The pug is just being a puppy! When he is in the house I would have him on leash(with you) or in his crate at all times, so you are right there to keep this energetic pup from disrupting the household and then you can train him too! Make sure he gets plenty of exercise and enroll him in a good puppy class.
Barb

No dog, especially a 7 month old puppy, should be spending his days outside on a tie line! He desperately needs to be with people and other dogs to become socialized.

He should have been enrolled in puppy school four months ago - if you didn't do that, I hope you do it soon. A dog trainer can help you work through this. Neutering is important, but it isn't going to resolve this issue.

Go to a bookstore today and get a book on raising a puppy. The Dummies books are usually very good. As the saying goes, "you don't know what you don't know about raising a puppy."

Here is a link that might be useful: Pugs for Dummies

Graywings, I so agree with you about not keeping him tied, but I am desparate. I will tell you that both DH and I spend most of our working days outside, so we are constantly walking by our pug and petting and throwing things for him to chase. But I agree, it is far from a good life for a dog.

And we have done the puppy class. The last 10 minutes of the class, the puppies were allowed off their leashes and romped and played with each other. I could have watched forever, it was so much fun to see them run together and roll over each other. But when he tries this at home,my shih tzu has a major freak out and I am afraid they are really going to hurt each other. The shih tzu really tries to bite the puppy.

DH walks the pug daily for a good long walk.

I am at my wits end with this, trying to be fair to both the shih tzu and the pug.

My DD has a pug who is now, finally, 2. They waited too long to get him neutered (IMHO) because they thought they wanted to stud him, but we convinced them that was not a good idea (pet peeve).

He was NUTS as a puppy. Terrorized our cats and tried to play with the big dogs like he was one of them. He still tries to play tug with our 85lb lab, but other than that, he's finally turned into a classic pug...lays around. A LOT.

He sprays a lot and is dominant, too...we attribute that to the late neutering, but it could also be his personality. But we love that crazy guy. When he gets wound up, he's wound. Give him time and lots of attention...he'll calm down.

OK, I feel better knowing you are out there with him. I am not a dog expert, but our puppy trainer explained that older dogs will be tolerant with puppies up to a point. As a puppy gets older, the adult dogs get less tolerant of this behavior and warn the puppy to bring him in line.

A trainer who sees the two dogs interacting will tell you whether this is normal behavior and they are working things out or whether it is the beginning of a bad relationship and someone has to go.

I have an older and younger dog and went through the same puppy phase with my pug mix. It was cute to watch how my older dog would scold the puppy if she did something he didn't like-he really kept her in line.

She would bug him with wanting to play all the time and he was pretty tolerant of it, however if she crossed the line-he always would let her know. I tried not to interfere with their bonding and let them work out the dynamics of their relationship in the pack.

It's sort of like two different aged siblings growing up together.

I would give it more time and see if the dogs can't work out the relationship. If really bad fights happen, then I would look at working with a trainer on this specific problem-not just a general puppy class.

Overall everyday training would also be helpful for both dogs-Do you practice the NILIF method of training?

Daily walks, games, and training would help to calm the pug physically and mentally.

Soothing music, calming products for dogs like Comfort Zone with DAP (aromatherapy), Rescue Remedy etc. might be helpful.

Watch your pug closely outside as pugs over heat very easily and very quickly due to their short noses.

Pesky, how long did they wait to neuter him? Our pug is marking around the house too, which is another reason that he is now tied inside. I used to close off the kitchen and let him run around there, but now he is marking everywhere. I tried to get him neutered a few weeks ago (6 mos), but the vet couldn't do it. He is scheduled for this Thursday.

And thank you for the reassurance that he may calm down. I am praying.

This is a crazy household with the animals. The shih tzu is still trying to play with the cats who hiss at him and strike out with their claws, the pug is trying to play with both the cats, who jump to high ground and sneer at him, and the shih tzu who bites and snaps at him. This is NOT going according to plan!

Where do they sleep at night?
When my dogs were puppies, they were on a leash in the house, with me at the other end of the leash. This would give you control and also allow you to keep the pup under your watchful eye...the same goes for working outside, yes it is a pain but have your pup with you on a leash. I did this and he is now 2 yrs old and loves to garden.

Also, some vet clinics have puppy socialization classes.

Roobear, I guess we cross posted. What is the NILIF method of training?

