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jenuwin_gw

A dog attack, please help me understand

jenuwin
16 years ago

My daughter had a beautiful dog, a mixed breed lab.

He was less than 1-1/2 years old.

They adopted him from a woman who had rescued him when he was very young.

He was very rambunctious and playful, and loved my daughter and followed her everywhere. My daughter also has a 11 year old daughter who also adored the dog, and the dog loved her. My Son In Law also was attached. Also my daughter does before and after school care in her house so the dog was very used to kids of all ages and sizes.

He was kind of like a big oaf as he would think nothing of sitting on your head if you were laying on the floor,(LOL) and whenever I came over he would jump in my car and look to go for a ride.

I am telling you all this so you can get a handle on what kind of dog he was.

He would have been in their house a year this February.

3 weeks ago, my granddaughter was standing at the front door, waiting for her friend (a boy her age) to come over. When he arrived, the dog barked (as he usually does when anyone came to the door), and all of a sudden when my DGD opened the door to let the boy in, the dog attacked him and bit his face.

The boy needed over 100 stitches.

Now let me make it clear. This boy was has been in the house before, and loved this dog, and also has a dog of his own. So this was not a "stranger".

He just was standing there waiting to come in when the dog attacked.

The dog is now gone...put down. The boy's wounds are healing nicely, and he even makes excuses for the dog, saying maybe he had a brain tumor that made him turn that day.

There is no lawsuit, nothing like that.

But my daughter and her family are heartbroken, and mortified to have had this happen, and to lose their pet.

They have another dog, a female who is 8 years old, that also loved playing with the new dog, and they used to curl up together every evening/.

Can anyone explain why a dog would turn like this?

Thank Goodness he didn't attack one of the children my daughter gets paid to watch.

But this boy was no threat to the dog, and wasn't even moving to come in yet when he attacked. Everyone was standing right there, and the boy did NOTHING wrong.

Can anyone make sense out of this?

It will be hard to ever trust a dog again, as we all trusted this dog completely.

Comments (49)

  • sammy zone 7 Tulsa
    16 years ago

    What did your daughter's vet say?
    100 stitches, my goodness.
    What other breed was in the mix?
    I am very sorry for your family. This is a real tragedy, and so totally unexpected.

    I am curious to any updates that they may get.

    Sammy

  • olga_d
    16 years ago

    It's really hard to say after the fact. It's possible that there was an underlying medical issue, as there frequently is in these "sudden" attacks. One thing is thyroid problems - they can cause unprecedented aggression, as well as some other symptoms like skin/coat and weight issues. When medicated, the symptoms (including aggression) usually go away.

    It could be something else, like a horrible ear infection that the owners didn't notice (and the boy reached to pet the dog and it freaked out), or any other pain issue like hip/elbow dysplasia (common in many large breeds, labs being at the top of the list).

    Sometimes it also turns out that there was a vision issue and the boy that the dog "knew" suddenly looked strange and potentially scary. Could be seizure activity also, or a disease like rabies or distemper even. Anyway, these are some of the things that I would suggest checking out with the vet if a dog displays unusual aggressive behaviour. Really, you'll never know what happened at this point - the only way to find out would have been to have a thorough exam and labs ran on the dog.

    I'm very sorry for your family's pain and suffering, and of course the little boy. :( Sorry for the dog too - he clearly was unwell either mentally or physically to do something so out of character.

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  • jenuwin
    Original Author
    16 years ago

    Thanks everyone..

    The dog was a lab/boxer mix..

    The vet had no answers either.

  • mazer415
    16 years ago

    I am sorry to hear that everyone in this story has lost. You may never find an answer to your question. Dogs can go off in a split second and all for the wrong reason in our world of reasoning. I could get into a hundred theories but they will only be possibilities. Unless I had been there to witness this I will never know myself. I hope everyone can recover fully from this tragic situation and move on.

  • daisyadair
    16 years ago

    If they are set on keeping the dog then I think they need to find a trainer who has dealt with this situation and have the whole family involved with the training.

  • mboston_gw
    16 years ago

    Daisyadair - the dog was put to sleep. She was just trying to get some possible reasons that this tragedy could have happened.

  • joepyeweed
    16 years ago

    Health issues aside, I would guess, its only a guess, that the dog sensed the boy as an intruder and/or a threat to the girl (his pack member)...

    But it could be any number of health issues stated above...

