Oakley, pick your battles wisely. Things can get ugly. I've seen it with my cousins. IMO, funeral flowers are not worth it. They're only going to wilt and die.

Have to admit I've never seen an actual lowering of the casket. When my dad died we gathered at the cemetery chapel, because it was raining that day. When my mom died it was bitterly cold, so again we gathered in the chapel. Some of the flowers from the casket spray were shared with others at the chapel. The rest and a couple arrangements were left to be placed graveside. We took the remaining arrangements to the nursing home where my mom had lived the last four months of her life.

Oh, I'm not going to say anything, I was just wondering. If you knew my SIL, you'd question it too. lol.

There were a lot of other flowers there, but I just thought that technically because the casket spray is the "last gift" given from the family to the loved one, it goes in the ground, while the other flowers can be set at the grave site or taken home.

My late brother's wife and kids sent a beautiful plant and I said, "I'm taking this home" right off the bat. Everyone understood. Well, it did say, "Attention: Oakley and Mr. Oakley." lol

I was just curious though.

I've always seen the flowers from the viewing/funeral home (including the casket spray) left on top of the grave after the casket is buried, or donated to a hospital or nursing home.

Normally the casket spray is laid across the plot (after the family has left and the dirt has been spread, etc.) From my mom's service we donated all other fresh flowers to an organization that makes up smaller bouquets and takes to hospice/nursing home patients, etc.

People can act strangly during a stressful time. If this woman is your best friend, I would try to give her the benefit of the doubt. It is sad that the family cannot divide things up without hard feelings.

tina

It is sad that the family cannot divide things up without hard feelings.

It is! My mom made a point of discussing those things with my siblings and I. We assured her we would never bicker over anything and we didn't. I told her the only thing I wanted was her pots and pans. Ended up getting a few more things, but all with the approval of my brother and sister. In my cousins' family the relationship between the three of them was ruined because of greed.

I have never seen the flower arrangements buried, but rather placed on the grave or beside the vaults in a wall. I think that the flowers are for the benefit of the mourners, not the deceased, and it makes a much more comforting sight to have them placed on the barren soil of the gravesite.

It is a shame that people get wacky after someone dies, particularly about arrangements and dividing property. Watched a little of that with my dear MIL's death. Given the non-relationship I have with my only sibling, I don't anticipate a cordial experience in that regard when my mom dies. Sigh. So I have already decided that unless she makes provisions for things legally, my brother can just have it all (and all is substantial). I don't have any interest in the fight.

I have never seen flowers buried with a casket. I have seen them left and I have seen them taken home. It would not be a worry for me.

As far as the estate goes, I will just say that my husband had an immense amount of class when my mother died and we began to divide the estate. He kept his mouth closed. It was my family and none of the in-laws said a thing or became involved in the process. My two sisters and I worked it out. As time went on (large estate requiring time to liquidate/transfer assets), however, tensions grew and there were lots of issues with my younger sister. DH never involved himself in the pettiness. He never told me that I should or shouldn't do or say something. He listened to me, but he never became an instigator of negativity. As I said, a very classy guy.

We've done that too Natal - and so glad for it. My grandmother named certain items in her will and other items, she asked who wants what and has marked things (underneath). Besides that - she gave us many of her things already. Still when the time comes there is a houseful!! Although it broke my heart, my mom (as much as she could) went through things and asked/told us what she wanted us to have. My dad has given us many more items and has asked about items we want when he is gone. Thankfully my brother, sister and I get along and like your family refuse to bicker over belongings.

tina

Cyn, we did the opposite of you. When my father died I was in deep grief. His Will stated "share and share alike" for my brother and myself. I was too grief striken to even give a flip at the time, but I am SO thankful my dh stepped in on my behalf and requested certain items go to me. It was done peacefully between him and my brother. :)

Looking back I am very grateful for the things my husband "acquired" for me to remember my father by. Now I treasure those items immensely. It all worked out, no fighting with between my brother and myself. I get a big smile when I look at my father's antiques. Of course my DB got his equal share too. Thanks to my husband who kept a level head about him.

