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wide plank flooring - cupping question

16 years ago

(cross posted from the Building a Home forum....)

We are in the SF Bay Area, where humidity is typically in the 60-85% range.

I've been seriously considering ordering Carlisle Wide Plank Flooring's walnut flooring (4-12" widths), but got concerned when our potential contractor commented that such planks could be subject to cupping. I'm not exactly sure what this is, but it sounds like the edges pulling up.

Has anyone who lives in a similar climate successfully installed and lived with wide plank floors (i.e. not exactly a new installation, which may not yet have shown any cupping)? Or are the wider planks really better suited for a drier location?

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Comments (2)

glennsfc
16 years ago
Wide board floors can 'cup' and sometimes even 'crown' when the temperature and humidity conditions change, which in temperate regions can be often. Slight cupping or crowning must be accepted as normal experience with this type of flooring.

However, this kind of movement can be prevented somewhat by acclimating wood to the conditions it will 'live' in and then maintaining those conditions with climate control within the structure. Proper vapor proofing of the substrate the product is installed over also helps keep wide board flooring from undergoing severe changes in moisture content.

Wood will take up moisture from above and from below. Some installers will seal properly acclimated wide width flooring on all edges prior to installing to try and prevent moisture migration into the wood. Wood is hygroscopic and will grow and shrink some when it takes up or releases moisture.

Wide width flooring can also 'gap' in regions where winter heating of a structure is common.

Your contractor is wise to inform you of what can potentially happen with wide plank flooring.

Plank flooring manufacturers have a wealth of information available to help the building owner and the contractor achieve a stable and serviceable wide plank floor.

Good luck.
forgotten
16 years ago
"Or are the wider planks really better suited for a drier location? "

Even drier locations can be problematic. You'd be safer with a wide plank that has more vertical grain. Vertical expands vertically rather than horizontal. Pricey, but gorgeous and Carlisle is a top notch source, but I'm not sure they offer it in Walnut.
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I'm not an installer or wood professional. (had to get that out of the way first) Here's the deal - wood dries out during the winter and shrinks a bit when you have central heat on. (And I think gas heat tends to dry the air even more than electric heat.) Come summer and those warm humid months, even with the a/c on, your wood floors will regain moisture and swell. So you've been through 6 months now probably with heat on in your house. I would expect to see some gaps - not huge but it might just be enough to cause that movement you hear. It's not cupping but just the natural tendency for wood to gain/lose moisture during the cooling/heating season cycles. I've also heard that alot depends too on when you had your wood floors installed. If they are installed at the height of summer when the humidity is at it's highest, there is a bigger chance of having shrinkage and gapping come the winter months. I live in the south where alot of the older homes have heart pine flooring that is 100+ yrs old and yes it's definitly looser-feeling during these late winter/early spring months when you walk on it. I suppose you could face nail these planks but I would first call your installer back if he is reputable, and he will know what to do, if anything is needed. And from here I'll turn it over to the flooring experts on this board.
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Rift and quartered flooring is going to be more stable because of the movement in cell structure. Vapor barrier underneath the flooring is something that is a minimal investment for an invaluable benefit. You might be fine without the vapor barrier 90% of the time, however, if you were to have a warranty claim this is a big red flag for any flooring inspector. The vapor barrier does not completely block moisture from coming through, rather it allows moisture to pass through at a safe level for your hardwood flooring. A good example is if the basement floods and you have the vapor barrier installed underneath your flooring on the main level, it might save your hardwood from cupping. Having finish on all sides of a plank is useful for slowing down the moisture changes in the wood allowing it to withstand small fluctuations in humidity. Flooring with grooves on the bottom side allow for the planks to get more surface area which is the most important for glue down installation. After analyzing your particular situation, I feel like with a 6" plank it is best to opt for an engineered product with a decent wear layer (3 mm or more). If you can get quarter sawn that would be the best, but this will be a more costly option and limit your choices because not all manufactures produce their floors in quarter sawn. The main thing to monitor is moisture, try and keep things between 35-55% RH and you should be safe.
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Google searching images will bring up some decent pictures: https://www.google.com/search?q=wood+floor+decorative+face+nail&biw=1280&bih=932&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwit4czu9uLRAhWLqlQKHXWVDrEQ_AUIBygC It's odd that Pine would cup with an oil finish so I would recommend a couple things before taking any drastic steps. Test the moisture in the top of the Pine, the bottom of the Pine and in the subfloor. If there's a huge discrepancy, determine whether steps can be taken to alleviate it. If there's a small discrepancy, consider waiting through a full year of seasonal changes to see if the issue works itself out. Consider that drilling holes near the ends of boards and installing nails or screws and plugs, may have negative consequences. I'd be concerned about splitting. Will the cupping be pulled down with fasteners? If you drill and bore for a plug, the portion of Pine pulled down by a screw will be rather thin. Would it pull down the thin portion of board, or go straight through it? Also, consider geometry in your equation. Draw an exaggerated diagram of what you're proposing, imagining a board that's very cupped. When a hole is drilled through the board and into the subfloor, do you drill perpendicular to the surface of the board or to the subfloor? Regardless of which you choose, as the fastener is installed, the angle will change and the holes will become misaligned, potentially sabotaging your intent.
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