    And labradors have the highest incidents of dog bites than any other breed. That's because there are so many more of them than other breeds... but the gentle giants can and do attack.

    I had bet one of my friends that he couldn't get my lab to bite him. And so he teased her a bit, which she thought was fun play. Then he said, if I attacked you, she would bite me. I agreed, so we called off the bet.

  • Meghane
    16 years ago

    It is rare, but not unheard of, for male dogs especially, neutered and not neutered, to become suddenly aggressive at this age. It isn't clear why this happens, although hypothyroidism has been found to be a cause in some cases. Of course, in this case it can never be proven. In general, if no treatable medical reason for extreme sudden aggression can be found, it is better for the animal to be put down, especially when there are other animals and children present. And it would completely depend upon the family and home situation, risk to people and other animals, etc. whether or not behavior therapy can be safely instituted. I have seen this type of behavior one time in 14 years of vet tech/vet school, so it is not very common. But it is devestating when it occurs. The boarded behaviorist who worked with the one case I know of said that when this happens and medical causes cannot be ruled out, the dogs are inherently dangerous and she has not successfully made these dogs trustworthy and recommends euthasia in most cases. In the case I am familiar with, the dog was a neutered male 1.5 years old and he went absolutely nuts at the vet office. Unfortunately he became the same at home. It was like a switch was flipped and the dog was suddenly extremely aggessive, with no prior signs whatsoever. I am sure that nothing traumatic had ever happened to this dog, he had been to the vet before, and was just there for routine annual PE and vaccines. It sounds similar as what happened to your daughters dog.

    I would emphasize that this is rare, from both my experience and the behaviorist. Of course it is completely understandable to not trust dogs right now, but keep in mind that this was one dog with a rare presentation- millions of dogs never do anything like this. My heart goes out to your family.

  • lexie1397
    16 years ago

    My first thought would be that the boy had done something previously to cause a change in your dog's perspective toward him. I'm sure the boy loved the dog and would never do anything bad intentionally. Especially with dogs that have been rescued, there could be lurking memories that cause odd things to happen.

    Maybe you could talk with the boy after his feelings are back in shape, to see if anything unusual happened. Even something totally innocent like sharing a cookie could make the dog sick, and he would certainly remember who it was that made him sick.

    My guess is in line with everyone else though, that something medically had probably changed.

    It is a great time to teach kids about good ways to interact with dogs though!

  • livvysmom
    16 years ago

    Wow -- what a horrible story.

    I have to say that this is the exact reason that I would NEVER consider a home with dog when I was looking for childcare for my oldest daughter. At one home I visited dogs were barking constantly -- the lady explained her chows were locked up in the laundry room while sleeping babies were in her living room. I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

    I hope the boy isn't left with scars (on his face or inside).

  • User
    16 years ago

    Dogs are territorial and it is instinct to have a pecking order---top dog, second dog, etc. If dogs are not put firmly in their place in the human chain---below all humans---the dogs will do as they do in nature---which is continually work at moving up the pecking order. Dogs only understand dominance/submission-----their pecking order is governed by those constants---a dog is either dominant to or submissive to another dog. They do not have nor do they understand equals.

    Boxers are an aggressive breed---the aggression was bred in for putting the dogs in a fight situation. That aggression is inherent, but differs in different dogs. But, the inherent aggression is there.

    A 1&1/2 year old dog is an early adolescent---and act like any other adolescent mammal---they are beginning to flex their muscles and start to find their place in society. Meaning the start of the climb up the pecking order.

    If is quite probable the boy broke a dog rule---one of the rules governing the pecking order. The reaction is that of a dog to a dog---since the dog probably viewed the boy and the girl as pack members, not pack leaders.

    The horrific damage to the boy is the result of not understanding the situation---the dog signaled his intent, but many humans do not understand how dogs signal intent. That is because humans act as humans----and do not see how dogs send signals. If the boy had been a dog, the event would have been much less injurious, since dogs seldom fight to serious injury.

    Many people feel love is enough to 'tame' a dog. Not so. If you treat a dog like a human, it will become a very confused dog. And a confused dog can be very dangerous.

    Dogs can be loyal companions, but they have to be treated as dog family members---not human family members.

    I have a rescued Rott/GSD mix dog who was very aggressive----or so it seemed. The problem was he did not know he was a dog---he had no rules nor was he put in his place in the pecking order. He barked at everyone and everything. He would attack anyone who came near the fence.

