I really don't know why anyone doesn't use these. They're (relatively) easy to install and very leak and crack resistant once in place. The Laticrete drains and drain grates are also really nice.

Thanks so much for the quick reply. I have read enough of these posts to know that you, Bill and other contractors that contribute are very generous in your time and expertise.

The foam board solution seems like a good option for me because getting the pan right with deck mud kind of scares me. I am pretty handy and a perfectionist when I do things, but for the price difference, to not have to worry about it, seems worth it to me.

But it does introduce another question that I forgot to ask. The videos that I have watched suggested that before you lay the panel down over the thinset, to put the pvc glue on the drain so that it can be mated with the drain pipe. My novice experience of working with this pvc pipe glue is that it is pretty fast acting. Besides that, it just seems like an impossibility to set the thing perfectly, so I must have misunderstood the suggestion.

Unfortunately, while I have access to my drain from the basement, it is located in a tight spot above my furnace. Hopefully you can see the pictures attached. Any recommendations on how to approach this? My idea is to cut the pipe where it can be reasonably attached to the drain pipe and attach the rest to the shower pan before laying it down. It will be a little finagling to get the pan down while feeding the short pipe through the hole in the floor. Short of that, I am not sure how to approach it.

If you think based on this situation, I should lean toward putting down deck mud instead, let me know.

Thanks again for your time!

Here is a close-up of the drain which is about 18-24 inches into the ductwork - so it is a stretch.

Cruelty! Thy name is Plumber! And HVAC-guy!

Geez. They really stuffed you there, eh?

"The videos that I have watched suggested that before you lay the panel down over the thinset, to put the pvc glue on the drain so that it can be mated with the drain pipe."

It's easiest and less stressful to set the tray and then go down to the basement and make the PVC connections. Your access looks pretty sketchy in the photo. Only you can tell if you can get access in that joist bay.

If you want to do it all in one shot, you can. Stub out your plumbing so all you have to do is set the pan and drain. I'd consider taking a 2x4 or something similar and wedging it under the PVC elbow that is directly under the drain. Wedge it so it raises the elbow a little higher than it should be.

Then thinset the subfloor and the bottom of the pan. PVC cement the PVC. Set the tray in place, pushing the drain down on to the stub. The 2x4 wedge will prevent the plumbing below from flexing downward. With the drain seated onto the stub, pull the 2x4 wedge and set the tray into the thinset.

I usually put a weight of some sort (drywall bucket with water, for example) over the drain while the thinset sets up.

Or you can McGuyver some other method.

Deck mud will give you a similar challenge in setting the drain. Doing a deck mud slope isn't technically difficult, but mixing and packing the mud is a bit of physical work.

So it's an either/or. Pick your poison! lol

Cruelty! Thy name is ambivalence!

Thanks again for the advice Mongo.

Yeah, I recognize the drain had to go where it went, but did everything else that went in afterward have to make it so much more complicated? The contractors had to know that the shower would be remodeled someday in the future. I am sure other pressures (efficiency and budget) guided them to make that short-sighted decision, so I guess I will be the one "dealing with it later."

Once I have my existing shower demo'd, I will have to see what my options are. I like your idea with the 2x4 wedge, and if that seems too difficult, I might have to hire my tall, thin, Stretch-Armstrong plumber friend to help me out.

I will try to post again in a few weeks once this project is done.

If the drain might be moved a bit from it's current location, there's a chance you'll have to remake the waste pipes from the drain to the trap.

You could install the tray with the drain tailpiece and the first elbow glued on to the drain.

You could probably stab the horizontal branch into the 90-elbow from "afar". Then remake the connections to the trap.

Regardless....good luck with it.

A quick update and a HUGE concern....

I decided to forgo the preformed pan from Laticrete and go with the deck mud approach. I had to take up some subfloor, which exposed the drain pipe and was able to get it all set for the flange drain from Laticrete. One of the reasons I decided to go with the deck mud approach was because of the simplicity of the Laticrete Hydroban topical membrane approach.

After forming the shower pan with the deck mud, I waited 72 hours to let it cure and then applied a thin skim coat of modified thinset (Versabond) to the deck mud in order to create a nice substrate for the Hydro Ban to bond to. Waited another 24 hours.

I was initially set to trowel on the Hydro Ban, but panicked because it wasn't going well and changed to applying it with a paint brush. After the second coat and realizing that I had used a little over a gallon to cover about 90 square feet, I was concerned that the Hydro Ban was not to the specified thickness. The instructions stated that a gallon covers about 50 sqft. So I applied a third layer to the floor and changes of plane.

