Hardwood - Finished on site vs pre-finished?

16 years ago

We are currently renovating our kitchen and we are completely stumped on which floor to put into the kitchen. We were originally thinking hardwood because it would be easier on the feet & back over tile. A neighbor said he has never had a problem with water with his hardwood floor because he had unfinished hardwood installed and they stained and sealed it in the house. He said it was messy, but that is the only way to prevent water from seeping between the planks. Our other issue is the area in front of the kitchen patio door will get scratched, for this we are considering doing tile or a carpet? I've read pre-finished engineered hardwood floors do a better job with scratches than finished on-site. I really want to have the floor last 10-15 years, so if I buy a 25 year warranty floor, I'm hoping that will make sure the floor looks good for the next 15 years. Any Advice? Comments?

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bigdoglover

16 years ago

Total non-expert here except that so far I have had two prefinished Bruce oak floors in two different kitchens. One was solid naildown plank, the other was engineered gluedown plank. My experience was yes, the floor did get some water drippage damage around the sink. Nothing to actually hurt the installation or even curl the boards, but the finish was affected. Also, the solid naildown weathered much better than the engineered gluedown.

We now have site finished flooring, but not in the kitchen. Sorry! The house came this way. However, seeing site finished for the first time, I can understand why they say it would give a little more protection from water between the cracks. I'm grateful to hear what the two flooring people above have to say about the wear of the finish -- I never thought of that. It's something to consider.

Isn't there something that could be done to prefinished in the kitchen area? Could someone take the pieces that will be around the sink before installing them, and put some waterproof finish on their raw edges? Polyurethane, tung oil, wax, whatever...

In any case, I would have hardwood flooring in my kitchen again in a minute if I had the choice. It is so beautiful and you just need to be mindful of wiping up the little drips.

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Comments (15)

glennsfc
16 years ago
I disagree. Prefinished hardwood flooring, especially the dark colors, are very susceptible for showing fine scratching to the furniture-like finishes that you usually find on these products. Plus, your warranty will not be worth the paper it's printed on. All warranties in the flooring business are very limited documents and the exclusions and conditions will amaze you.

Just make sure you know what you're buying; you do usually get what you pay for. Look for well-established brands.

Site finished hardwood does perform a little better in kitchens. The finishing does help slow down the seepage of topical water between planks, but it doesn't totally prevent it.