    Two yeas later, without touching the dog in anger, he is now a very contented dog---he has rules, his place in the family(bottom---my 3 year old GD can put him on his belly by pointing in the 'Down' signal) and love. BUT!!!!!! He is never left alone with children. Because children do not always follow the rules---and if they break a rule and the dog acts like a dog would act-----well, that is a scenario I never want to happen. Because kids can easily forget to act like pack leaders---and when they do, they cease to be pack leaders----maybe only for a moment, but that moment is all it takes. Humans must always remember dogs work on instinct and training----not the other way around.

  • dobesrule
    16 years ago

    Some dogs at that age are beginning to mature and can become extremely territorial. Could be that it was not this boy in particular but he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time when the bite happened. There is also a medical problem called Rage Syndrome. It tends to be more common in some breeds than others, Springer Spaniels for example, and is thought to have a genetic factor involved. It is rare tho but a dog exhibiting true Rage is a very frightening animal. Absolutly trying to eat you one moment and your best friend the next but they have a strange look about them like they really don't realize what just happened.

    Lisa

  • cindyb_va
    16 years ago

    One of the things I have come to realize over the years is that dogs do not think like we do, so when something like this happens, it is not really possible for us to understand the dog-logic that caused the attack.

    The boy probably did do something wrong in the eyes of the dog; but not something we would ever perceive as wrong.

    Another issue with the dog is that he was a mix. Mixes are often not the product of two different purebred parents (i.e. lab/boxer), they are usually a mix of a mix of a mix. The dog may have looked most like a lab, and somewhat like a boxer, but he could have had one of the gladiator breeds in his gene pool someplace. (I have a neighbor that owns boxers, they are quite excellent family pets).

    If I had young children, I would never get a mix of any sort. I would always get a purebred from a reputable breeder that specialized in well mannered, pet-quality animals (as opposed to show quality or sporting qualifications).

    IMHO, mixes are too risky when there are young children at home. I am all for rescuing mixes, that is the only kind of dog I have ever owned, but I would not recommend a mix to a young family.

    I am sorry for your situation, I know that has been hard on your family.

  • sammy zone 7 Tulsa
    16 years ago

    I am back to the 100 stitches in a boy's face.
    Have you suggested to your daughter that she get an attorney just in case?

    I am sorry to be the one to suggest this, but it would not hurt to find out in advance what her position is. If that child needs plastic surgery, I think she ought to have some professional advice in advance. Everyone can smile and be sympathetic, and suddenly things and people can change when money is involved. If she were my daughter, I would like for her to know in advance what to say, and what not to say. I would like for her to know what to say to her kids, and to tell them to only speak about this to certain people.

    Good luck.
    Sammy

  • sue36
    16 years ago

    I've known of dogs that suddenly become territorial (about their home or their people), like a light switch. Or maybe the boy and girl played rough at some point (wrestling, etc.) and the dog saw this and now viewed the boy as a threat?

    This story is a good reason why people with dogs should not have daycare in their homes. It could have been so much worse.

    My sister has an Akita that is seemingly the sweetest thing in the world. She will put up with anything. BUT, she will not tolerate ANY movement towards my niece that the dog doesn't approve of. Then the teeth come out. She'll put them right on you and not dig in, but she could. The dogs seems to have good control of her protective instincts. Maybe the OP's daughter's dog did not.

  • sable_ca
    16 years ago

    I agree with Sammy. I would not assume that there won't be a lawsuit, no matter how friendly these people seem. They may still be absorbing the shock and have not yet seen all the medical bills. A lawyer's advice would be a good investment for your protection.

  • daggett
    16 years ago

    Your daughter might want to call her insurance agent. I think this would be part of the home policy.

  • gabro14
    16 years ago

    I completely agree about calling your insurance company. I'm not sure I'd call a lawyer just yet, because if they don't sue then you'll be paying a lawyer for nothing. Whether this family are good friends or not, 100 stitches in the face could definitely lead them to eventually sue. But they might be able to sue through your homeowner's policy - so you might not even need a lawyer if they choose to sue. Not sure how it works.

    By the way...for those wondering if the boy did anything (like someone mentioned wrestling or playing rough), the OP wrote in her first post:
    "But this boy was no threat to the dog, and wasn't even moving to come in yet when he attacked. Everyone was standing right there, and the boy did NOTHING wrong."

