Oh, Nancy, I am so sorry to read this. I know how much you enjoyed working there.

Was it age related? I don't know but it could be. Don't torture yourself over it.

Hugs!

That just sucks. Age discrimination is real and I am sure women bear the brunt of that. Whether you are a victim or not, hard to know.

You have depth, skills, knowledge, and experience. Some bright new opportunity awaits. I just know it!

Hugs, Eileen

Oh dear, Nancy, I'm so sorry to hear this, I know you enjoyed that job and were good at it. Sigh.

If the entire staff has been let go, and it included college students and not just retirement aged people, it's going to be darned hard to prove age discrimination. On the other hand, you are a member of a "protected class", so if there is any evidence at all.....

Annie

I'm so sorry - having been laid off myself, I understand how you feel.

Age discrimination is easy to hide, but if they had an issue with your age, why would they have promoted you to manager last spring? Also, the fact that they fired everyone, not just you, makes me think age wasn't the root cause. However, were the other employers older as well? That would make a big difference. If you're all older and the company replaces you all with younger employee, that would make me suspicious.

Sue

Thanks...Employee ages... 70, 66, 56 and me. I had one college girl last summer that I think was planning on returning, she was 20.
I'm having lunch next week with the gal that is 56. She just retired a year ago from a major company where she was the head of HR. She still does some consulting on the side. She laughed....she worked for me from last summer on. She felt nobody would work as hard, give up all the summer weekends and do as good a job. Maybe it's just my pride that is hurt. I really expected to be appreciated for stepping up to the plate.

Nancy

Nancy, I have visited your store many times, and I can tell the world that I have nver seen anybody as good with the customers, and as great at promoting the product as you are. I remember telling you once that you ran circles around then the previous manager. And I know that last summer was one of the worst weather-wise in a long time. I think, looking at the ages of the people working for you, that you should consider the fact that age may have played a role. I am sick and tired of seeing age discrimination, and would love to see them get their butts busted if that is what it is about. Maybe you should consider fighting it. My SIL, who is great at what she does, and runs circles around the younger, prettier, slimmer ladies in her office, fought that she was being discriminated because of her weight. She won. Just something to think about.

Nancy, that's really just awful and I'm sorry it happened to you. Perhaps because they fired everyone, it means they will try to hire others who will work for less money.

You just never know what is going on behind the scenes. I just hate corporate America. Everything is about squeezing out profits and the people are overlooked. I'm also concerned about being laid off due to the poor economic conditions. I'm about the same age as you and I know it will be very hard for me to find another position. There are just so many people out there looking.

Good luck and in the meantime enjoy your free time.

Nancy, given the ages of all the employees and the fact that the numbers for such things as total profit were average in a very, very bad year speaks volumes. The economy was bad, the weather was bad, and a lot of people weren't taking vacations to expensive tourists area or spending money on gourmet food products, no matter how good the product it. The fact that your profit margin was pretty much average with other years is kind of amazing, given the circumstances.

Now, since you were all of the age where you were in a "protected class" I think if there is any other evidence at all (i.e. they hire a bunch of much younger replacements, etc.) then you have a viable complaint...

Annie

Nancy, This rots! I'm so sorry to hear this because I know how much you enjoyed your job. I'm hoping you will enjoy your time off...I know Roxie will!

Now, I need to see some pictures of that kitchen!

I'm so sorry Nancy. They are nuts to have let every one go under the circumstances you describe. I'm not sure if I think it could be age discrimination, you won't know until you see who they hire, but in general hiring people for retail isn't easy. The pay is rarely high, turnaround with younger staff can be rapid and there are always the issues of trust, commitment and reliability. I think you were very successful with your year end results with all you had to cope with.

I'm wishing all the best for you,

Lee

Aw, Nancy, I'm sorry to hear this. You seemed to really enjoy that job.

FWIW, I agree with Annie for the most part.

I also have a theory about some of the insane things companies are doing right now. I think there are many companies who are scrambling to make sense of an economy that no longer follows "the rules". It's as if they feel they need to justify what's going on by finding someone to blame -- and they certainly aren't going to blame themselves, so, by thier biased POV, it has to be the workers. It couldn't possibly be the unusually brutal weather, the economy, the fact that high unemployment means people restrict their purchases. Nope, can't be any of that because there's nothing they can do to "fix" those things, and they have to feel like they are "fixing" something.

Which is a long way of saying "Try not to take it personally."

Oh, Nancy....I am so sorry! I know you loved your job, and that's not something a lot of people can say these days!

I think their reasoning is a bit skewed, myself, especially in this economy. I would certainly stay on top of what happens with the store when they begin the new season.