I did the same for my DH this week. He's the Executor of the Will, and not only that his head was in planning the funeral & also deeply grieving for his mom.

I had no choice but to have his back while his SIL was sneaking things out of the house. Things not only of value, but sentimental things too. Had I not stepped up and privately told him what was going on, he would basically get just the clothes. lol

We also own the house, so her personal belongings and car (which we bought for her) needs to go into Probate. But the personal items SIL took was between my dh and his brother. NOT her and not me. Even my MIL's brothers picked up on her actions & stepped in to tell my dh to take charge and to make her stop. That's how bad it got.

So now my dh has his rightful share which will give him wonderful memories, and also things to pass onto our children and their children. Same for his brother. The wives were nowhere in sight when they discussed it today. As it should be.

People who are in deep mourning need someone to watch their back. It's unfortunate but it needs to be done.

Unfortunately I see my SIL in a whole different light. The greed was just awful. But I'll never mention it to her although I'm sure her dh will because he was totally clueless. :) Her behavior was downright embarrassing and extremely sad at the same time.

Luckily, I didn't need my DH to watch my back.

I think people deep in the throes of grief behave in ways that may surprise even them. Your SIL (and it sounds like you liked her before now) may have been trying to hold on to her mom via her "things" - a way to deny or diminish the truth of her death, especially given the surprise and suddenness of the circumstances. I hope you and your husband can find it in your hearts to give her the benefit of the doubt..and can eventually forgive her.

When my MIL died unexpectedly at 46, my husband and I were only 25 years old. Olychick, you are so right when you say how people behave in the throes of grief. My FIL was so grief-stricken, he had her best friend invite all of her friends to come over, while he was away from the house, and go through her things and take what they wanted. I was the only daughter-in-law at the time, and I remember my husband and I sitting in the living room, while hordes of women went through her things, including her jewelry box, lingerie, closets. It was the most unbelievable thing we had ever witnessed. I felt like my MIL had been violated, yet we were too young or naive to disagree with his dad's wishes. In hindsight, I wish someone with authority and nerve could have been present to persuade my FIL to wait a little while before making such decisions.

Trying to understand this- the niece that made the spray is the one that took it with her? Who paid for the flowers? Can I ask what kind of flowers were in it?

I ask because I wonder if she has other plans for the flowers. My mother in law took most of the flowers home with her when she lost her DH- one of her friends used the flowers to make rosary beads out of them; one was given to each child.

I've also never seen the flowers buried but always on top; then they are removed in a few days & thrown away; which I feel is a shame. With my dad; he was cremated; so no use for flowers. We actually asked for no flowers at the viewing for this reason & asked that donations be made to his favorite charity- which was his choice before he passed. I spent major money on flowers for his casket. I wanted to do the large one but his wife ended up paying for it. I ended up doing a garland with roses around the open part of the casket; that symbolized a last hug. My kids had a heart "pillow" made of roses. I ended up taking what I paid for home; I was going to have something made behind glass but have not gotten around it to yet.

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As far as people sneaking things out- that sucks. It's a shame that you can't trust people. I did not get much from my dad & lost my personal belongings. There were things I would have liked to have- I also would have paid for them but his daughters didn't want me to have anything; they would rather throw his stuff on the curb then let me have anything.

My suggestion is to change the locks on the house if you have to until your hub & his brother can deal with it. His wife really needs to bring back what she took.

I agree with roselvr. She (SIL) needs to bring back what she took. Your DH needs to tell her (or his brother) that he is taking over the process.

Roselvr, My SIL's daughter (neice) made the casket spray.

There were a lot of flower arrangements and plants sent in by friends and family.

DH ordered two floral arrangements to flank each side of the casket in the church, which came with the funeral package.

Before the funeral, us women went into the church to look at all the flowers. The Funeral Director pointed out a beautiful houseplant arrangement sent by my late brother's wife and children.

The card had "attention" to me and my dh. Kim, my other SIL, my brother's wife, told me she deliberately put "attention" on it so no one but me could take it home. lol

When I saw the arrangement from Kim, my heart skipped a beat because of the recent death of my brother, and I immediately said outloud to everyone, "I'm taking these home, they're from my brother."