I waited 12 hours to start my flood test. The color was a solid olive green and there weren't any tacky spots - I had even boosted my thermostat to 73 degrees to help the cure. I stopped my flood test after about 20 hours satisfied that it was holding, noticing no difference in the height of the water and feeling pretty good about my project.

When I came back after checking my drain for leaks, I found that the floor had all sorts of bubbles. Auuuuggghhh! I used a utility knife to cut the bubble and water was released. Under the water bubble appears to be my second coat of Hydro Ban. It seems like the third coat of Hydro Ban didn't bond well to the second coat or that it hadn't completely cured.

Using a rag, I was able to get rid of the bubbles by working them out, but I am all concerned about the bonding surface for the next layer. My flood test was giving me good results, but now I am all sorts of concerned.

What do I do now? Is it sledge hammer time?

deleted message

This post was edited by jeffbyk on Sun, Dec 14, 14 at 10:47

Here is an update from the good people at Laticrete. I spoke with technical support, and the gentleman said that I likely did not wait long enough for the last layer to properly cure completely through. He said the first layer cures quickly because it cures from both sides, but any subsequent layer takes longer and longer to cure because it cures from the outside in. So even though it had the appearance of being cured on the outside, it probably wasn't cured under the surface. Tiny pinholes in that top surface likely allowed the water to get under that layer and form the bubbles.

His suggestion was that I could have repaired it by cutting the bubbles and applying another coat of Hydro Ban. However, the best approach was to scrape it off the pan and start with new. I assumed yesterday that this was going to be the only approach that would give me peace of mind, so I had done that yesterday. I am now down to the bare deck mud/thinset skim coat substrate and will apply the two layers again. This time I will wait at least a full day after the second coat to ensure it is fully cured..

Good advice from the techsters.

Don't overwork it when you apply it. If you back brush it too late, you can "pull" it and create pinholes. I roller might help. The thing is to get it on quickly and then leave it alone.

There are youtube videos that show pretty good technique. Gueuzeman is a character but he does excellent work.

Excellent suggestion Mongo. I reverted to the brush because I was getting hydro ban all over the place. The video link you sent showing how to do it was great - wish I had it before I proceeded.

Thanks again for your help! Will post back once I do my 24 hour test again, hopefully with good results this time.

I finally finished this project and would like to share a few lessons learned, if anyone is interested:
1. Looking back, I decided to go with a deck mud shower pan instead of the preformed Laticrete one. It was pretty much a cost consideration at the time. I am a bit of a perfectionist and the biggest hangup I have with the job I did is how the shower pan turned out. I struggled getting it right and in the end, it just seems like I have too much slope in most areas and not enough in some. The preformed pan would have helped me there. Given the cost of the overall project, the extra cost for the Hydro Ban shower pan would have been nothing to even think about.
2. I spent much of my life over the last two months after work on this project and grew in appreciation for you pros who do it everyday. Not only is it a very physical job, I could never make money at it without charging crazy money. My hat's off to you folks.
3. Much appreciation is sent to the pros that give us DIYers the confidence we need to get over what would stop most. Your input is invaluable.

I will attach a pic of the finished product so that Mongo can take a little credit for helping me get through this one.

Thanks for the help!
Jeff

Here is another pic!

Awesome work Jeff! Also thank you for coming back with the updates because most people dont, and this is how the DIYers like me learn. I think I definitely get more from hearing about mistakes, and I'm happy everything turned out well. The mud deck also scares me so this was nice to come across.

Isnt Mongo awesome!

Wishing you many happy years with your pretty bathroom!

Same here, as Iowa says! It looks great and Mongo is the best!!!

Congratulations on a job well done!

Thanks for the feedback. My wife and I love how it turned out - and because of the advice I read on this forum and others, I know it was done right and made to last.

Just to follow up on the deck mud pan... I went with that approach because I had heard it wasn't too difficult - but my experience with this project proved to me that there is a bit of an art to it. It seems like with practice and knowing what to watch for, it would become pretty straightforward. I know if I were to do it again, it would turn out better. But if this is your first time and you only plan to do it once, I would recommend using the Laticrete preformed pan.

I had so much "fun" with this bathroom project, I am already in the middle of remodeling my other bathroom. I took a day off in between projects. I must be nuts!

LOL, thats what happened to me, I said I would never do it again during the first bathroom remodel. Then before I was finished I had plans started for the second bathroom. It is virtually done now too. Thankfully, I am out of bathrooms :) Looking forward to seeing you next project.

Jeffbyk - nice work on the shower glad you did a follow up on your project I will try to watch for your next bath remodel. We will be embarking on a new shower soon and this will be helpful! It is great to have Mongoct willing to assist and answer DIYer questions.