Well, as long as you don't have to depend on the paycheck, you can at least enjoy your remodel. Good luck if you decide to look for another job, it is really slim pickin's right now.

Linda

Oh Nancy! I am so sorry you are going through this! I cant really add much to what has been said... I am just so very sorry :-(

Alexa

Nancy,
I'm sorry to hear this happened to you. (P.S. I'm sure I've been to your store when I've visited family in MI!) I've had 2 friends in the past 18 months (both in sales-oriented positions) who were fired for "performance" reasons. In one case, both age and sex discrimination came into play and my friend had serious and clear documentation (durogatory emails, financial statements that proved she was the top sales performer, stellar performance reviews, etc.). She sued, and after many, many very stressful months (you have to really keep rehashing what you'd rather move on from), she settled. The other friend, though in a similar situation, had no obvious hard evidence. There was no real way for her to pursue a lawsuit. She chose to move on. In both cases, the women were experienced professionals who brought in much more money than they cost the company, but the companies filled their positions with lower paid, younger males.

My friend that sued said the worst part of the process, was how ugly it got. In an effort to try to prove their case, the company owners did everything they could to destroy her reputation among her former co-workers as well as in her industry.

I don't want to unnecessarily discourage you, but in these economic times, with so many who've lost their jobs for so many reasons, I think it will be very hard to make a case of age discrimination.

CARP Nancy! I often think about my visit to your store (Sherry, we did go to that one right?) and how pleasant it was. You are one knowledgable and talented professional and I hope it works out for you one way or another.

I and 2200 colleagues at my office got laid off (by who the media calls Obama's favorite banker). How well I know the some of the feelings you are experiencing.

Hugs to you,
Cathy

Nancy, how awful to be let go when you are doing such a good job. If you live where I think you do, it is among the nicest and most desirable places to spend a summer. My first thought was that someone in the company has a friend or family member who thinks it is a very lovely place too, and needs summer work. It will be interesting to see what happened to the store and sales with a new staff. They are very definitely the loosers.

I know how shocking it can be Nancy. After the dust settles you may find it a blessing in disquise. I never would have had the courage to change up what I do for a living if I didn't have some major life catastrophes which made me sit back and re-evaluate what my priorities were. You are a wonderful, talented lady who can do whatever she wants to do. And whatever you decide I know you will be successful at it. Stay strong and believe in yourself.

Duane

Nancy, I'm very sorry. I know that you really liked your job and the product that you sold. They probably figure they will save a little by hiring new staff and paying them less.

I was never in the store you worked in but I was in the one in Petoskey and the one in Harbor Springs on more than one occasion.

Ann

Nancy,
I am so sorry that you lost your job. I am employed with my county's Sheriff's office as a school crossing guard. I am one of the younger ladies since I am only 53, the others are all older than I am . My supervisor is in his 70's but doesn't look like it. Try looking into getting a job like mine. I work for an hour and 20 minutes in the morning from 6:55 -8:15 am and then in after noon I work for about 55 minutes 2:25 -3:10 pm, The rest of the day is mine to do anything I want to. I do not drive to my crossing , I walk across my back yard and about 20 feet down the fence line is my crossing area. My uniform is furnished by the office so I do not have to buy it.

Nancy I'm so sorry to hear the news and can't imagine how badly you must feel, when you know you were doing a good job and loved what you were doing.

I'm sure the business will suffer without your experience and that of your co-workers. I know how difficult it is to find reliable staff. They have surely lost out by letting you go.

I hope you'll be able to enjoy some free down time and then find another good position.

SharonCb

You mean they fired you and your staff.....and are going to hire some other people to run that store? I thought they closed the store from the first post!

If you bring an age discrimination suit and you win a...or they hire you back as the announcement that you will be doing that....would you accept the job again?
No...I didn't think so!
So now you need to find another store in the area and bust your buns to bring in the traffic.....how about the new store that you mentioned as a competitor??
Linda C

(((hugs)))

Nancy, I'm so sorry to read this news. I also knew you really enjoyed your job & the schedule worked well. I also feel badly for your staff.

Are you positive the corporation is restaffing? Is it possible your location has been targeted for closure entirely?

If management fires you for what they refer to as "cause" (no matter that it's NOT true!) they may get away without providing a severance package. Make sure they've followed the personal manual to the letter with a paper trail consisting of written warnings, performance reviews, etc. documentating that "cause". At many companies today the HR director is being told to reduce staff without layoffs that require severance benefits. People are really not considered as humans - just FTEs...just another corporate asset to be shuffled around at management's whim.

