Interesting....

That's not a typical wood stress crack (helps greatly to see the photos), as real wood furniture stress cracks are usually much straighter than that - and they follow the grain of the wood (again, mostly straight). This leads me to believe this is a piece made of MDF or other wood laminate, and that type of crack is something one usually sees from impact damage during shipping.

And that does look like dried blood!

Since this is brand new, I'd expect/politely demand a new replacement, rather than a patch & repair. Exchange on-site in your home once the new piece arrives.

-Duane Collie

Agreed, this is very odd. What/how/why is really irrelevant, even if you missed it this should never happen so soon (if at all).

The heavy orange peel above the crack leads me to suspect that someone tried to repair it previously. The red may be from a primer or something that was recoated before adequate drying time. You should return the piece.

I agree.....and stop payment and call your credit card company if that's the way you paid.
They need to replace that...not fix it....not replace the door, but you need a whole new piece.
Linda C

Hi,

I have forwarded the pictures and my complaint to customer service at Hendricks Furniture which owns Boyles, Thomasville and a few other companies. I told the lady that we will not accept anything less than full replacement
of the chest.

Unfortunately I cannot stop payment on our check since it was cashed two weeks ago and that is how these furniture companies deliver is COD.

I really hate to think that we received a "second" that was previously repaired, but grateful it split so soon after receiving it so we do have a very legitimate complaint. As much as we hate to admit this, my husband and I are so "anal" when it comes to our belongings, that I KNOW we would have seen that split and the red blotch during delivery.

Let's just hope that Boyles stays true to their reputation, as well as American Drew.

I will keep you posted when we hear back..hopefully sooner than later.

I have a 9 month's long saga of lack of quality control with Thomasville. Fortunatly I was smart enough to not pay until it was delivered....I had to put 1/3 down, which I put on my credit card, and financed the rest through their plan. In all the months of "take it back...that's not right" I had to pay finance charges on the amount I financed...but I figured it was rent on the furniture that had the wrinkles and sagging.
I will repeat something my father told m,e many years ago....never pay for all of something before you have it and use it for a few days....or you don't have anything to be sure they make it right.
I have a friend who was having lots of stuff done, reupholstery, draperies and wall paper. The decorator takled her into paying for it all before she took delivery....after 10 months and the decorator still had her funiture and the windows were bare....she took her to court. Turns out she was using her prepayment to pay for the last order and so on....she went out of business.
I hope Boyles is there for you.
Linda C

As a retailer, I have to advise against stopping payment on a check, if you expect to get any resolution to a problem. When you stop payment on a check, you still have the goods and the retailer has nothing. It creates a hostile relationship when you do that, and at that point the trust is gone so the dealer knows you will most likely never again buy from them. You go from being a valued customer to a problem client.

If you stop payment AND return the goods at the same time, that's a different story. When you return the goods immediately (which is different from calling on the phone and saying 'come and get them, its in the driveway') then that's a viable response to a purchase gone bad.

The horror stories I can tell you about stopped payment checks are incredible. A few months ago one of my cabinetmaker vendors delivered a $ 24,000 group of furniture to a customer (not one of mine, through another store) and after all was in the house, the lady decided the finish on two nightstands was too 'shiny' and stopped payment on the check for the entire order. She had all the money, and all the product. This infuriated the cabinetmaker and he drove 4 hours to get it, loaded it, and took it back to his shop. He refused to discuss the issue or work the finish to this customers wishes (it was an easy fix, too). She still wanted the pieces but now he refused to even talk to her on the phone. In the end, she lost out as the pieces were exactly what she wanted and all it required was a simple sheen adjustment he would have been more than happy to do for her next trip to that area. She over-reacted, and he responded in the only way he could short of filing a civil lawsuit.

A viable business cares about its customers and will take care of issues. Remember before doing anything brash that the consumer does not hold all the cards. Get on the phone and get to the right people at your store, and usually the issue can be solved.