So I guess that gave my SIL (husband's brother's wife) an excuse to take ALL the flowers home with the exception of the two floral arrangements which came with the package. She was "kind" enough to leave them at the gravesite. ;)

Not once did she offer my dh, my MIL's brothers, a floral arrangement to take home. Oh no, they ALL went to my SIL and her two daughters!

Even my DIL noticed it before I mentioned it to her, and she just couldn't believe it. My SIL basically stole those flowers for herself. ALL of them except the 2 I mentioned above.

Now had she offered the grieving sons and brothers one of the floral arrangements to take home (well, my BIL gets all the flowers too, but he wasn't in on it) and they said "no", then I'd have no problem except I would have wanted one of the floral arrangements for my dh and OUR children. But no, they go to her and HER children. Totally tacky. She thought of no one but herself and her girls.

My dh and I were joking this morning saying we ought to write a book at not what to do immediately after a death.

Now you have to remember, this is the same woman who sat in the LR with our deceased MIL on the bathroom floor, telling everyone what SHE wanted to take home.

I guess also since my neice (SIL's daughter) made the casket spray, my SIL felt entitled to take it home with HER instead of laying it on the mound of dirt as our final gift to my MIL.

The day of my Father's funeral I realized we had no flowers for the casket, so I stopped at a florist shop and just that morning she'd made up a beautiful spray that included 3 red roses and 8 pink roses. She told me she had had no orders but just was inclined to make it. She even cried with me when I pointed out that my father had 3 children and 8 grandchildren.

We were not present when his casket was lowered, but after the graveside service, mom took the spray home and we put it on the mantel. When we all went home a couple days later, mom gave each of us our red rose and the pink roses that corresponded to our children. The spray was so beautiful, that mom then replicated it with silk flowers and mixed in the now dried florals (baby's breath, greens, etc) and kept it for years.

I have the dried roses tied with a bit of the ribbon and the funeral card in my curio cabinet.

As to SIL...I have no advice, just go with what is in your heart. When my FIL died unexpectedly, DH and his brother and I went to the house to try to make some sense of it (he was a hoarder). His DD lived with him and we needed to make it habitable for her and her baby, plus since it was a rental, we needed to get it presentable for the landlord.

Long story short, DH and his brother took only a few items, things their dad had made, and I brought home a wood burl to make a monument to him. We had him cremated, and we brought his ashes home to our house. We tried to get SIL and BIL on board as to what to do with his ashes, but neither one would commit to anything and now, 18 months later, SIL has cut off all contact to us and BIL is indifferent to their fathers disposition. We've never had a memorial service, because neither of the sibs will do anything, so DH and I had a private service of our own, and we add to his monument with rocks and feathers that we find. And to this day we've not spoken with SIL...she's cut us off, we think due to grief, but she was very bitter and cold. It hurts us that we're divided now, and we want to reconcile, but I don't think it's going to happen.

I am appalled at the behavior of your DH's family members, trying to take possession of your MIL's belongings before she was properly buried, let alone the fact that her wishes as stated in her Will have not yet been revealed.

As for the casket and other flowers from her funeral. I am not sure if it is regional, but I have never seen the casket spray or any other funeral flowers buried with the decedent. The casket spray is always placed on the fresh soil that covers the casket once it is buried. Also, have never heard of the taking of any funeral flowers by anyone. Regardless of by whom or to whose attention they are sent, all funeral flowers travel to the cemetary in a "flower" car and are placed on the grave at the time of the burial. Flowers meant for family members are sent to their individual homes if they are intended for keeping.

Lastly, I would not interfere with DH and his family should any type of dispute occur with regard to the distribution of his deceased family member's belongings. DH is fully capable of handling things on his own. He just would not want that.

Flowers meant for family members are sent to their individual homes if they are intended for keeping. - Here too Work. Potted plants, baskets, etc. are brought to the home (by the funeral home employees). To be honest, I really did not want any of these. Not a happy reminder. We also listed a favorite cause of my mom's to be supported rather than flowers, but of course you will always have some flowers. And the children, spouse, etc. will usually send flowers.

Cyn427 - I like your way of thinking!