    And to the OP, I am so sorry this happened.

  • weed30 St. Louis
    16 years ago

    I don't know that I'd call the insurance company until it was absolutely necessary. Many insurance companies are great until you actually have a claim. Even *asking* about if she's covered for this incident could flag her account as 'high risk'. I have an agent that I trust, so I know I can ask him 'what if' questions without fear of him logging it. If she has one like that, she should be ok to inquire.

  • sammy zone 7 Tulsa
    16 years ago

    My concern is with what they could say that would make them sound at fault. Just as we are conjecturing here, the family could be playing maybe, what if, etc. Instead they may need to cease discussing it, and form an affirmative statement. They also could find out what the Vet and his employees should and should not discuss. One of the Vet's groomers could chatter away to the wrong person, and suddenly that statement could cost the familly.

    I only say this because I have taught school for years and years, and if there is a happening, we are instructed to talk to "no person". We have been told that the most innocent statement from us could be twisted, and could hurt our school.

    I have been thinking about your grandchildren talking to their friends in school. Of course it is now water over the dam, and maybe I just watch too much TV. We really trust our insurance agent, but a paid attorney may end up being the best friend - especially if the insurance company lets you down.

    If the number 100 stitches is accurate, and if it is a child's face, the investment of an attorney might be worthwhile.

    Sammy

    Sammy

  • gabro14
    16 years ago

    Very good points Sammy.

  • laurabs
    16 years ago

    Having had a dog with a slow-growing brain tumor, I agree this dog probably had a brain tumor or other medical condition that put his brain off balance. In our case, our Misha tore our other Siberian's ear nearly off, and it had to be sewn back on. When Misha would have one of her spells during the last 2 months of her life, the couple of times I tried taking her to the vet so we could finally get a vet to see what was going on and explain it, she did make some clumsy attempts to bite.

  • sammy zone 7 Tulsa
    16 years ago

    Where is op?

  • turtlepie
    16 years ago

    Hello. I am the daughter of the OP. It was my dog,Jett, who attacked and bit my daughter's friend. Thank you for your words of advice and concern. This has been a nightmare. I know I will never understand why Jett attacked. But I can tell you with 100% certainty that the boy did not provoke Jett in any way. Not at that moment or anytime prior to it. I have wondered - since my daughter was standing at the door to allow the boy inside - if Jett felt he was protecting her in some way. But that leaves the question of WHY he felt the need to protect her then but never any other time when she's stood at the door to allow a visitor inside. I'm coming to terms with the fact that I will never have the answers to these questions.

    ps - i dont know if anyone remembers me from several months back. Here is my post - http://ths.gardenweb.com/forums/load/pets/msg091507256079.html
    Jett had been doing so well since being put on the medication/behavior modification. He wasn't tearing the house up anymore. He actually loved his crate - as long as I didnt lock him in - and I'd find him sleeping peacefully in it when I returned home. He was a great dog. Then suddenly in the blink of an eye...he wasn't. I still can't come to grips with it.

  • turtlepie
    16 years ago

    Here is a picture of my boy.
    {{!gwi}}

  • Gina_W
    16 years ago

    I'm so sorry about this turtlepie. We just all need to remember that even though our dogs are our children, they are not human. They are dogs, and dogs may bite.

    I believe we should treat dogs' biting capability with the utmost care, management and respect. And particularly around children, our dear dogs should always be supervised by an adult.

    We've seen posts here over the years that are similar to the OP's - dogs who had never bitten before suddenly biting, and most often a child. I was bit on the hand by a neighborhood dog when I was little. Back in the day when dogs used to roam free.

    Most dog bites are to children, and most of those are to the face and head. Noone really knows the mechanism of this phenomena, only that it happens. But clearly, dogs do not view children and babies in the same way they view adult humans.

    Having said all that, I don't believe there is anything you could have done to prevent what happened turtlepie. You had no way of knowing such a thing was going to happen. Poor child. I hope his face will heal alright.

  • User
    16 years ago

    Quote-Jett had been doing so well since being put on the medication/behavior modification. He wasn't tearing the house up anymore.-Unquote

    Can anyone else see the problem here? A young dog having behavior problems---all pointing towards aggressive or dominant behavior---and left unsupervised around human children who had no idea of how dogs act.

    Dogs bite human children in the face/head area because the dogs consider those human children as subordinant pack members---and dogs bite subordinant pack members on the head.

