Help! Opinions on appliance choices, esp. Miele cooktop

16 years ago

First, thanks to everyone here! I've been reading the posts for over two months now and there is so much great information. I'm trying to finalize the kitchen appliances for my new home. I think I have everything figured out except the cooktop. I would love some feedback on my choices as well as ideas or info. about the cooktop.

Choices so far:

GE Monogram All-Fridge/All-Freezer (36" each)

Miele Master Chef 30" Single-Wall Oven

Miele Warming Drawer

Gaggenau Combi

Two Miele Dishwashers (still selecting exact model and also debating whether to do one Miele and one Bosch--both w/ panels & concealed controls)

Microwave (possibly with lift door from Miele or cabinetry)

Cooktop??? I need at least 5 burners and don't want electric. I like the temperature control with gas and induction.

*Considering the GE Monogram, 5-burner gas

*However, would really like more info. on the Miele induction cooktop that I've read (on this forum) may be available in the USA sometime in the next 6 months.

*I know others have mentioned Dacor and some other models, but I'm getting down to the wire and am running out of time to check them all out.

Any opinions or information would be greatly appreciated! Thanks so much!

Twotutango

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Comments (15)

podge8
16 years ago
Sorry, no experience with Miele, but here's what I wrote to another poster about GE Monogram cooktops:

I just installed the 30" version of the GE Monogram cooktop last week, and love it. The simmer on all four burners is great, and yes, you really can melt chocolate on a paper plate on the simmer setting! The highest burner goes to 18,000 BTU, which is plenty of heat. I believe it is more power than any of the other brands you are looking at. Even the smaller burners are very powerful and I have yet to leave them on high for anything. But what has impressed me the most is the range of heat, from low to high. You can find a setting on every burner to suit anything you need to do, from searing to simmering. Also, the prices on Monogram appliances are very competitive or even much less than the other premium brands. Highly recommended!
twotutango
Original Author
16 years ago
Thank you podge8, your comments were some that got me looking at the GE Monogram cooktop prior to my post. I looked at the 5-burner, gas cooktop in Feb., but hadn't heard much about the induction at that point. I'm just not sure a 30" will do it for me--I am looking at a 36", but thanks to your info. I am still checking out the entire GE Monogram line.
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Are you jumping off the ledge or pushing your DH off? :>) For Toyota vs. Cadillac (or BMW/AUdi/Mercedes etc.), that is an endless debate here. Have you seen the threads about "is Subzero worth it?" Do a search (or try google if nothing turns up.) I'll second what Deeageaux said about the Samsung refrigerator Samsung fridges tend to be pretty reliable and many seem to be long lived by today's standards. There are a lot of favorable postings here. The rap on Samsung is warranty service for the FD units that do have problems, as every manufacturer's line of products do. Consumer Reports' surveys of its membership currently show that about 14% of Samsung FD fridges have had problems in the first six years of onwership. That is right on the edge of statistical significance. According to CR, Whirlpool Corp.'s line FD fridges have the best rating with an 11% problem rate but difference of 5% points or less are said to be "statistically insignificant." I know numbers of people who have had Samsung fridges for years and have had no problems whatever. Obviously, all of my friends are among the 86% of Samsung fridge owners who never have problems with their fridges. From what I found at various sites such as Consumeraffairs.com, the problems with Samsung fridges is not that some of them break down but, rather, that Samsung has outsourced warranty service. Some of the service providers seem to be unusually able to provoke numerous irate (and extremely irate) postings about inept, unresponsive, and bad service. Most major manufacturers seem to have followed this fad and are now generating increasingly large collections of irate postings. But, I am curious. The Samsung RF 428 is -- AFAIK -- a standard depth fridge where the Liebherr and SZ models youa re looking at are "built-in" models. Because built-in fridges are sold in far fewer numbers that counter-depth (CD) and standard depth (SD) fridges, they are several times more expensive. Is a wood-clad "intergrated" unit a "must-ave" or a "it might be nice" kind of thing? If we are talking car analogies here, I'm neither Toytoa nor Cadillac. I'm more of Subaru buyer, both stylistically and budgetarily. For fridges, this seemed to put me somewhere between KitchenAid CD and Liebherr CD fridges when I was recently shopping for a new fridge. I would up with a KA model. Personally, I could care less about hiding a fridge behind wood cladding and, if I did care, I would have recessed a standard fridge into a nook and built myself a cabinet around it. (Fine Homebuilding magazine had a design for this about five or six years ago). But, if wood cladding is a "must" have, I would be inclined to go with the Liebherr rather than the SZ as long as you live someplace where you can get decent service when anything goes wrong. One thing about SZ is that, even in rural Montana where I live, SZ service and support seems to have a good reputation. I know six or seven families with SZ fridges and nonbody who has ever had a problem getting SZ service (and several of them have needed it multiple times.) Lieherr does not seem to have any kind of a presence in my part of the state. (Liebherr loaders and heavy equipment? Now, that's a different story.) When I was shopping for a fridge here several months ago, I could not find any local dealers where I could even look at a Liebherr refrigerator, let alone get warranty service. So, Liebherr was not a brand I would consider for where I live. YMMV. For rangehoods, I would suggest a Kobe over Zephyr. I have a Zephyr because I have a very small kitchen and needed a hood that was short rather than tall. The limitation of the Zephyr hoods is that they have flat bottoms, so they do not have the capture capability that a canopy type rangehood does, like the Kobe. Search on Kobe hoods here and you will find that most reviews are very positive. As for induction versus gas cooktops,there is no consensus on which is "best." Too many variables. If you want social approbation for your choice, then it depends on who you friends are and what their individual preferences are. Personally, I have an abstract preference for induction over gas. But, I discovered that I had to compare the units actually available to me when I recently had to shop for a new stove. I wound up with a particular gas stove even though I set out to buy an induction stove. This was because I found I liked working with my particular gas stove (an NXR) a bit more than the induction range (Samsung, Whirlpool) that were within my price range. My choice had virtually nothing to do with the usual gas versus induction arguments. It was all about working with the actual stoves. Where were the controls, how would I like using them, etc. Also look at what else has to be done to accommodate one or the other. (I'm talking about things like such as wiring or running gas lines. Beyond that, unless you have a specific preference for and a collection of expensive tin-lined antiquue copper, do not let cookware dissuade you from considering induction. There is a lot of relatively inexpensive but good quality induction cookware available. (Lots of postings here and on the Kitchen and Cookware forums about this subject. Costco. for example, has several sets of good stuyff for less than $200, for example.) Plus, if you live in a warm climate, I would highly recommend induction over gas. (But, then, I'm far less heat tolerant than I was decades ago when I worked in restauraunt kitchens and, later, when the government could sen me out in the midsummer sun in places like Twenty Nine Palms and Panama.) If it is at all feasible, try out the induction cooktops and see about the noise factor. It affects some people and not others, and seems to vary with the unit selected, the installation, the cookware used, the phase of the moon, and other intangibles. BTW, both GE and the Electrolux induction cooktops units have received favorable reviews here. I've found Gary's many postings on his Electrolux to be very informative. I do not know anything about setting induction cooktops flush into countertops except that I have seen it done. The one concern I would have about insetting a cooktop is that, however finely finished, there is inevitably some kind of seam or gap or ledge. For me, a seam around the edge of the cooktop will create a place for goo to collect, and be hard to clean, as well as creating a crack into which spills can seep and leak. Doubtless you have already thought about this aspect, so I don't need to go on about it. This post was edited by JWVideo on Sat, Jan 12, 13 at 3:36