No doubt about it - it s@cks!

July '09, DH tried to use the family leave law to take care of me after my accident & stroke. There's a little clause in that law that says if an employee is considered critical to the financial strength of the company that employee may be refused leave & fired. That's exactly what they did to DH. DH was furious but because he was near retirement & knew he had protected status due to his age he negotiated a favorable severance package by casually mentioning an age discrimmination suit. After several weeks of haggling back/forth with their attorney & ours DH signed the severance agreement foregoing his right to suit. We seriously considered suing; but knowing it would take years & not wanting to have it a main focus in our lives combined with my health problems decided it was in our best interest to just get on with our lives. DH felt panic at first & spent about 3 weeks networking that resulted in a couple job offers...one in Boulder & another in Philly. I flat refused to go to Boulder (I hated CO)...told DH he would have to commute. I agreed to the Philly move provided we didn't sell our Mystic home. We were all set to move, leased a downtown high-rise apartment in one of the luxury buildings with a 24-hour doorman, concierge service, private entrance into Starbucks & boutiques, etc. to entice me to move. Then reality hit. One night, DH looked at me over dinner & said, "Hon, this is insanity. We're two years from retirement. What are we doing? Neither of us wants to relocate. You're not healthy enough to even consider this move. We're not going. As of this minute, I'm officially retired!" It was a bit scary at first but is proving every day to be the right decision. DH is puttering as a consultant with a CT law firm & he was here when I really needed him. We're planning a long cross-country trip for later this year & adapting well to the idea of retirement. What I'm trying to say is that, sometimes, life follows unexpected paths & they aren't necessarily bad...just different & it takes us awhile to adjust. We thought we had our retirement all planned & darn it(!) the timing was 2 years short. We are now retired 8 months & even though there's no gold watch we are very happy, our kids & grandkids are happy & we've learned, hopefully, a lesson about planning. Stay flexible.

It will take a bit of time to work through your feelings about losing this job because you so enjoyed the position. Once you go through all of the emotions though you may very well discover, as we have, that what we thought was a loss was in reality a gain. I hope so.

We've lost some shops here in Mystic also due to the economy. Fewer tourists. Fewer boaters. Fewer casino hoppers. Fewer leaf peepers. More daytrippers & fewer week long vacationers. I don't think it's over. We expect this summer to be really tough. Thank goodness we have the submarine base, USCG Academy, & Pfizer in Groton or Mystic would really be suffering.

Keep your spirits up & give me a call, if you'd like.

/tricia

I'm so sorry, that stinks! My only experience with them was to one of the company stores in Saugatuck with the Canny Camp Crew. I did buy a few items that were delicious, but I was struck by the poor sales job of their salesperson. I might have been willing to try & buy many more items and ship them home, but she was unenthusiastic and dull so I bought my few items and left.

>>

"Employee ages... 70, 66, 56 and me"

I think you should talk to a lawyer. If everyone working there was over 50, and you all got laid off--I think something's smelly. An initial consultation shouldn't cost you anything, and if everyone fired agrees, you might have a class action suit.

You could wait to see if the new hires are significantly younger, but I'd want to see what protection would be available under the law.

Sad.....really Sad......but let me tell you.....I would rather deal with someone older.....than younger....just one reason I don't like shopping at the Malls. If you are lucky enough to find someone to help you, try to get your question answered. No experience is the problem !!! Sad just Sad !!! Diana55

Nancy, I am sorry. I hope you find what Duane said is true and that it will be a blessing in disguise. This economy is awful and can only hope and pray it will get better.

Nancy, I sure wish we lived closer. I think right about now we two would be having a few cocktails!

Linda

Nancy, just adding my voice to those who are very sorry to read of this. This type of treatment can be very demoralizing, but it sounds like you know you are a good manager and a hard worker. And it sounds like you are starting to see the glass half full rather than all empty!

Good luck to you when you start job searching again.

janet

The comments you have all made really help. I value the experience you all have. I had debated whether to say anything at all, I'm glad I did.

I'll keep an eye on what goes on at the store for sure, who they hire,ages, improvements etc.. I had already made a list of goals and needed building improvements for 2010. I kept it to myself, no way was I going to give it to him. If it does turns out looking like age discrimination, I doubt I would pursue anything, but I have 180 days from the date of being fired to decide on that.

An interesting side note, the head of HR, who also is the head of customer service has told me twice that she really wants me to come back into the main office this fall to work the busy season in customer service. I just looked at her and said, "the man just fired me, why would I want to help the company out in any way?". She understood but tried to convince me that I would be helping her, not him. I just laughed and told her not to count on it. I'm still laughing.

