Opinions on HVAC estimate system for new home

10 years ago

4500 Sq. ft. new home to be build received this estimate for HVAC in South Jersey.

INSTALLATION OF THREE ZONE HEATING & COOLING
SYSTEM

Installation includes:
1st Floor
(1) Bryant 100,000 BTU 96% Evolution 2 Stage furnace
model 986TA048100V21
(1) Bryant 4 Ton 410A Evaporator coil model CNPVP4821ALA
(1) Bryant 4 Ton 17 Seer R410A Preferred 2 stage Condensing unit
model 127ANA048000
(1) Honeywell 2 stage Digital Thermostat
(1) 4 inch filter rack

2nd Floor
(1) Bryant 80,000 BTU 96% Evolution 2 Stage furnace
model 986TA04880V17
(1) Bryant 3 Ton R410A Evaporator coil model CNPVP3617ALA
(1)Bryant 3 Ton 17 Seer 2 Stage R410A Preferred 2 Stage
condensing unit model 127ANA036000
(1) Honeywell 2 Stage Digital Thermostat
(1) 4 inch filter rack

3rd Floor:
(1) Bryant 80,000 BTU 96% Evolution 2 Stage furnace
model 986TA0488017
(1) Bryant 3 Ton r410A Evaporator coil model CNPHP3617ALA
(1) Bryant 3 Ton 17 Seer 2 Stage R410A Preferred condensing unit
model 127ANA036000
(1) Honeywell 2 Stage Digital Thermostat
(1) 4 inch filter rack

Includes: Ductwork main trunks metal, externally wrapped R-8.0 silver, branch runs flexible insulated duct silver. Refrigeration lines, condensate lines, emergency pan, furnace flue piping, registers & return grilles aluminum.

Comments are appreciated...I have Bryant Evolution system in my current home and I am happy with its performance and durability. I'm located on a barrier island close to saltwater.

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Comments (9)

tigerdunes
10 years ago
I would want to see some load calcs for each zone and size of zone. Any of these zones a finished basement?

260 KBTUs heating
10 tons of cooling

Really.

I might consider using zoning controls to eliminate at least one system.

IMO
NJShore609
Original Author
10 years ago
No zones in a finished basement. 3rd floor is open area high ceilings to roof rafters, under 1st floor is insulated floor and then 5'6" un-insulated crawl space.

any issues with preferred condensing units and evolution furnaces? I had wanted all evolution system but this is how he quoted it.
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Yes Natural Gas Furnace for Heating along with the AC condenser. I have read up a lot on zoning, it seems to me like there are not a lot of installers in the industry that really know how to set them up properly. There also is a lot of negative information on zoning as it relates to the troubles a by-pass can cause to your systems efficiency. That is why I was leaning towards the two unit system, however need to figure out the proper size for each level. I know the best thing to run is a Manual J on the place however as a starting point what is the general rule based on square footage in determining the tonnage and BTU for a heating and cooling system? That along with how does the rising of hot air and the dropping of cool air determine the size you would go with? Any help would be appreciated.
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Jt Some questions please. What is your location? What size home living area? What size furnace and eff are you replacing? What size AC are you replacing? I would like to know the exact mdl number evap coil for each quote. What thermostat is proposed for the Carrier quote? That is a big difference between the 96% eff Carrier furnace and the 80% eff Trane furnace-both 60 K input. That would be about 56 KBTUs output on the Carrier and about 48 KBTUs on the Trane. Not insignificant. I don't care for some shortcuts that homeowners make particularly on reusing linesets and using existing thermostats that shortchange a nice furnace's operational capability. Post back with the info requested. IMO
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Great units, for certain. Is this for one unit or two? Have you considered the possibility of insulating your hot water pipes and putting in ONE large hot water heater? This would reduce your standby loss (depending on your run length of your pipes). How about a tankless hot water heater? They use way less gas and they are so much easier to install now rather than later. If this is a two story home, you want to make absolutely certain of the following: You need either: (1) a zoned system with two different units. (2) one system with automatically controlled zones. (Carrier Infinity is known to be among the best with their zoned system and the price would be slightly less than for two systems--IF you do it now rather than later--drywall labor etc). Don't let anyone tell you that one unit can heat and cool a two story home. It needs to be zoned: either with one unit and thermostatically controlled dampers or two units. Don't take my word for it. Talk to any 2 story homeowner that has one unit for two floors. Too, I would seriously consider adding HVAC to the basement (especially if you ever plan on finishing the basement) Running the ductwork would only be a matter of a thousand bucks or two. Doing it now is a whole lot less expensive than later. Generally, the air conditioning and heating needs of a basement aren't all that significant and you can often use the same size unit depending on the outdoor exposure of your walls and windows/insulation etc. Another thing you may want to consider is having your ducts SEALED with a company that specializes in this. It is not uncommon to have brand new ductwork that LEAKS 20% of your system capacity. It is virtually impossible to get your ducts good and tight without this method. Aeroseal is a proven method which blows little particles into the "holes" and permanently seals them from the inside. Typical cost for this size home: perhaps $500-$750. They print the before and after results for you right then and there. It only takes an hour or two. Cold winters are no problem IF these unit(s) are correctly installed according to the heat load/heat loss of your home. On a twenty thousand dollar job, the HVAC contractor can take an hour or two and run a load for you. Insist on it. Before you go with American Standard/Trane (which are excellent units), check out the Carrier Infinity system with zoning. (You can have up to EIGHT individually controlled zones) Many professionals and homeowners testify that the Infinity system is the best. I should know as I have two of them! Good luck!
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I suggest separate systems for the first and second floor. That is the best way to have even temperatures on each floor. It costs more up front, but you potentially have lower operating costs. You could zone the loft off the second floor system. However if you are going to be working 10 hours days with multiple pieces of equipment generating heat then spend the money on a mini split.
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tigerdunes
10 years ago
I can't believe the sizing is correct.