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I have a Liebherr All-Fridge and Gaggenau All-Freezer. The Liebherr has nice bins and drawers but not the quality of Gaggenau-Thermador-Bosch(BSH) built-ins.The mechanicals on the Liebherr are as good and efficient as anything out there and better than most. Doors on the BSH have a heavy or some might say luxurious feel. Liebherr has light weight doors or some might say cheap/or cheezy feeling. The bio-fresh safes work as well as anything out there. Thermador DW are rebadged mid-upper end Bosch units. For the price you would think you got top-of-the-line Bosch units but,alas,you don't. If getting the Miele I would get at least the Crystal because that has the built-in water softner.Unless of course you have really soft water in your area. Both KA and Thermador have had electric oven trouble in the immediate past.Both claim issues have been resolved. Not too many buyers on this forum to confirm issues resolved. I would look at Electrolux wall ovens if looking at upper mid class or Wolf/Gaggenau if looking at top end. The Wolf /Gaggenau microwaves are seperate units but you could just buy the Sharp microwave drawer and place it underneath the wall oven and save some money. Definetly take Bluestar cooktop/rangetop over Thermador/Wolf.
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I've been looking at exactly the same choices. It seems if you want both open burners and gas broiler it's Blue Star or Wolf AG. Both have too many issues for me to feel comfortable choosing. So, give up the gas broiler and then go with Wolf gas rangetop plus Monogram -- safe choices and the benefits of a wall oven. But no gas broiler. One other possibility -- American is going to have a wall oven that you can get in either electric or gas. Has french doors -- very attractive --. But right now I'm back at where the OP started -- Wolf rangetop with Monogram oven and Advantium. Still looking . . . . .
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Jrueter, my fridge and ovens are arranged exactly as your plan. And what a timely question since the ice maker on my 4 ½ yo 36” KitchenAid SxS CD was replaced today. I didn’t pay enough attention to the selection of a refrigerator during my remodel. I was working 55 hrs/week at a start-up at the time and didn’t devote much time to the search. I originally wanted to keep my previous refrigerator… it had a drop-down “deli shelf” that meant drinks could be removed without opening the door. Cavernous interior. But I allowed our GC to talk me into a CD model so it would present a sleek profile with the rest of the kitchen. We were moving walls and I should have opted for a recess into the adjacent room where I could have built bookcases around it. Oh, well, he was a great GC (good friend of DH) and highly recommended the KitchenAid CD refrigerator… had the same one in his own home. I finished my kitchen in 2005 and have hated the fridge ever since. Let me count the ways: *Fridge shelves are necessarily narrow due to the SxS design. Constantly shuffling things around to accommodate any large item. *All interior space is cut into little chunks, especially in the freezer. *One door shelf is actually only 1 3/8” deep and 8” from the floor. Deep knee bend required and the only thing I have found to store there is butter. Not exactly a bad thing, I suppose, if I remember to look there. Very limited possibilities with shelf adjustment since everything has to mesh with the door shelves. *Freezer is 13” wide. And only 9.5” deep on one shelf. I have to think twice about buying frozen anything or storing a load of chicken stock. *Ice maker frequently spits out the last cube onto my wood floor, but I think this is common with all ice-on-the-door styles. *Ice maker died over 4th of July weekend… replaced today for $245. That’s 4.5 years of service prior to its death. I do like the three bins at the bottom of the freezer. They hold a lot and glide well and it’s easy to sort items for finding them later. I see you have 42" devoted to the refrigerator. Maybe you'll avoid the negatives I have experienced. Our kids are grown and only DH and I have to contend with this refrigerator. Otherwise I would have admitted my mistake, returned or sold it and replaced it with something else within a few months of purchase. I didn't give a second thought to the oven door handle matching the fridge's. I chose a side-swing oven door and LOVE that. To address your interest in the French door freezer-on-bottom style �" if you don’t choose ice-on-the-door you will need to pull out a heavy drawer to get to the ice that is toward the back of that drawer. An LG I looked at had another shelf that had to be slid back to access the ice. Way to complicated for an ice cube. I am into the ice all day and don’t want to do that. Guess I am hard to please! But you said you were into the ice all day… think about getting ice from below knee level each time. I am over 60 and this was not a good option for me. I see you have 42" devoted to the refrigerator. Maybe you'll avoid the negatives I have experienced. Since DH plays golf frequently with the GC, I get to rib him about the fridge all the time. Small satisfaction there. Live and learn. Here is a link that might be useful: Ovens adjacent to fridge
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mart242
16 years ago
FWIW, I have the Miele 36" induction (I'm in Canada) and it's awesome. Lots of power and perfect control. I wouldn't go back to gas.
twotutango
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks mart242. I've been trying to find out if and when the Miele 36" induction will be available in the US, but so far no luck. DH says he has no problem buying and shipping from Canada, so that may be the next place I look. It's nice to hear opinions from those that are using the product in real-life.
jamesk
16 years ago
I'm a huge fan of Miele appliances. I've been using them for more than 30 years (I lived in Europe before they were available in N. America). My current house has Miele laundry appliances, dishwasher, oven, warming drawer and vacuum cleaners. When it came to a cooktop, however, I chose a Gaggenau 36" model KG291. I've been extremely pleased.