I'm not going to dwell on this whole episode. I have a feeling that the company is hurting and there's more painful cuts coming. This location just might end up being closed for good at the end of 2010. He did say that if this summer turns out as bad as last summer, that he would have no choice but to close it.

Beenthere_dunthat nailed it.. he has to think he is 'fixing' something.

Doucanoe, I wish we lived closer too! I'd take you up on those cocktails!

Annie, watch out! I may head you way soon.

Cotehele, yes, this is a wonderful place to live. I'm lucky! I hope anyone who is planning a trip up here let's me know so we can get together.

Dukerdawg, I have a plan! The shock has worn off.

I have always planned on pursuing art. I'm setting up an area for my oil painting. I will see how I like what I paint, haven't painted much in the last few years and am anxious to get back into it. I can see myself out on the deck this summer or upstairs in my special place. The beauty that surrounds me is very inspiring.
If all goes well, I will either get involved with and existing gallery or think about opening one myself. Just have to have enough new paintings to pull it off. This area is known for the studio's and galleries. Now, I have time to go for it! Kim is very supportive of this idea and would love to see me do it.

Can't answer everyone but thanks. You have helped more than you know.

Nancy

Nancy, I know there is still more healing but I'm glad to hear that you are sounding better about the situation. And to already have something to focus on is terrific. Do I remember correctly that we saw evidence (picture on the forum) of your artistic abilities?

Cathy

Nancy, I don't have time right now to read all the responses to your post, but I want to tell you how sorry I am that this happened. It's aggravating, hurtful, frustrating, and oh, I can't think of all the adjectives that are appropriate, but I think many of us have been fired before. It's not fun, but all you can do is pick yourself up, dust off, and move on. It's not a reflection of you, but the idiots that only look at numbers and not what's really happening, sort of like firing a coach that loses the super bowl. Take care - I'll be thinking of you.

Sally

Well d@mn...I am so sorry Nancy.

(((HUGZ)))

Susie

Nancy, come on down anytime, you know that my door is always open. And Ashley and Elery would both love to see you and Kim again too!

Heck, you finish your kitchen remodel and I'll have to get you to help me when Elery and I build at the farm. You know I lack any decorator gene, but you're wonderful.

Between you and Ashley, my place could be very fashionable, LOL, as long as I keep the horses out of the kitchen. (grin)

Annie

Cathy, I don't remember if I may have posted a picture of one of my paintings in the past. I know I did one from a picture that Canerybird posted at one time (with her permission). My tastes have changed over the years and I am into a more contemporary look but with some realistic thrown in. I've been watching over on the Home Dec forum and plan to consider the current home dec colors as I paint. I've painted quite a few paintings in my head already. It doesn't hurt that I'm redecorating my home in a more contemporary style.

Nancy

I want to add my voice to the condolences Wiz! I was fired once, and it was from a job right down the coast from you, so I can relate. Before I got fired, I thought people only got fired if they were incompetent, insubordinate, or because of malfeasance. Now I know that people get fired for any old whim of a reason, even though their boss will never say, "I fired her because I figured I could save some money by hiring someone new at 1/4 the salary" or "her style just didn't gell with mine (cause I'm a jerk)" or "better her than me gets the ax" or whatever. Of course they will never say something like that, and if you sue, they will drag your name and money through the mud like nobody's business, and there's no garuntee you will win just because what they did was unjust. Better to count your blessings and move on. I have a lot of water under the bridge from my firing, at the time I was devastated, but now looking back on it the only regret I have is that I ever wasted my time working there in the first place. I am SO THANKFUL not to be associated with those people any more. It was such a great blessing to be released from their bad karma. I too had a plan, went back to grad school, and only good things happened to me professionally afterwards, I grew and grew in ways I would never have done without having to put "Plan B" into effect. Two years after being fired I was at a staff rally for the school district I was working for, surrouned by caring, professional, DIVERSE people, and I thought "Thank you G-d I was delivered from those horrible people who fired me, I am so glad that I didn't fit in there!! What a horror it would have been to have actually fit in. These are my people, thank G-d!"

And I bet the same thing will happen for you if you just let go of the initial shock and disappointment. In fact I KNOW that it will be for the best. Those people are idiots, (well actually I have another word but I won't go there). Good bye and good riddance! On to MUCH BETTER things.

I don't think I can add anything meaningful to what the others have said here. I just wanted to tell you I am terribly sorry you lost your job. That has to be a really difficult thing to go through in more ways than one.