Wodka!! So good to *see* you!

tina

Potted plants, baskets, etc. are brought to the home (by the funeral home employees).

I'm guessing the practice varies across the country. When my dad passed in '88 the funeral home employees placed the plants/arrangements meant for our family in one of our vehicles that we left at the funeral home while we proceeded to the cemetery with the remaining flowers. It was the same when my mom died two years ago.

I brought one of my dad's plants home with me and eventually planted it outdoors. Up until a few years ago when we did the addition I would still find pieces of it returning every spring. Always brought a smile to my face and a chance to "talk" to my dad.

Work, I'm not getting in the middle of this, but I am telling my dh the things I know, plus he witnessed her "trying" to take things out of the house. He and his brother sat and talked about everything, including what SIL did because his brother had NO idea and was none to pleased.

My SIL told me the night they found her body, that when she and her dh were on their way home, he "chewed her butt out" for wanting to take things. Apparently everyone witnessed (my husband, my son, and her dh) SIL making comments on things SHE wanted while my MIL was dead in the other bedroom.

I'm still sickened that instead of offering the plants and flowers to my dh, and my MIL's brothers, she just stuffed them all in her trunk. lol Including the spray that should have gone on the mound of dirt.

Greed. Plain and simple. My dh told me last night that from now on when he looks back at the funeral he's going to have bad memories because of his SIL.

I look back at my brother's & dad's funeral with a big smile on my face.

Here's just one of MANY things she did:

My MIL had a lot of costume jewelry. My SIL immediately wanted to go through it and divide it up last Monday, the day they met with the funeral home. I didn't want to, that's my dh's & brother's business.

The three of them were at the funeral home making arrangements while I stayed at the house. It took them a long time and I knew my dh was just exhausted.

She called to let me know they were running late (it was because of her, which is another story, lol) and I told her my dh and I needed to get home because he was tired.

She said, "I wanted you to stay so we could divide the jewelry!" I simply said to her that we needed to bury our MIL before we do anything.

Those are things I had to tell my dh, so he would be on top of it.

Pretty disgusting, isn't it?

I don't think anything should be taken from the home before the reading of the will and didn't you mention going through probate? Doesn't that include contents/belongings that are not bequeathed?

You are probably right Natal about the different areas, etc. but someone had made the point the funeral home usually takes care of that is what I was getting at. The family shouldn't have to pick through and take things.

I like the idea/custom of planting a tree in honor of a person.

tina

Oakley - My response was based on what happens where we live and among our family members. Yes, I do find the behavior that occurred at your MIL's home, disgusting. However, I can't imagine that your MIL would want fighting among her family members upon her death.

Unless your MIL voiced her specific wishes for the distribution the personal contents of her home, IMHO, no one should have taken anything from her home.

I have to assume that things are done very differently regionally and/or familially insofar as funeral flowers are concerned. I've never heard of the taking of entire flower arrangements sent to the funeral home by anyone, family member or not. I guess I can understand the taking of a single flower by the sender of an arrangement to be pressed as a rememberance. Really, what was the purpose of your family members taking these flower arrangements? Most flower arrangements are put together with cut flowers, i.e.; cannot be replanted. The whole situation/dynamic just baffles me.

My wish is peace for you, DH and the rest of your family.

I just would not want to lower myself to the level of the family members whose behavior I was disgusted by.

What your SIL did was horrible. It is a true reflection of who she is. I am truly sorry that your family had to witness that greed. I'm glad you were there to stop her and tell your DH about what was happening. I hope you and your entire family can move on from here. There is no point in being angry or making sure everyone knows about her actions or upsetting your DH or his brother by bringing these insensitive actions tro light again. You, your DH and his brother must all greive over the loss of your MIL. Focusing on what flowers went in who's trunk is not a beneficial way to spend your time. Time to let it go. I'm not saying forget it, just don't fixate on it anymore.

Best wishes to you and your family.

One other thought on the flowers. In our family, we always had services at the church, so we have left the floral arrangements there either for Sunday (if the funeral/memorial service is Saturday) or for the offices and reception area. Of course, I do understand this wouldn't be the choice if a service is actually held in the funeral home.