I considered the Miele 36" gas cooktop, but I didn't like the arrangement of the burners or the control panel. The Gaggenau has better burner spacing, a superior control panel, and I think it looks much better. I'm very glad I made the choice that I did. The Gaggenau performs flawlessly and has proven to be very reliable. I recommend it. It's available in two versions, one with a very stylish aluminum control panel, and the second with a more utilitarian stainless steel control panel. I went with the stainless steel version because it seemed like it would be easier to keep looking clean and new longer. I think I made the right choice.

Here is a link that might be useful: Gaggenau KG 291 Gas Cooktop
fitzski
16 years ago
Along with mart242, I ended up with a Miele induction cooktop.

I was sold on induction technology the moment I first learned of it - the incredibly efficiency and safety features made it a no brainer for me. Among the cooktop choices, the Miele was attractive for a few reasons.

First, a pretty good promotion made the outlandish price a tiny wee little bit easier to justify.

Second, we were already set on a Miele dishwasher, wall oven and vent hood... so might as well "keep it in the family".

Third, installation requirements were not cumbersome, especially in regards to the minimum clearances. It's a pretty svelte unit, and does not force you to compromise on other aspects of your kitchen design and layout.

Fourth, and most important, was that to me it came across as the most well-sorted unit. There is great attention to detail in the features it delivers, in the customization of features, in the breadth of safety features, and in outright performance/power.

I'm surprised it's still not available State-side... I wonder what the hold-up is?
mart242
16 years ago
But unlike fitzski, who's induction cooktop currently sits in his basement while he finishes his kitchen renovation, I actually use mine. ;) (hehe.. I couldn't resist)

The Miele promo in canada was great, buy the induction cooktop and get henckels pots & pans, buy a cooktop, oven and range hood and you'll get 1000$ back from Miele in addition to the pots & pans.

Just look at the individual timers for each burner, programming mode (which I haven't used yet), layout. It's great.
fitzski
16 years ago
Nice try, Martin! It's installed... along with the rest of the appliances... and we've been using the cooktop for about a 2 weeks! It's great - I love the speed and immediacy of temperature changes. There is a small learning curve to really maximize your use of the cooktop, but it's very intuitive for the basics.

My only gripe is fingerprints... it accumulates more paw prints than a bar waitress...

Here is a link that might be useful: fitzski's renovations
twotutango
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks for all of your comments, links, and photos--fitzski, your kitchen looks great! I really believe the Miele induction cooktop is the one I want, not only because your comments and everything I've heard about the quality of Miele, but also because I have small children at home and very much like the safety of induction vs. gas. (I will probably have a gas range in a basement canning kitchen, just for when I really need it.) My difficulty now is trying to get the info. and specs on the Miele as well as figure out how to purchase one in Canada, since I am not familiar with any dealers there. I talked to the Miele rep here (Salt Lake City, Utah) and he said he knew nothing about the Miele induction cooktop becoming available in the US--then he quickly mentioned Viking and Thermador which I have already ruled out. I think I will get a second opinion, since he seemed to just be ready to make some kind of sale. Maybe DH and I will just have to take a trip to Canada. ;-)
fitzski
16 years ago
Installation requirements are readily available online (cut-out dimensions, clearances, electrical, etc).

IIRC... somebody posted that q4-2007 was anticipated availability in the USA. Perhaps an e-mail to Miele USA would enlighten.

Where abouts are you in the States? You could try the Miele Canada Dealer Locator (link below) to find the closest shops.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Canada: Dealer Locator
twotutango
Original Author
16 years ago
Thanks fitzski. I actually emailed Miele last week and still haven't received an answer from them, although today I talked to a Miele rep who definitively said that although they don't have an "official" release date, the induction cooktop is still slated to be available in the US by the end of 2007. However, he didn't know at first if it would have the same dimensions as the Canadian model. (I looked up all the specs for the 36" model available in Canada). After some checking, I was told that the US model should be very similar to the Canadian KM5773. The one thing I wasn't able to determine from the online manuals is the distance required beneath the unit for ventilation (how much cabinet space needs to be left clear--I was hoping to still have room for two large drawers for pots and pans). It's probably there, but even with a PhD sometimes I miss things! I'll have my DH take a look at the manuals once he is back in town. For now it seems that I should be OK to move ahead with my cabinets and plan on purchasing the Miele in the US near the beginning of the year.

Thanks again for the help!
margareta_mi
16 years ago
Do the Miele timers actually turn off the burners or do they just make a sound?
canuck99
16 years ago
Turn off the burners.
gizmonike
16 years ago
To the OP:

We have a Gaggenau combi-steam oven and 2 Miele Excella dishwashers, both fully integrated with custom panels. We've been in our kitchen for 6 months & could not be more pleased with their performance.
beatrix_in_canada
16 years ago
I've been cooking with my Miele induction cooktop for 2 months now and very happy. Wonderful control! And yes, the promotion was also the final thing than won me over considering that the prize was otherwise hard to justify. Clearance below is really very little. I have two deep pot drawers and a shallow spice drawer underneath.

The picture also shows one of the henckel pots I got :-)

{{gwi:1439263}}

Help! Opinions on appliance choices, esp. Miele cooktop

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