Beverly

I am very sorry to hear this. In the best-of-all-possible worlds you'll either discover you enjoy being free or you'll go to work for the competitor and blow your old company out of the water.

I was really interested in this Newsweek article about all the reasons why mass layoffs are a bad idea. Obviously your company didn't read it. They may discover replacing all the staff at your previous shop (if that's what they actually do) is akin to economic hari-kari.

Carol

Here is a link that might be useful: The Case Against Layoffs

I was just watching a Dilbert cartoon comedy show tonight where the joke was that the boss fired all his employees to avoid getting fired himself. ha ha. And having re-read where you used to work part time for the company, and then you switched to full time, I would suspect that is part of it. Did you get health insurance as part of your benefits? One easy thing you can do is apply for unemployment. Yes they could challenge it, but I dare them to . . . And no way in heck would I ever go back working for them unless I was desperate.
Anyway, best to focus on your new life and not dwell on jerkiness. But for me it just hits home the message for you Nancy, Goodbye and good riddance, on to better things!

Sorry to hear about your luck. We just don't have many decent employers here in Michigan. I still read the Detroit newspaper(s?) fairly regular and it seems what employers are not going to jail are just getting out. Our politicians have special luxury jail cells for their stays behind bars. Aunt Jenny spent the stimulus money on payroll last year rather then stimulating anything.... be somebody else's problem I guess. Hey!... that must mean we finally get to be a "somebody"! We have arrived.

I know... sick sense of humor. Hang in there my friend.

: )
lyra

Nancy,

I can't really write what I want to say. I fear it will sound trite.

Don't know about age discrimination and will not comment other than litigation is hell . . .

Being laid off . . I was laid off last May and rehired by same company (boss gone) this January. I am a very different person.

My company was hurting pretty badly and we were laying off folks. I reported to the CEO and lived in fear and was, of course, laid off.

I now know if the same thing happens, I will be fine. Took me a while to tell folks what happened. I busted my bunns . . . and assumed no one would ever consider firing me. But, as you say, it happened.

I am living a great gift - they realized it was a mistake. However, I will never be as afraid again and I actually think I am a better person because of it.

All that being said, it hurts like hell. BTW - 60 is young. Think that way and follow lindac's advice.

(Hugs)

Adele

I've been busy with business and family issues so I'm just now hearing about this Nancy.

HELLO! I don't anyone in sales or retail who hasn't had a slump in sales the last year or more. Good for you for maintaing the same profit ratio even with the slower sales. That speaks volumes to me as a sales manager. Something is so wrong with their decision IMHO!

(((hugs))) to you my friend! I'm looking forward to hearing about or seeing some of your art work though. Too cool!

David

Nancy, I don't have any great advice but just read your post and wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you and I'm sending strength and positive vibes your way... ((()))

I really do appreciate the warmth generated on this forum. It really does make me feel better.

I had lunch today with one of my former employee's. She has a whole theory on this episode. In short, making a place for the girlfriend of the owners son to work... only time will tell. I was supposed to go back to work March 29, to have the store ready to open by Easter this year.

Guess we'll see what happens.

Meanwhile, I've adjusted my head and am looking forward to a great summer... that's if I ever get the spring cleaning done!

Nancy

Nepotism. That's what I figured. I understand how many people say you wouldn't want to go back anyway, so why make a stink...BUT, I am tired of people getting treated this way, especially people our age, Nancy. it just makes me fighting mad.

Nancy, I'm just now reading about this and am sorry it happened to you. By now you know it isn't personal (even if it feels like it) and I'm encouraged to hear it sounds like you're now in a good planning phase. ((Hugs)) to you my friend! It may sound weird, but I try to look at things like this as opportunities, for whatever they bring. It sounds like you already have a good handle on that. I'll be very interested to hear about what's come to you in its place, when more is revealed. Be sure to keep us posted...I believe you're going to have much more to tell us!

Oh Nancy I am just reading this now. What a bummer. I know how much you enjoyed the job and also know what a fabulous manager you are. Don't over think it it , it will just make you unhappy and we haven't any time for that in our lives.

Knockers up sweetie.........

I'm with Linda C. Go to work for the competitor and let this company know what it's like to REALLY have their sales down. Wouldn't that be such sweet revenge!

Well, I guess I need to remember there is more to the CF than just the main part, and keep coming to conversations more!

I'm so sorry, Nancy. I know where DH and I will NOT be shopping if we get back up your way this summer! Even if the product was delicious! I am glad to hear you have some great plans in the works, tho.

Tami

What a Bummer Nancy! Looks like you're working through it really well though so I say go with chase...

"Knockers up Sweetie"

preferably in the pool ;-)