And I am glad you reminded me about the aromatherapy thing. I remember the puppy class teacher mentioning that. I will ask the vet about it this week when I bring the pug in for his appointment. Maybe that will help.

So far this summer has been very cool here, but I will keep in mind about the heat. There is shade for him and we keep fresh water available for him always.

Kyliegirl, the pug sleeps in his crate in our bedroom, and the shih tzu sleeps with us on the bed. The pug is a good sleeper, thank goodness, and I have come to love his little pug snoring.

I am actually wondering if it is the shih tzu who needs the socialization classes. Perhaps the problem is that he has been an only, and pampered, furbaby.

Sounds like the shih tzu is the alpha here, I would suggest having 2 crates in your room...one for each dog.

NILIF stands for "Nothing In Life Is Free" and it's well known training method used to improve your dogs everyday behavior and teaches the dog to see you as alpha, and listen to your commands better.

You use the training method everyday, to make sure your consistent-it's more like teaching your dog good habits and manners. It has been very successful in helping people with dog behavior issues- lots of rescues and shelters use it when rehabilitating dogs for adoption.

If you research it on the web, you'll find tons of sites with info-below is a link to one.

The aromatherapy you can get at Petco or Petsmart- it's called Comfort Zone with D.A.P., it can be expensive. KV Pet is a another great pet supply with tons of stuff for dogs. There's also stuff that goes into drinking water, collars etc. all natural-not the medication form.

Here is a link that might be useful: NILIF method of training

Julius wasn't neutered till he was a year old. By then he was sexually mature and quite the brat.

My other DD has a male chihuahua and my male lab were both neutered late (both rescues) and they also have some dominance issues. All the other male animals were neutered as soon as their testes dropped, and no problems.

Your boy isn't too old, just about right age. He should be fine.

Roobear, your link is very interesting. I'll look more into that. And thank you for letting me know where to get the aromatherapy. I had thought it was something that you had to get through the vet.

Kyliegirl, I like your suggestion of keeping on a leash in the house with me at the other end, instead of just tied to the woodstove. I am going to give it try so that I can quickly intervene when things get bad between the two dogs.

Pesky, thanks for the feedback. I had a male cat die 10 days after being neutered after developing bilateral pleural effusions. I am convinced the vet did something wrong. I have switched vets, but I still get anxious about the neutering. I loved that cat dearly and had to put him down, as the vet said he would probably die w/i 24 hours and suffer.

I was thinking today that as crazy and energetic as this pug puppy is, he has the friendliest personality. Unlike the Shih Tzu, he has never snapped or tried to bite anyone. I really want to work this out and be able to keep him. Thank you for all the suggestions.

And my pug thanks you too.

{{gwi:1513964}}

Oh he is soooo cute!!!!

Hi Barb, you still here? First, congratulations for taking your pug to puppy class, and for tossing a ball for him and taking him for walks every day, and for asking for advice here! I'm impressed.

Thank you for asking for my advice. I am a trainer, and I've been working with animals for 47 years, so maybe I can give you some good ideas.

Good rule:
Always make sure you have all the animals in your home well trained, happy and under your control before you add another animal. A new animal almost never cures a bad situation; he usually makes it worse.

Bad rule:
If you get a dog you should keep it forever no matter what.

Nonsense! You and DH need to do some pro/con paperwork independently, then talk it out. Be honest with yourselves and find the solution that is best for everyone. Right now you are all miserable. No more of that, okay? Neutering and placing the puppy may be perfect for you all.

Yes I'd neuter the pug immediately. Between 4-6 months of age is best for the boys, IMO.

I would only keep the pup if I could agree to the following "Barb rules rules"...

1.) Barb deserves modern conveniences and has every right to insist on them. :o)

Tying a dog up is a horrible plan that will give you and the dog more problems than it solves. Barb deserves a fenced yard AND an indoor/outdoor kennel. (Before building one you'll want to read several articles.) Look for a deal on matrials or services on CL, or Angie's list for fencing companies. I like a solid wood perimeter fence and a chain link kennel. Kennels should be long and narrow, never square if you don't want poop all over the place.