    Those are the facts. People who cannot understand those facts are subjecting themselves/others to the same mistakes over and over when around larger breed/size dogs. Smaller breed/size dogs act the same, they just do not have the ability to inflict as much damage to humans.

  • eandhl
    16 years ago

    I just want to say how sorry I am for all involved. It is so sad to see a pet you love turn and do something like this. I agree with above posters "there is nothing you could have done to prevent this". Weather it was a medical condition or a phychological one you will never know. I hope the boy wounds heal completely and I am glad he has a good attitude and not terrified of dogs.

  • gabro14
    16 years ago

    Handy, keep this kind of discussion for the animal debate forum. Don't you have a heart?? This family not only lost a beloved dog, but they are dealing with the guilt of a hurt child. Do you really think they were able to foresee this? Nobody here attacked the OP and her daughter...but of course YOU had to.

    "...the dogs consider those human children as subordinant pack members" - I'm so tired of your lingo - get over yourself...YOU ARE NOT CEASAR MILAN, so stop parroting everything you hear from him.

    Oh, and by the way...the children WERE supervised, read the first post. And even with supervision, this could not have been predicted or stopped...it probably happened in a split second.

  • turtlepie
    16 years ago

    Handymac - did you read my original post or are you simply taking my one sentence and making your own judgements? My vet gave me NO INDICATION when I went to her with Jett's separation anxiety that this was a sign of aggressive behavior that I needed to be wary of. What she told me was that my dog was suffering anxiety attacks because of my absence and acting out. He NEVER did it when there was a human in the house. My first dog, also a lab mix, went through a period of separation anxiety as a pup as well, although not quite to the degree as this pup. I was told it's a common trait in Labs. She grew out of it and I had every reason to believe this pup would too as he matured.

    If you know this to be a sign of future aggression toward humans than you are equipped with knowledge that I was not given....not by my vet or in the extensive reading I did on the subject prior to making the decision to medicate him.

    Thanks again to those who responded with kindness.

  • cat_mom
    16 years ago

    My heart goes out to you, your family, and the boy who was attacked. How awful for all involved. (((hug)))

  • olga_d
    16 years ago

    I'm so glad someone else agrees with me! I'm tired of all this dominance theory junk and people thinking it's the answer to everything. Blah!

    Personally, I think that the reason there are so many dog-child bites is because children act a lot different than adults. They move quickly, make high pitched noises, act unpredictably, and can grab dog tails/ears - without meaning any harm. Even the best behaved child is not a robot, and can startle a dog. And if you think that humans (primates) act in a way that is hard for a canine to understand, child behaviour is a whole another level of this.

    I'm not saying that this is what happened in this case, that's impossible to say now. But I do know that most dog owners are not very skilled in reading dog body language and stress signals. There are books out there by authors like Turid Rugaas and Stanley Coren, to name just a couple, if you'd like to learn about this (some even come with DVDs).

    Also, although I have two dogs, I wouldn't send my child to a daycare where they interact with someone else's dog. Just too many variables for my comfort level. This is not to say that it can't work well for you, just my personal feeling.

    You say that he was on medication for the SA - did it have any known side effects? I know that some tranquilizing medication are known to lower inhibition (and in this bite inhibition), which could be part of the answer to what happened. But informing you of this would be your vet's responsibility. I hope you find a way to deal with this all - it certainly sounds like you did everything a responsible dog owner could be expected to.

  • davidandkasie
    16 years ago

    i used to have a dog that would get aggressive REAL quick if anyone walked up behind me. any other time he was as gentle as a lamb. anytime someone came over i had to tell them to walk in front of or a few feet to my side, but never behind me. he still lives at my mom's house, when i moved he stayed there. he is a lab mix as well, part lab part Akita, and weighs in at a whopping 140 lbs. i usually only had to tell someone once to watch him.

    maybe he was protecting your daughter. no one will ever know.

    i am truly sorry this has happened to you.

  • User
    16 years ago

    No, I am not Cesar. I have been using many of the same techniques he advises much longer than he---I am 61 and have had dogs much longer than he.

    Facts are facts. Dogs must act according to their inbred instincts. The OP asked why---or was agonizing over----the fact the attack happened. I offered my theory. My experience has indicated the reasons I gave.