The reason so many stores require prepayment is because this stopped payment issue happens more often than you might think and is almost never done in conjunction with the immediate return of the merchandise in question.

Linda, I don't know of any store that will allow you to use something for a few days before paying for it....not even Nordstrom's is that liberal!

The best way to get things resolved is to be polite and respectful, and your selling dealer should be likewise. Its simply The Golden Rule...nothing more. Stores LOVE repeat business from steady customers and value that relationship, and won't want to damage it by non-attentiveness to a problem. As a customer of the store, you should likewise value that relationship you began with them, especially if you work with a certain salesperson or owner of the store - they'll watch out for you down the road.

-Duane Collie

Duane is correct. Also, in some states stopping payment when you have their merchandise is considered criminal fraud.

I will repeat something my father told m,e many years ago....never pay for all of something before you have it and use it for a few days....or you don't have anything to be sure they make it right.

I can't think of any business that will allow that. And, problems don't often show up in the first few days, but rather in the first few weeks. Your best protection is buying the right product from the right store.

I have a friend who was having lots of stuff done, reupholstery, draperies and wall paper. The decorator takled her into paying for it all before she took delivery....after 10 months and the decorator still had her funiture and the windows were bare....she took her to court. Turns out she was using her prepayment to pay for the last order and so on....she went out of business.

Any purchase that requires you to prepay in full more than $500 is risky.

In our business, for amounts generally under $400 or for for items being delivered right away we generally require prepayment in full to avoid extra paperwork. Also sometimes for extremely discounted items. But for a regular purchase we'll only take payment in full if the customer asks to do so.

I hope Boyles is there for you.

Yes, please post back with the resolution.

Now, about stopping a check.... if you feel the need to stop payment (really its essentially the same for the dealer if you stop a check or credit card payment), well, something is wrong with the store or with the customer.

In our business, when there's a problem, we'll make a deduction from the balance due. That way there's still incentive for us to fix things, and we don't have to worry that the customer will decide to "live with it" and not pay us a cent. Yes, that's happened.

Before things get to the point of stopping payment, call the store first, make sure you talk to the right person, make sure they understand the problem (or have a prompt inspection), and get a plan of resolution (with a timetable). If these steps get you nowhere, then you have a decision to make.

If you stop a check, you need to allow the store to make things right. Not make things perfect, but make things right. Otherwise, the store may take you to court, and probably will if there's enough money involved. If the store acted properly, you'll be forced to pay the balance and may not get the repairs done, and may even have to pay for the store's lawyers.

If you stop a check for something inconsequential, you could have a real headache on you hands, as this could appear to be a form of stealing. For example, holding back a $5000 COD because the $500 nightstand has a minor or questionable blemish in a hard to see area that is easily repaired or even replaced.

Another thing is that if your furniture is physically attached to the home (i.e. custom cabinetry) and you stop payment, the store can file a lien on your home. You can fight the lien only if you have a legitimate complaint.

I am NOT a lawyer and the above is NOT legal advice.

I think I agree with Duane Collie. You should give them a chance.

Just my two cents and Duane may concur,

That looks like a knot in the wood. a Filler may have been added to smooth out the area before painting but that is a wood knot. The red staining is also an indication of it. The staining is caused by the leaching of the sap from the knot.

They typically split in the dryer winter months. But they will not split past the knot. I will bet it wasn't there when it was delivered as they sometimes show up after the fact.

Wood being a natural product is subject to these type of issues. A replacement may do the same thing in another area. A repair may be a better solution but that is up to you.

Good Luck

AHA! Mystery solved. That cracked looked like end-grain splitting, so a knot makes perfect sense. We all learned something new today.

FWIW, MDF and particleboard are more prone to crush type damages, because these products tend to compress rather than split. In fact, these are the preferred substrate for many types of contemporary laqcuer furniture because they are unlikely to split.

American Drew used to be considered a better end line. I'm surprised they let a knotted piece of wood go through QC. Then again, I guess I'm not surprised.

