It was fun reading through these oldies - but goodies. I can now make a fairly decent loaf of sourdough bread - but it wasn't easy - lots of trial and error. Thanks to Ken and all the folks here, my bread finally gets my family's "thumbs-up" - although it took some doing. I would add one bit of information though. I have a bread book that I recommend to beginners. It is "The Cornell Bread Book" by Clive M. McCay and Jeanette B. McCay. I happened to see it advertised - while surfing the net, and found several copies on - I think - Amazon or? - but very inexpensive. It has lots of recipe for all kinds of different breads, rolls, using whole wheat, rye and other flours. It was very helpful for me. It does advise making sourdough cultures each time you bake, which I do not do, preferring to have my culture made up and stored in the fridge. As Ken mentioned, it is made ahead of time. I remove 1-1/2 cups for each baking, feed it until it starts to activate. then proceed with the recipe. The remaining starter - kept in a quart jar, then needs to be replenished with water and flour to build back the starter for the next batch. While in the fridge it may develop a dark watery upper layer (hooch - or is it hootch?). This is just stirred a bit before the next use before adding more flour at next baking session. It was a lot of fun - and I try to keep a loaf on hand now. It is great - especially with spaghetti. I like to slice rather thick, sprinkle Roman cheese on top and pop in the toaster oven till browned. Great with soups too. Just my 2 c's. I think - for beginners, they would like "The Cornell Bread Book" - my MIL gave me my copy - it was revised in 1973. You might find one in the library also. Bejay

"...maybe I should start again." Yes, you should. :-) As Ken explains, there is another way of forming bagels. Both methods are used. I find it a little tricky to get bagels even close to symmetrical (they don't need to be perfect) and have more success with the method where you form a ball and poke a thumb through the middle, then push and pull it into shape. Experiment and see which one you prefer. If you like to make your own dough that's fine, just don't let the extra work keep you from making bagels. The ready made pizza dough is not bad. Your freshly baked bagels made from it will be much better than store bought. They will be WAY better than those dinner rolls posing as bagels. Jim

Debbie, it's in the 5th post down. AnnT says she used the Tarte au Sucre cake recipe for the dough and the cream cheese filling from the second recipe for the filling. AnnT is a marvelous cook and accomplished baker, I've never gone wrong with one of her recipes and I've been posting on the Cooking Forum for about 20 years along with her. Annie

FOAS, if people are comfortable with take out food, I don't see why they wouldn't be even more comfortable with your homemade stuff, at least they KNOW who is handling it! Colleen, congratulations on your continued employment! See what a few good cookies can do? The power of sugar and butter, LOL. Jack, I've been known to put petrified brown sugar in the microwave. It'll harden right back up, but stays soft enough to make quick batch of candy or cookies. Toffee sounds good, yum. Ricky, I'm sure your cookie recipients are going to be very happy with those, and they look very festive! Carol, I know what you mean about your Mom, mine is 85 and very stubborn and has "slight" dementia, which mostly means that even when she's clearly wrong, she's going to dig her heels in. (sigh) I made her peanut butter fudge, though, her favorite. At least it used to be her favorite yesterday, I don't know if it still is today, she's very.....changeable. sleevendog, it's pretty obvious I don't make a lot of bagels, or I'd know how to keep those holes in the middle! More practice, maybe? Your crackers look much better than anything available commercially, so nice and crisp. Chloe, not all that impressive. They are not difficult, just time consuming, and it gave me the opportunity to experiment a bit. One recipe called for an overnight starter, one wanted a poolish then an overnight rise and one wanted the bagels formed and then refrigerated overnight. Good thing it's cold here, the garage became my "second refrigerator" for all those bowls and sheet pans, LOL. Annie