I would zone the finished basement off the main floor system and use a zoning control.

As far as upstairs system, where will furnace be located?

It is highly suspect to have nice Evolution furnaces controlled by a cheap HW thermostat. Insist on the Evolution controller. That's a big mistake.

IMO
mike_home
10 years ago
I have to agree with Tigerdunes. This is sizing does not make sense especially for new construction.

You need to review the load calculations with the contractor. Find out what design temperatures were used.

Where will the furnaces for the second and third floor be located?

This is a very expensive quote yet the contractor could did not include Evolution controllers. This is a red flag in my opinion. Is this an authorized Bryant dealer?
NJShore609
Original Author
10 years ago
Just to be clear there is no finished basement, the house is built on piers enclosed with breakaway walls for flood protection.

Quoted price is 40,500.00

1st and 2nd floor furnaces will be located on the second floor in an unfinished space. 3rd floor is living space and will be located in attic or same second floor unfinished space.
tigerdunes
10 years ago
Sorry my misunderstanding.

What are living area size of main floor, second floor, and third floor?

Insist on Evolution controller for each system. If not, you will shortchange a nice system and yourself.

IMO
mike_home
10 years ago
You are spending a lot of money and you want the HVAC installation to be done correctly. Builders know very little when it comes to HVAC. It is the item that gets the least amount in the budget and it is usually subbed out to the lowest bidder.

You need to have a real load calculation done. By real I mean using software which complies with the Manual J calculation with all the correct inputs. If the HVAC contractor cannot do this then find someone else. The Byant evolution equipment is one of the best on the market. However it will never work correctly if it is oversized and poorly installed.

I am in the Princeton NJ area. I would love to recommend an HVAC contractor but I don't think he is going to travel to the Jersey shore.
NJShore609
Original Author
10 years ago
Thank you for all the great replies, I really appreciate it.

1st floor bedrooms/baths - 1650 sq ft

2nd floor bedrooms/baths - 1500 sq ft

3rd floor open living space - 1350 sq ft

It's very difficult, I agree. At first i got a quote that said 17 seer/90% efficiency units and duct work to be sized along with the price. I pressed for details and finally got them.
tigerdunes
10 years ago
Great HVAC you are being quoted. Add the Evolution controllers. You will never regret it.

You are being grossly oversized though.

I would zone either the 1st and 2nd floors or even the 2nd and 3rd floors.

I would let the load calculation and what's practical be your guide. It's difficult for me to believe you need 3 independent systems.

Good luck.
IMO

Opinions on HVAC estimate system for new home

Comments (9)

tigerdunes

NJShore609
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Opinions on HVAC estimate system for new home

Comments (9)

tigerdunes

NJShore609Original Author

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tigerdunes

mike_home

NJShore609Original Author

tigerdunes

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NJShore609
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