Duane - hoping you can state your opinion on what I should do here.

1) Do you think Mactruck is correct and that the crack is a wood knot?

2) the response I received today is that "they need to pick up the chest for corrections. This is a very minor repair."

They provided no additional information as to what they think it is or how it will actually be repaired. Should I ask for further information?

3) how will they correct this? Would they even consider cutting the know out and replacing it or will they just use filler, which eventually will also dry out over "x-number" of years.

3) will a knot continue to split under dry winter conditions even after it is corrected? I live in lower NY, where our winters are EXTREMELY dry. We run a humidifier day and night in our house from November-March.

4) Should I inquire as to what my recourse is if it should split again???

5) should I demand that it be replaced instead of "corrected"?

Thank you!!

This very well could be a crack across the knot. What is the piece made of? Pine? If it is a crack across a knot, it can't be 'repaired' per se, but only filled with putty, primed and repainted. It may or may not open up again over time, but if it does you can pretty much be sure that you're on your own if it does.

If that were my piece, I'd ask for a new replacement, assuming you purchased new and not a scratch n' dent or otherwise floor discounted model. New is New.

Duane

2) If this is the top piece of the chest that part probably can be replaced. I'm not a carpenter but I don't think knots are dimensionally stable. Without knowing more details I'd be looking for replacement. I'd ask for more information.

3a) I doubt they'd cut out the defective area. Filler should hold indefinitely.

3b) Assuming its a knot, I believe it could detach from the wood plank and protrude out.

4) Absolutely, and get it in writing before agreeing to any repairs, and make sure you're satisfied with what it says before agreeing to any repairs.

5) Well, that's what we do for our customers in a situation like this...

Its possible a replacement can have these issues also, but I can't imagine its normal for poor wood to be used front and center like this. But please keep us posted.

The description from American Drew is as follows:

Crafted from Poplar Solids, Maple, Select Hardwood and Ash Veneers

The picture attached is not of our chest, but from AD's site. If you were to face the chest, looking at the bottom right nickle knob, if you were to draw a straight line to the right and then draw a straight line up from the bun foot, where the lines meet is where the crack is.

I will inquire for more information from customer service as to how they plan on repairing it and will they warranty it for life(lol). I will tell her not to bother having shipping/receiving call me until I agree on anything.

And no...this set was not a floor model or any type of special sale. New it is!!(or should have been)

With Boyles great reputation on this site, I hope I am not the only one who will have to advise against using them!!

{{gwi:1537127}}

Don't expect them to warrant a repair beyond the manufacturer's warranty period. Very attractive piece BTW.

I had my best cabinetmaker look at the photos you sent. He's 84 years old and knows wood better than anyone I've ever met. He believes its either a crack across a knot, or else shipping damage. Personally, I suspect shipping damage with a jiffy repair that didn't take (hence the red primer).

Either way, I'd not accept a repair on the face of the piece. You paid for new, you should have new. What Boyles should do is order you a new piece, and you keep the old until it arrives. They bring in the new, you give them the old, and it becomes their problem to deal with. Let them repair it and put it in their clearance section.

Careful on warranties! That covers manufacturer defects, not shipping damages. I am pretty confident it wouldn't have left the makers dock with a repair like that, it was probably done in transit to Boyles and repaired by their in-house help. That would be my guess.

-Duane

Thanks Duane! You are so valuable to this forum. I did send Boyles another email saying I would not accept a repair and expect full replacement. I did explain that a "friend" who is very knowledable in the furniture field thought it was a knot..etc.

I will let you know what happens. Thanks so much!!

This is the response I received last night.

"We cannot give you an accurate evaluation of what caused the issue or how it can be repaired until it is returned. We will make this as quick a turnaround as possible and it will also be to 100% before being shipped back out. I do apologize for the inconvenience. Thanks!"