The I/O kennel (used for both dogs) will stop dirt being tracked into the house if it has a cement floor. If it's a fence inside a fence it will stop neighborhood kids from teasing dogs or letting them loose. It will allow you the freedom to be gone for a work day AND join a friend for a birthday drink after work once in a while without guilt. Every dog owner should have one! (An I/O is NOT an excuse to leave a dog alone overnight or while you're on a trip. That's a huge no-no.)

2.) Barb deserves a clean house.

You are smart to neuter the pug immediately. Best time for boys is 4-5 months, IMO. It's not a miracle cure, but with training it should help.

Buy or sew 2 (or more) belly bands for the pug so you can have one in the wash and 1 clean. (CLICK HERE to find articles, directions.)

Wearing the BB inside (with 1/2 kotex in it) will stop him from wetting your carpets and furniture. It will allow him freedom inside your/his home. If it gets wet toss it in the wash and give him a dry one. Only check it when it's time for him to go outside. Wearing a wet BB is a real turnoff for him and the BB will help you housebreak him. He should wear it inside at all times until he has kept it dry for eight contiguous weeks. Then you can try short times without it. Ebay sells them cheap.

Please use baby gates or doors if you need them, or a crate (but only for short times), but no tying him up, please. The I/O kennel is best for when you can't watch him. Watch him like a hawk for a minimum of the next 8 weeks on housebreaking. Don't keep him penned away from you as he's not learning anything that way. There is no substitute for parental supervision.

Use a clicker and teensy meat or cheese treats to housebreak your puppy, and TAKE (don't send) him outside at regular, predictable intervals no more than two hours apart for now. Be sure to take off his BB when you take him outside. You will be shocked and amazed at how well the clicker works for housebreaking! It's way harder without it. Be super religious about it for 8 weeks. Then stop using the clicker but continue to use food treats every other time, every third, and so on. Keep using praise, and you can use chest/butt scratches as rewards when you don't have food. Once he's getting the idea of going outside for you really well, start adding a cue word like "pee" or "hurry up." See the articles at clickersolutions for how to add a cue. Once he's been dry and clean indoors for 8 weeks solid, you can start sending him out without you. But every once in a while it won't hurt to go out and click and treat him just to remind him and keep the behavior strong.

Meanwhile, I'd get all the dog pee/poo stink out of the house so well even the dogs can't smell it. Nature's Miracle is great. I've used Clorox in my carpet cleaner (test inside a closet first!) many times safely. It totally kills stink and germs.

3.) Barb deserves super-well-behaved animals.

Please read all the articles at www.clickersolutions.com. They have a list, too, where you can get personal help. Then look for a teacher HERE. If a teacher you call isn't available (the list may be old), ask who s/he recommends. Then sign up for a class. You take one dog and have DH take the other if you like. You and your dogs will LOVE it! It so fun and easy.

I would make a game out of training your dogs throughtout the day, rather than thinking of it as a 10-minute a day exercise. Make it a way of life. I'd teach both dogs obedience, and lots of fun tricks, and especially make sure you have great long sit-stays, down-stays, and very solid comes, and "go to your rug." This will give you great tools to stop the dogs from bugging the cats or each other. When I see a dog heading for trouble, I will cue him to do a trick and he gets a reward and forgets about the trouble.

BTW, you can also clicker train your cats and there is a cat clicker list that will help you but you need to google for it as I'm not allowed to give you that info here, sorry.

4.) Barb deserves peace of mind.

To get peace of mind we need realistic expectations.

Nothing will make a puppy not be a puppy except time. Aromatherapy will not overcome millions of years of doggy evolution and it will only last until it runs out and you buy more. Frankly, I wouldn't bother as it's not permanent. Training is permanent.

If you want a pup who is calm indoors, do your best to make him tired, tired, tired with lots of exercise. I think you already know this and already work on it.

Stop worrying when your pup attacks your Tzu or your Tzu tries to play with your cats. Let them work it out and only intervene if it's getting really serious.

Please know that many Shih Tzus are very vocal. It's a Tzu thing. Ignore it! When my 9 lb Hav "attacks" my 14 lb Tzu mix, the Tzu sounds like he's being killed. He's not. They're just playing and a little exercise is good for the Tzu. I have learned to ignore it. They'll work it out.