Put tile where you want it, although it is my experience that most prefinished will perform well when a walk off mat is placed by the door to catch grit and debris brought inside on soles of shoes. Site finished flooring finished with a quality finishing system will also perform well when walk off mats or rugs are strategically placed and used.
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boxers
16 years ago
site finished flooring finishes have improved but prefinished usually are more abrasive resistant than site finished. Pros and cons are many but if you had a spill on site finished and there was damaged you have to resand the entire floor. with factory finished you just reploace the damaged board or two. FF can be screened and recoated so if you notice 'wear' you can easily recoat it without the need to resand. Thinking site finished will create a solid layer of impervious urethane is simply not true. Either will probably do a good job for you, but I wouldn't want you to base your decision on wrong info.
Finish warrantys deals with walking thru the finish to bare wood. It doesn't mean it will 'look good' for the life of the warranty.
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As a hardwood floor enthusiast, having been in the hardwood floor business all my life, it is site-finished hands down for me. Aside from the aesthetic knocks I have against prefinished floors (seams you can see and feel with your feet, a funny sheen, no choice on sheen, color fading problems, etc.) the main point I stress with my clients is maintenance. You mention small children and a dog, both of which I have to contend with on my own floors. Any hardwood floor you choose will eventually show signs of wear. With the proper finishes on a site finished floor, restoring your floors to new is very feasible. With a factory finished floor, it is virtually impossible. With the current cost of unfinished red and white oak in standard widths of 2 1/4" and 3 1/4" at extremely low prices, we have been finding that site finished floors can actually be less costly than even median factory finished floors. The difference in material price easily offsets the cost of sanding and finishing. Of course, any homeowner making this decision must consider the possible issues of dust, fumes, and time off the floors. It is imperative to find a top-notch floor finisher who works primarily or exclusively in occupied homes. You need a finisher who can keep dust to an absolute minimum (which is possible) and who uses high-end water based urethanes such as Bona, Glitsa or Basic Coatings. Each of these companies makes a commercial grade water based urethane that will be prefect for your traffic needs. They are also very low in VOC's and some are green guard certified. The best reason to use them, though, is that 5, 8, 10 or more years from now when you see a traffic pattern becoming visible, a good floor finisher can use the same finish to "re-coat" just those areas showing wear. It is possible to blend these newly recoated areas into the surrounding areas without moving all your furniture. This is typically very affordable and takes only a few hours to complete and dry. In this way you are able to indefinitely maintain your floors making it possible to avoid ever sanding them back to the wood. Unfortunately, with prefinished floors, once they wear out, all you can do is to sand them back to the wood and do exactly this process. To make matters worse, most of them now come with aluminum oxide finishes which make this refinishing very difficult. I say, why install a floor trying to avoid refinishing when refinishing will eventually be the only way to make them look good again? Get it right from the start, use the best finishes out there, the right finisher and then maintain your floors. You will have floors you love for life.
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I think the misinformation was about screening and recoating a site finished and doing a board replacement. On site finished if you have a problem its much harder to do a single board replacement and have it blend. Most times you would have to resand the entrire floor to make it look good. With factory fiished a single board could be replaced without resanding adjoining areas. Either could be screened and recoated without sanding. Comments about factory finishes scratching are sometimes due to the fact that with multi coat products the almunium oxide is left off the top coat. It tends to look milky and the idea is to make the top coat easy to repair when scratches occur so its often pure urethane with the AO below the top coat.
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Doesn't change my opinion either. With site finish you have a lot more control in the finish color with mixing and still have a chance to match... as someone said if it was done recently you might even have the formula, assuming your goal is to still try and match. My question to the good floor contractor is how they plan on handling the transition. In an ideal set up they would selectively remove some old planks and stagger in some new ones, sand flush, then finish, creating a seamless and undetectable transition. Since you don't have interest in refinishing the other spaces I'm unsure of all the options. If possible it'd be nice to not have a clunky threshold piece in the way.
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As JLC said, you have nicely finished doorways ... the only time you will see both floors is when you have a door open. And with the difference in lighting, you won't notice slight differences. Here's how I match or blend finishes: Bring home some samples of the prefinished you are thinking about and lay them in the hallway, parallel to the existing floors. Stand back 10 or so feet and pick the board or boards that you have the hardest time spotting. That's your match. Or, remove the boards that stand out ... what's left is the matching color. If you carefully pick the ONE board that is just inside the doorway to be as close a match to the older one in the hall it will make the blend almost invisible. Here, in an 1880s adobe ... the door stops where the pale wood is, and I picked new boards with the brownish tones of the old floor (upper part) to make the new flooring (running side to side) less conspicuous. (there was craptastical 1990s carpet and some wierd sill arrangement to deal with ... nothing in the house is square, plumb, or level). By matching size and rustic-ness in the new flooring we got a floor that blends with the old. Cleaning and refinishing the old floor (eventually) will make oit blend better.
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glennsfc
16 years ago
Site finished hardwood is also recoated by a screening technique and/or preparation chemicals and abrasive pads. Once a site finished floor is properly sanded and finished in the first place, it is as good and serviceable as most any prefinished.