I have since replied and told them I cannot believe that a company like Boyles who sells thousands of pieces of furniture every month cannot determine the issue at hand without picking up the chest and bringing it all the way to NC. I told her that I am still not agreeing to this since they could obviously tell me they are replacing the unit and send me the same exact one, only repaired (again). (but I did not say "again")

Also, I did not write this, but should have, that in her first response, she told me that it is a very minor repair and now she is telling me they cannot determine what it is without seeing it.

I also have never heard of a furniture company from NC that does not have in-home site inspectors scattered throughout the US that go and evaluate a problem.

I have asked to speak with her supervisor now.

Do you think I would get anywhere if I called American Drew direct?

I know I have been advised against this, but if it comes down to it, I will have to dispute my intital credit card deposit.

So frustrating!!

There are valid reasons for them to want it back. First, we all know this is a legitimate complaint but the rep you're communicating with may not be allowed to make that judgment. Since they have so many customers they need to have procedures in place to make sure every claim is handled in a consistent manner. Second, they may have to show it to an Am. Drew rep.

Much wood furniture has traditionally been subject to repair not replacement where repair is possible. Am. Drew may have such a policy.

If they insist on repair, consider telling them that before agreeing to anything to provide you, in writing, a guarantee or warranty for the repair that is at least as long as the manufacturers warranty.

If they refuse to provide you this, you have a good case for a BBB report and credit card chargeback.

If they comply, you have a decision to make.

I spent a little time on google looking for warranty information, and can't find any. So, this probably has a one year warranty.

I think you asked if you should contact American Drew directly. IMO I'd do this if I was at an absolute deadlock with the dealer. Its hard to get anywhere otherwise.

If you do, stay focused in the coversation. Get clarification on the warranty if necessary. Ask if they will honor this repair under their warranty. Might be worthwhile to find out if the warranty is longer than a year. You should have some warranty information on the hang tags that came with your set. What is the warranty?

I am NOT a lawyer and the above is NOT legal advice.

Every store has its policy and you will have to pretty much abide by it, or negotiate an exception. If you're not getting a satisfactory reply, then move on up the management chain at Boyles and explain to them that the only thing that will make you a satisfied customer *AND* a repeat customer, is a new piece, not a repair. End of discussion.

American Drew is not really interested in getting involved in this and is going to put it on the dealer (Boyles) and
rightfully so, it may not be a manufacturing issue. Part of what a dealer does is handle these issues so the manufacturer doesn't have to, and that's part of what the dealer is paid to do.

Be patient, let the Boyles truck come and get the piece, and keep the constant theme that a repair is not acceptable.

I'd advise against a charge-back, you still have the piece and in truth its jumping the gun. Give them a chance to work it to your satisfaction. Once you attempt a chargeback proceeding (which may not work to your favor as you have possession of the item), Boyles will most likely entrench and not budge off their store policy.

This is a daily occurrence for a large operation such as Boyles, they're used to dealing with issues such as this and it has to take some time to work through their system.

Duane Collie

Hi,

My sister happened to have a furniture repair person at her house yesterday and also sometime last week b/c when they moved over the summer, some of the furniture was damaged by the moving company. I asked my sister to show him the pictures and ask him what he thought as well. He actually worked in NC for many years for the NC furniture stores doing exactly what I am having an issue with...repairing furniture before it is shipped to the customer. He eventually left b/c he did not like the deceitfulness that goes on in NC to the end-consumer and says it is actually a fairly common practice unknowingly to the consumer. In my case, it just happen to have split again too early for their liking.

In conclusion, as most have said here already...
He said it is not a crack from a wood knot. They rarely use pine in manufacturing furniture these days and I agree since American Drew states they "xxx" woods and pine is not listed.

What he did say is that it is called a climatic crack and that the wood that American Drew used to make the piece was not dried out (enough). He did say that the red stain is definitely a primer and the piece was already repaired once before.

He told my sister that the wood may not dry out for another 2-3 years and that the problem can and most likely will occur again if I settle for the repair. He said do not settle for a repair, you need full replacement.