Tina, the will is "share and share alike" and my dh is the Executor. For legal reasons I don't understand, there is no need for probate. We own her home and car, all that's left is her personal belongings. Plus, dh is an attorney and he knows the legal ways of probate.

SIL did not "share and share alike." With both brother's permission, SIL and I did divide my MIL embroidery stitchings and her depression glass. We didn't want those things to go to strangers. (We're going to auction off her personal belongings like furniture and stuff)

My MIL had about 5 or 6 items that were antiques that came down through the family. Those are the items that are important to share evenly. But SIL didn't do that. She took two items without even talking to my husband and his brother! That doesn't include stealing the flowers.

DH was around her today at MIL's house. He said SIL was in a very "sour" mood towards him. Which means she did get a new one ripped from her dh, and that she's mad she got caught and I didn't "cover her back" like she asked me to do, and that I also ratted on her.

Why she feels like she and her daughters are entitled to these things just baffles me.

I gently tried to explain all of this to her on the phone Saturday morning, how it's not up to she and I to divide ANYTHING, that it's up to the brothers. She just didn't get it. In fact, she kind of cussed to me. lol.

One of the items was a handstitched quilt that my dh's grandmother did (she's like a Saint in our family) years and years ago, and she also stitched her name in the middle of the quilt. SIL took it without permission!

When I mentioned this to her on the phone (again, I was very gentle and nice and tactful to her) she said to me, "Well I'll just bring the f***ing quilt back then." She said that several times. I kept telling her "No, keep it, what's done is done."

She didn't bring the quilt back nor the antique butter churn, after my husband told her specifically to NOT take the butter churn until he and his brother sat and figured out who gets what. But she still took it, the day after my MIL died!!!!

Brothers are doing fine now, doing great in fact! My problem is she was my best friend and she sees me as ratting her out and not having her back.

My dh said, "she wanted you to betray your own husband!" and he was nearly in tears when he said that.

So I'll be the scapegoat to what SHE did. She can't admit what she did was wrong. I took a couple of things from the house (maybe $10 in value) on Monday, and when I got home I apologized profusely to my dh for doing it and I had no problem in returning the things. He said it's okay but he was very appreciative of me owning up to it and seeing how wrong I was. My SIL simply cannot do that.

He said I ought to call her. Huh uh. I'm too chicken. She is MAD! lol

Oakley - you are the one who stated you would be going into probate - not I. That is what confused me because I have never heard of part of an estate going into probate.

As someone mentioned, your MIL would probably be heartbroken at what is going on now. Out of respect and love for her, I do hope that you all work it out.

tina

I personally think, it is a little selfish of the people who pass away, to not leave instructions or a list of who gets what. I guess that is what Oakley's MIL did, assigning her DH as Executor, but, I sure wouldn't want to be in that position.

My SIL's family picked a number who went firt, and each sister (there are 4 of them) took an item, one at a time.

My MIL will have so much stuff when she passes away (FIL is already passed) and each time we go there (we fly) she tries to give me stuff now, but, we don't want it, especially to take on a plane. I told her a couple of things I'd like, when we were there last Thanksgiving, just little things that remind me of her. I am the DIL after all, but, we are close. She does have 6 kids, and my DH would let them have it all before he got upset with anyone. Just the way he is.

Olliesmom, we did a similar thing when we divided up the furniture, jewelry, china, etc. We each wrote down our top three choices. If none of us chose the same things, we got what was on our list. Then, our next three and so on for the high value pieces. We were all pleasantly surprised that there were no duplicates in the first round. There was one conflict in the second group, so we made a deal as we moved on down three at a time. Got the idea from my ex-husband's family when they divided a grandmother's estate. Worked really well for them and for us also.

I think one reason people may not get too explicit in a will is because they worry about writing everything down and increasing the size of the estate that the state and feds look at for tax purposes. Most people don't have to pay Federal estate tax any more with the increased exemptions, but in PA you pay state estate taxes on everything. Family sterling, antiques, and jewelry are often not listed for that reason. It is either not specified or it is done verbally before death. At least, that is how most of my friends and family members have done it for years.