A skilled hardwood flooring professional can also make seamless repairs to site finished flooring; I have done that in cases where a homeowner damaged a few boards. The exact same materials have to be used.
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susiethecook
16 years ago
I would always choose site finished floors over a prefinished floor. The hold up VERY well. We live in a house we build 15 years ago. Our site finished floors are still going strong.
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mrpandy
16 years ago
I don't know how true it is, but it was explained to me by my floor guy that site finished (using urethane) floors can't quite meet the level of protection in factory finished (using aluminum oxide) floors. He wasn't trying to push us to one or the other, but just included this in the pros and cons of the two types.
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boxers
16 years ago
flooring decisions are always a series of tradeoffs. Site finished provides a uniform flat surface. Factory finish can achieve quality that site finished can't. How many posts have been posted here re: air bubble, brush marks, etc in site finished. Not everyone wants a flat 'panel' type look. FF allows individual boards to stand out as a design option. Lastly when tested Aluminum oxide provided approx 10 times the abrasion resistance over site finished. I'm not saying it won't scratch but the alum oxide finish is very durable. There is a downside as alum oxide tends to make the finish look a little 'murky'. Its all trade offs.
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gardenmax-2008
16 years ago
We have had two on site finish with select and better, random lengs, kiss bevel (great place for grit to go) oak hardwood. There were dogs, cats, rollerblades, football players, teenagers and the floors in both houses still look great. Now we are building a house in a small town and it looks like we will have to buy engineered unfortunately. What we find in engineered is how short the boards are, no matter what the length is. The floor slook like a quilt and do not resemble a good looking hard wood floor area. Does anyone know an engineered product with lengths longer then 4 or 5'. I have my fingers and toes crossed. Thanks so much. The little town is Point Roberts, Washington, which is landlocked between two borders and Canada before you can get back into the U.S.
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glennsfc
16 years ago
Use Owens Plankfloor engineered unfinished and then have it finished on site. Plankfloor comes in a 5/8" thickness with a 3/16" sawn veneer face...you will not be able to distinguish it from a solid product. It installs just like a solid. The milling is so precise that a simple touch sand is all that needs to be done before applying the finish of choice. NEVER use cheap finish...it wastes your time and money. If you can't find a competent and skilled finisher, then DIY only after becoming familiar with finish offerings and all the instructions that come with the product.

UA makes a similar product, although it is 1/2" total thickness and made in Taiwan.
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gardenmax-2008
16 years ago
I just checked Ownes Plankfloor and I love it. They have lengths of 7' and a variety of widths. glennsfc thanks very, very much. I have been on their website and will now find a dealer and go visit or have a sample sent out. Have you used this product yourself?
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floorguy
16 years ago
Owens is nice.
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gardenmax-2008
16 years ago
We just got a quote about random lengths up to l0' in 4" edge grain white oak engineered, unfinished for $l0.00 per square foot. Ouch! That is a Canadian price. I need to start surfing the net because $l0.00 plus installation would amount to too expensive for this family. We will get that Owens come h--l or highwater though. You guys have convinced me that it is the way to go. Thank you and thank you. If you know any internet sites that are trustworthy and less money I would love to know them.
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gardenmax-2008
16 years ago
floorguy and glennsfc what would you use. We need l000 square feet of hardwood. Our island will be in a dark stained rift quarter sawn oak. The hardwood will go in the kitchen, eating area, living room (great room for those three rooms), den and one bedroom. We would like to use oak on the floor to match the island, but have it stained in a medium brown color.

In the past two hardwood finished on site floors we used glitza water based finish. I don't know if glitza is still allowed because of the ureaformaldyhydes (sp??) but would like a satin finish. Maybe we shouldn't be so close minded about unfinished. Maybe we should buy finished but we have to get longer lengths then are usually offered. In VAncouver, B.C. all we see is 4 to 5' at the longest. Just looks like a quilt.

And for a l000 square feet of mostly open area that could be deadly. My mind is open and I look forward to your opinions. I know you know a lot more then I do.

Can hardly wait to hear your opinions.
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glennsfc
16 years ago
Was this a custom quote? Or, did you a ask for a quote on a readily available offering?
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gardenmax-2008
16 years ago
glennsfc, I phoned the company that we bought our hardwood from for the last two houses we built (over 20 years) and he gave us the quote. I would consider that a custom quote.
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Hardwood - Finished on site vs pre-finished?

bigdoglover

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