Regardless if it is due to wet wood or shipping damage from AD to Boyles, it has been repaired already. I probably can get a thousand testimonies to that from people in the field like you. I did NOT pay for a repaired piece of furniture!! I would not be so defiant if it was there upon delivery and we did not notice it, but it was not there upon delivery or when it went through Boyles QA Dept.

To Duane and Mogator88 - knowing yet another confirmation that this piece has already been repaired once, I am now 100% confident that if I was to send the chest back without a full replacement being dropped off at my house at the time of pickup, I would get the same exact piece back AGAIN. They have already done it once.

Now would you call AD and tell them what is going on since it was obviously repaired before. If Boyles repaired it b/c they did not feel like putting in a claim and AD knows nothing about this it is AD's reputation on the line.
Or perhaps, it was a Boyle's customer that declined delivery/acceptance b/c it was damaged when it got to their house. Yes hundreds of scenarios, but one common conclusion.

Again, how can Duane and the furniture repair man at my sister's house look at the picture and say it has been repaired once before, yet Boyles cannot make that determination without the actual piece in their possession. Fishy to me and you know I will be getting the same piece back, claiming by them it is a full replacement.

I guess we just cannot determine if it is wet wood or just shipping damage, but I am not taking the chance. I will not dispute the charge. I agree it will probably agitate them so they will not accomodate me, but I will keep on fighting for a full replacement and will not settle for anything less after all of these confirmations of prior damage that I am receiving.

Once this may-hem is done, my review of Boyles in this forum and to others by word-of-mouth will not be very favorable.

Thanks again for your support and solid expertise.

OK, time to chime in. First, my qualifications: I am a professional furniture maker. I have seen more pieces of wood than you can imagine. Here are my thoughts:

1. It's a knot. If it was shipping damage, you'd see a disturbance in the painted layer and/or an indented area where the piece had been hit. The appearance of the crack is completely consistent with that of a knot.

2. All cabinet woods have knots. The boards are sorted in the mill according to the number of knots per board. It's a complicated system (google "lumber grading" for an overview) but even the highest grades of lumber can contain knots.

3. Knots come in varieties. When making a piece, we distinguish between "tight" and "loose". Tight knots are an integral part of the board they are in and will not fall out, although they may sometimes display cracking as seen in your dresser. Many tight knots have no cracks in them, but that doesn't mean that one won't appear under very low humidity conditions. Knots which are tight but have cracking are often filled. Loose knots are actually falling out of the board, or contain large decayed areas that make them unsuitable for fabrication.

4. Knots in some species of woods (especially softwoods) bleed sap and can discolor finish coats. That is what is happening here. The usual fix is to coat the knot with shellac prior to topcoating.

5. Silver lining: it's proof that your piece was actually made of solid wood.

6. Point to ponder: We buy the highest, most knot free grades of lumber to make our pieces. Then we cut around the knots and defects in the lumber to yield perfectly clear lumber for manufacturing. That means that we discard 50 PERCENT of the lumber we use. A large part of a magnificent tree ends up in the dumpster. If you have any concern over the efficient use of forests, you might want to rethink your attitude towards knots. (And veneers. And plywoods. And MDF. But that's another rant) It makes me think of history books I read about our pioneer ancestors - the ones who used to shoot a buffalo, cut out the tongue and the skin, and leave the rest to rot. We use trees the same way. Here you have a case of a manufacturer trying to use wood with knots. They undoubtedly did it to save money (wood with more knots is cheaper) but since the finish is painted, why not? The crack has no effect on the structural integrity of the piece. I would recommend that you let them repair it, and then take satisfaction that you did the ecologically correct thing.

Good luck with it,

Paul Downs

comkow,

How are things coming with this issue with Boyles, we are in a similar situation with them and I was wondering if you could give any advice.

I can say from personal experience that Boyles has excellent customer service and has an interest is ensuring you are satisfied. Give them a chance to correct the situation.