climates that are on the milder side. However, as manufacturers focus on the urgent need for more efficiency in their products, new technology is bringing to market those units that can stand the test even in the more extreme climates. The consumer is seeking those heat/cooling systems which provide the desired comfort level within the residence at the lowest energy costs.

Here is a link that might be useful: Air Ventilator