    I have a rescued dog---who was so uncontrolable he was dangerous. Using techniques I learned---and some tips espoused by Cesar---that dog is now much more predictable and is safe when properly supervised around humans. That safety is maintained by following certain rules about behavior---by adults or children.

    I know those techniques work, I have never had one of the dogs I own attack anyone---unless their training indicated an attack was permissable(defense or guard dogs). That includes a chihuahua mix.

    Brain tumor was suggested-----I am not a vet so do not suggest reasons for behavior only vets can diagnose.

  • gabro14
    16 years ago

    Handy, you are basically putting blame on the dog owner, when all she wants is compassion and some ideas as to why this happened. Since you would have been able to predict and prevent this from happening (you know, with all your "experience"...and a couple of episodes of Dog Whisperer), then I guess the dog owner in this situation is at fault. And I assume that you know for a FACT that your rescued dog (which we constantly hear about...blah blah blah) would NEVER bite anyone?

  • sammy zone 7 Tulsa
    16 years ago

    How old is the child?
    I am very curious after having seen the dog. The dog is as cute as it can be.
    SAmmy

  • turtlepie
    16 years ago

    Thank you Sammy. Everywhere we went people would stop me and tell me what a beautiful boy he was.

    To answer your question, the boy is 11yrs old (12 in march).

  • User
    16 years ago

    I know for a fact my rescue will bite someone---in the right circumstance. That is why we have rules and supervision.

    The OP asked why the attack happened. I offered my experience and opinion. Owners are at fault when a dog bites---it is their dog. I had another dog that bit four teenagers---all at separate times and in separate years. All incidents were reported to and investigated by the police. The dog---and I as the owner---were found to be blameless in all four incidents----as the kids were all observed to be teasing the dog when bit. One kid got bit while jumping the fence INTO my yard and running across the yard. Another got bit THROUGH the fence. I began keeping the dog inside when unsupervised after the fourth incident---more for the dogs sake than the kids.

    All dogs will bite, in the right situation, it is their primary method of defense and a secondary means of control over other dogs.

    I am convinced by years of working with dogs my experience is true. Dogs must be treated as other dogs treat them---that is the only way they understand. Any other treatment is foreign and is detrimental in the long run. We also had horses for several years---which were treated as horses--not humans or dogs. By golly, we even had a couple of problem horses whose objectionable or dangerous behavior we were able to correct.

    Because we took the responsibility to work with animals with behavior problems and use the training and treatment applicable to the type of animal in order to get the desired good behavior.

    Do I like Cesar? Sure. Smart man. But there are hundreds(maybe thousands) of trainers out there using the same basic formula.

    Oh, and I have seen more than two episodes of the Dog Whisperer----I think 5.

  • Elly_NJ
    16 years ago

    Handymac,

    Your input is not helping the situation. You are posturing. I recommend in posts like this, you do not offer your "help" and you do remain silent.

    To the family involved: This is a rare occurrence, but only has to happen once to disrupt, if not destroy, lives. There are many reasons dogs bite, and many have been offered in this thread. But the sad fact is, you can't know what really happened in this situation, as the dog is gone and can't be tested. Some breeds (like Goldens) are less likely to guard or bite. But each animal is an individual and has its own story.

    I am so sorry for what happened. I worry about the boy, who now will be (justifiably) terrified of dogs. I worry for your daughter, who will always wonder if the next dog she meets can "go off."

  • sammy zone 7 Tulsa
    16 years ago

    I think that this post may help so many people, and the fact that the boy was almost 12 is also meaningful. Had he been 5 or so, he would have been down with the dog. Since he is 11, he must have reached down to the dog for the dog to have gotten his face. (Just guessing here) Isn't it true that fingers look like claws to dogs? In our dog training school we are taught to go up to one another's dogs using the back of our hands or even our fists. We go under the chin, not to the top of the head. After so many years, I had never been taught that most dogs don't want their heads petted (by strangers).

    Frankly I like the content of what so many people here say, but I wish they would be more respectful. When someone tells me that the Forum has spoken, and why don't I listen, I think I am communicating with a child. Truth does not come from the loudest screamer. When someone is so arrogant as to tell me that if I don't listen to him, I should take my dog to the pound, he negates all of the words that he wrote that could have been very informative.

    When we ask for advice, we get it. I am very interested in this forum, but we don't know each other, and to presume that we could be in another's shoes is not helpful.