Adult dogs often tell puppies to knock it off. They may have to nip to get their point accross. This is good for the puppy and your adult is doing what he should. A puppy that learns to accept discipline from an adult dog is a happy and more manageable puppy for you. I know it's hard, but ignore the normal doggy stuff, the growling and a squeal or two. It will get easier with practice. Dogs are going to be dogs and that is OKAY. Really.

Your Tzu's reaction to being so roughly pounced on does *not* indicate that the Tzu hates the puppy -- merely that the Tzu is establishing his rightful dominance over the puppy and he's being a typically noisy Tzu about it. Both dogs are behaving in a totally natural and healthy dog way, so don't worry!

Times to be alarmed:

- One of your dogs or cats makes a very bad very loud alarm noise that you have never heard them make before.

- You see blood... and plenty of it. A nicked ear is time for concern, as in stop what's going on and keep your eye out for future escalation. But it's not time for alarm particularly.

- A dog that has another dog by the throat and is shaking is time for huge alarm and probably a new home for one of the dogs. Google "how to break up a dog fight." Every owner of two or more dogs should know how.

I feed my dogs separately. Food and toys are always catalysts for doggy arguments. If mine fight over a toy, I confiscate the toy and only give it when they are separated.

If I were willing to do the above, I'd keep the pup.

If I were not willing to do the above, I'd still neuter the pup. Then I'd lovingly place the little tyke in a super home. I would not feel guilty about it. I would stop getting new dogs. I would work with training and enjoying the two cats and the Tzu so that everyone in your house is happy. So to me it's kind of a choice -- do you want to train four animals? Or do you only want to train three?

Thanks Oceanna for writing such a detailed response. You've given me a lot to think about.

I'm going to read it again tomorrow. I'm a bit unfocused tonight as I just finished the Rolling Stone article on Goldman Sachs and my head is spinning. But that is a subject for HT. But I did want to acknowlege your response and thank you for it. I will study it closely with my morning coffee in the a.m.

Barb, thanks for letting me know you saw it. :o)

Yeah, isn't that a killer article? Yikes! I want to spend more time on that article. With your situation going through my head and the normal interruptions, my own brain got tapped out tonight, so I know what you mean.

Sorry my response got a bit disorganized; organization isn't my best subject! Feel free to ask any questions. Oh, and with a clicker you can train your cats to back away from the Tzu and your Tzu to back away from the cats if you want. It's not hard to do. Have a nice sleep and we can talk later.

Oceana, again, thanks for your reply. DH has read it as well. And I'm sure we will be discussing it more.

I think the first thing is to get this guy neutered (scheduled for later this week.) And I had never heard of belly bands. I have been very afraid that he will keep marking even after being neutered and that would be a deal breaker, but the belly bands give me a way to preserve my sanity should that not be the case.

And yes, Barb does deserve a fenced in yard! I am trying to convince DH of that. We had one for my first dog, and it makes life so much more pleasant for dog and owner.

And the two classes that the pug attended used the clicker training. We fell off the wagon on it when the growing season started (and I have to admit, DH was doing the great majority of the training, my bad) but we obviously have to start again, once the pug recovers from the neutering.

As for the fighting, the pug is bigger and heavier at this point, and the shih tzu gets so upset. The vet told me not to let them interact that way, that the shih tzu will shut down and get depressed. I don't know what to think.

As for finding another home, yes I feel guilty. I have thought that if someone I know and trust would want this puppy, I would give him up readily. But to hand him off to a stranger and not really know how he will be treated, or if they will sell him, I don't know. I feel a strong responsibilty for this dog.

If it comes to re-homing your dog, contact a pug rescue.

I work for a breed-specific dog rescue, and the adoptive homes my fosters have gone to are wonderful.

Thanks Graywings, that is good to know.

Yes, the belly bands are great and I think you're right to get him neutered. But, I don't think neutering him is going to settle him down much because he's just being a playful puppy, and he'll still be a playful puppy after being neutered.

Pugs and Shih Tzus are both brachycephalic. Therefore, their hearts and lungs have to work a lot harder than a non-brachecephalic dog to keep them cool on warm days. I worry about my Tzu boy a lot more in the summer. Breeders will tell you Pugs and Tzus are indoor dogs only, never outdoor dogs. That is because twenty minutes of a brachycephalic dog being too hot can kill him! You may have already known that, but everyone reading this who has a brachycephalic dog should know it too. Tips for owners of Brachycephalic dogs.