    To me my dogs are almost human. I know that is a ridiculous thing to say, but it is true. I was shocked when my almost perfect puppy grabbed a bird, and wouldn't let it go. Yuck!! But he is a dog, and it is helpful for us to never forget that dogs are dogs. That is why experts who train Goldens (the only dog I am really familiar with) recommend that they not be left alone with young children. They are dogs and cannot be trusted. Also even though they can be trained perhaps better and faster than any other breed, we cannot trust them off lead - outside.

    It is helpful for us to hear about what has happened to others. We can spread this information, and help so many people.

    Don't we all think that dog information and education is lagging behind the year 2008? We don't have good publicity. We are concerned with backyard breeders and stray dogs, but we really have no type of education for the normal family that would like to have a puppy around. We have so much to learn from each other, but nice is a way to go on the forum if we want to learn from each other. I know that this is just my opinion, but I am accustomed to a forum where we do meet with each other from time to time, and we know each other's names. This forum is pretty anonymous, but we can pretend that we are friends.

    Sammy

  • User
    16 years ago

    I hesitate to pay much attention to someone that cannot(will not) establish a history of expertise, since lack of expertise religates information to simple opinion. That is my posturing.

    The OP asked for an explanation of the attack. I provided an explanation. People can choose to include that information in decision making situations or not.

  • texaswoman
    16 years ago

    The fact that it was a sudden change in behavior would make me think it could have been a medical problem. If the dog had been becoming more and more aggressive over a period of time I would think it was a training, or lack there of, problem.
    I love all of my animals (dogs, cats, and horses) but they should always know their place in the pecking order, for our safety and theirs.

  • sammy zone 7 Tulsa
    16 years ago

    Handymac, you answered the question at the behavior/medication. That was a good answer, and I see no problem with it. But you had to continue so that you could deliberately preach to all of us, and attempt to hurt the original poster.

    You declared that the medication was for behavior and aggression problems, and you accused the OP of neglecting her responsibilities to a dog she dearly loved and her children. That is over the top, and your inference was incorrect. You made a mistake, and that is no big deal. But you had to accuse her of neglect, and that is a huge big deal. Your were wrong.

    Also when you state a fact, why don't you give a source? If everyone knows it, find a reference and give it. If you made an error in what you read from the OP, then perhaps you have made errors in your understanding what you call facts.

    Sammy

  • User
    16 years ago

    Ok, I made no statement about medication or aggression. I quoted the OP. You people read what you want, not what I say.

    I did not attempt to make the OP feel badly to hurt her. I simply stated whatn I have seen as the duty of a pet owner---to properly handle/train/treat the animal.

    Gravity is a fact---show me the proof. People only require 'proof' when it is something with which they disagree. Same people can 'take' conjecture as fact if it pleases them.

  • gabro14
    16 years ago

    Handy, quoting the OP's statement about behavior/medication, followed by the statement "Can anyone else see the problem here?" is basically the same as making a statement about it.

    And you deny making any statement about aggression, then say WE have difficulty reading. Well, you did make a statement about aggression (at least ONE statement). Here, let me remind you what you said: "A young dog having behavior problems---all pointing towards AGGRESSIVE or dominant behavior".

    Anytime someone asks you for a source, you find a way to avoid giving one. I've never seen you provide a source when asked. I guess all of your "experience" trumps any sources you can provide, huh?

    Ever notice that people are rarely in agreement with you when you post? There's a reason for that. Maybe it's time to re-evaluate the way in which you post and the content that you post.

  • sue36
    16 years ago

    In your previous post you wrote:

    "Also, I not only have 1 child, I care for 6 more elementary aged children who come to my house Mon-Fri before and after school."

    Is it possible the dog was just sick of kids? I'm not kidding. Kids behave differently than adults in the way their move, sounds, etc. There are a lot of animals that don't like kids (often hiding). Just speculating.

    How is the boy doing? Honestly, 100 stiches, I'm shocked there is no lawsuit.

  • User
    16 years ago

    You are right. I will cease to atrtempt to help people here.

  • gabro14
    16 years ago

    Yes, I too am curious as to how the little boy is doing. Also, how is your daughter doing?

  • hdladyblu_2007
    16 years ago

    this is so sad;i'm so sorry for your loss and the little boy's injuries.he was such a good looking dog.hugs to you.wish i could help you understand but i have no answers.just wish you my deepest sympathy for your misfortune.