Click HERE for a good article I found you about tying a dog up and the behavioral problems it can cause.

A common Tzu trait is to be jealous. Many of them do not want to share their owners with another dog. Your Tzu may be happier as an only dog. You could use a clicker and treats to fix his going after the kitties.

If the Pug is bigger and heavier and is not taking NO for an answer from your Tzu, your vet is completely right, you have to prevent their interacting that way. Pugs do play hard and some of them want to play 24/7, whereas many Tzus just want to play for a few minutes and then nap.

If you decide to keep the Pug, it means for the next 7-15 years you are going to have to make sure your Pug isn't upsetting your Tzu. Sounds like a heck of a lot of work and hassle to me! Are you sure you want to do this?

Greywings made a great suggestion, to work with a rescue if you decide to rehome your Pug. Those folks know how to screen people, and what to look for. A responsible rescue will make sure the Pug gets neutered, too, if you decide to let him go now.

If you decide to keep the Pug, then I'd just set up a plan. I'd neuter, use belly bands, and both you and DH train like maniacs for the next 8 weeks.

At the end of the 4 weeks, I'd re-evaluate. Are you both being super good about training? Be honest. Are you seeing results? If yes to both questions, keep training for another 4 weeks.

Re-evaluate again at the end of that 4 weeks (after 8 solid weeks' training). Have you solved your problems? Do you have two wonderful dogs who can live happily together with each other and with your kitties? If yes, then everything's fine (though you should do "touchup" training sessions every so often). Congratulations! If no, then you promise each other it's time to find a good home for the puppy.

Does that sound like a good plan to you?

Yes, it sounds like a good plan.

Clicker training has resumed. And the shih tzu is going to be added to the class (I know, one at a time to limit distraction). The pug is quite smart and we are working on reviewing sit, down, and stay. But how do I teach "leave the shih tzu alone?"

I am happy to read that your training has resumed, from an early age I taught mine 'leave it' command. I tried clicker training and it was not for me...if that works...go for it! You have lots of excellent advice here from everyone....

my sister has a dog that is a spoiled brat, she is in clicker training at my urging and it is helping some...one thing the trainer told her was to stop having the dog sleep with them. (resource gaurding)
Has shown aggression to babies on the floor playing. Anyway....good luck with your dogs!
Barb

Barb, I did wonder why you asked about where they slept. Now that you mention it, the Shih Tzu will growl and move up in front of me while I am lying in bed, if DH walks over to my side of the bed. He doesn't do anything when DH is in bed with me. Interesting.....

The vet said that the Shih Tzu could have some Lassa in him. I guess there was a time when they were interbred, and the Lassas were more guard dogs.

Clicker training has resumed. And the shih tzu is going to be added to the class (I know, one at a time to limit distraction).

Do you mean you signed both dogs back into a formal clicker class and you are taking one while your DH takes the other? I have no problem with you taking both to the same class at the same time, at all. They need to learn to work with distractions. I didn't mean for you to take them back to class though. I meant for you and DH to work them around the house every day on your own. I think it's hands-on practice that is needed most. But you said DH took the pug, so if you haven't been to a clicker class it would be good for you to go and have an instructor observe your technique, timing, treat delivery, body positions and so on.

The pug is quite smart and we are working on reviewing sit, down, and stay. But how do I teach "leave the shih tzu alone?"

I'm sure both dogs are smart.

Pug heads for tzu and you give the cue sit, or down, or come and have him stay. Reward him. It's called an "incompatible replacement behavior." IOW, laying down is incompatible with bugging the tzu. If your training is good you should always be able to head him off the tzu.

Another thing you can do is c/t the dogs for backing away from each other and from the cats, and c/t the cats from backing away from the dogs. You can put all that on cue.

If I were looking for a class for the pug I'd look for one that has off leash play in each session. You didn't answer my question but it sounds like your pug dearly needs an older gentle dog to put him in his place. Pug bugs old dog, old dog growls. Pug keeps bugging, older dog knocks him down, stands over him, and doesn't let him up till he settles. Pug gets up and he's a NEW dog! Note, older dog does NOT put holes in pug. You may have a friend with a fenced yard who has such a dog. Or you might call around to doggy daycares and tell them what you're looking for, then leave pug in daycare for a couple of days until older dog puts him in his place. Because a pup who thinks he can push around adult dogs sooner or later is looking to get into a serious dog fight. Dogs need to learn their manners around other dogs.

I would set a schedule for what to work on around the house. I would phase out the clicker as soon as each behavior is on cue. I'll list some things I'd work on in the order I'd work on them (I want recall strongest, attention next strongest, and I don't want to start with sit or down as I don't want them as begging behaviors). I would start the first behavior. When it was about 90% solid, shaped just as you want it and with the cue added, I'd add another behavior and put the first one in review... and keep going that way. I don't know if a behavior will take you a few hours or a few days to get to the 90% so I can't say how long it will take to do this. I'd just get started.

Please see: http://www.clickersolutions.com/articles/#behaviors

Recalls
Attention
Targeting
Leave It
Retrieve
Heel
Loose leash walking
Sit and sit-stay
Stand and stand-stay
Down and down-stay
Go to his rug

Then work on husbandry behaviors like getting in and out of crate, car, bathtub, good front door manners, grooming things like nail trims, and so on.

Problem solution like c/t for not jumping on people.

You can teach your dog to back up on cue and also use that when he's about to harrass dog or cats, or guests, or get into mischief.

I'd get a good clicker trick teaching book or video and start teaching tricks... spin, roll over, bow, shut the door, and so on. Just keep teaching new things. I'd intersperse fun trick teaching with serious stuff teaching.

Always keep training sessions brisk, loads of fun, and give out lots of treats. Be a scientist when planning out what you're going to do and be a valley girl cheerleader type while doing the training. You might check your library for clicker books and videos. Amazon.com often has used books and videos at very low prices too.

You can always c/t a dog at any time for doing something that you like. You can set up 5-minute sessions every hour. You can do training setups and have friends help you.

Oh, you can also c/t the cats for backing away from the dogs.

And good for you for getting back to the training, Barb!! :o) Let me know if I can help.

bump for Barb

Oceanna, I meant that I am doing home schooling. Had some classes today- pug is getting pretty good with sit, and did sit when he went after shih tzu, but I didn't have the clicker or the treat in my hand at the time. So, only sat for a brief second, then went back to shih tzu.

Tomorrow am is his date with the vet. I get very anxious, as I had that bad experience with my cat. I will be on pins and needles for the next 10 days.....

When you don't have a clicker or treat in hand, say "good" and give dog a chest or butt scratch, or let him in or out, or toss his ball for him -- there is almost always a way to reward a dog. Good idea for now to keep doggy cookie bits in a baggie in your pocket, though. Never click without treating. Your click is your promise to treat.

What happened to your cat?

Neutering a little boy dog is a pretty simple and not very invasive process. My Havanese didn't seem to even notice anything had happened. My Tzu licked himself raw until I put little (human) boy panties on him (tail out through the fly hole). Then he spent the next four days being absolutely sure that dogs die from wearing panties, and especially if they move. Tzus are such drama queens! I'll bet your pug will sail right through it.

We'll be sending him healing vibes. Keep us posted!

The little guy is at the vets now, maybe even under anesthesia as I speak. I did pay the surcharge for the laser, which will hopefully make his recovery faster and less painful.

Oceanna, years ago I had a male cat neutered at 6 mos. When I picked him up at the vets, they gave me ampicillin to give to him. At that time, I had never had a pet neutered and I thought that was just standard procedure. Ten days later, I noticed the cat could hardly breathe, brought him to a different vet who took an xray which showed large pleural effusions (a lot of fluid) on each side of his lungs. The vet told me that the cat would probably die w/i 24 hours, and she advised putting him down. When I asked what other option, she said putting chest tubes in each side to drain the fluid and try to figure out what it was. She was not at all optimistic. I know in humans what a chest tube is like, and the thought of a cat with 2 of them seemed like torturing the animal. I elected to put the cat down.

But why the ampicillin? I have strong suspicions that the first vet knew something had happened. Aspiration? Did they reuse an endotracheal tube? I don't know. All I know is that I brought a perfectly fine cat in to be neutered, and I got returned a dying cat. It can still make me cry to think about it.

Anyway, I think this vet is a good one. But I will be very uptight for the next 10 days. I even have my stethoscope out of storage, so I will monitor his lungs.

Guess I love this little pug more than a little. Hope I can make it work to have him a full part of the family.