Help/Feedback on Appliance Choices for a kitchem remodel

12 years ago

Hello, this is my first post on here and I have been reading a lot lately. My wife and I are in the very beginning stages of a full kitchen remodel on our townhouse.

We have some ideas of our own and are in the process of finding a good local kitchen designer (West burbs of Chicago). We have been going to local show rooms to get ideas of what we like and don't like for appliances. So far we have made the following decisions, but I would like to get some feedback from the very knowledgeable people on this forum.

Cooktop/Range top: We are leaning toward either the Wolf cooktop (model # CT36GS) or something from Bluestar, either a Rangetop or Cooktop. Honestly probably leaning toward the Bluestar myself, not sure if the wife is leaning either way.

Wall Oven/Micro Combo: We liked the look of the KA (don't know model number) we saw in a showroom until we found out they were one complete unit. So, if something goes bad on either one you have to replace/repair both. After that we are now looking at the Thermador oven/micro combo, though we are really open on this selection. Right now we like this one (model # MEMC301ES). We like the idea of the convection/micro model, but don't know much about them to be honest.

Fridge/Freezer: Right now we really like the SZ stuff, but are really leaning more toward a Liebherr. We are looking at the HRB 1110 (24" fridge only) and the mated freezer also 24" (model # HF 851). We love the look of the SZ stuff, but not sure if we can fit that in to the budget. I personally do want a 2 compressor system and think we have narrowed it down to these.

We have not even looked at hoods yet, so I still need to do research on those, but we are open to suggestions.

DW: we are looking at the Miele line, but nothing specific. I like the upper flatware tray and the wife likes the overall look. I have read good reviews of most of the line on this site and others, but again open to suggestions.

We are looking for feedback on our choices so far, and we are really looking to real world type experience with any of these units. Also, if you have other suggestions for us on any of the appliances, things to look for or stay away from that is what we want.

Our wants/needs:

- There is just the 2 of us.

- We cook but neither of us are "cooks" We like to experiment in the kitchen, but have a picky palate. We also both love to bake, but my wife is much better at that than I am.

- Mid to high end appliances that will last us for a good long time, we don't plan on moving for at least 5 years probably more like 10.

- We like to really use or stuff, not just have it there for show.

- We like good looks.

- Want a 2 compressor fridge/freezer setup

- Like the look of stainless, but probably will have at least the fridge/freeze with panels on it, maybe also the DW.

Please feel free to post your thoughts on our lineup so far, and ask me anything else you need for clarification.

Thanks,

Phil

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Comments (5)

joc6820
12 years ago
You mentioned you liked the Thermador oven. I just ordered a full Thermador package. Two "free" appliances (DW and hood, more than 3K value) and a 3rd year of warranty on everything. Pretty aggressive promotion, "1, 2 free." They have dual compressor refrigerators, what I got, and separate column models. I liked their stuff so it made sense to me. Was much better, cost-wise, than SZ, Wolf and Miele options. Can't say how good it is yet because I don't have it (new construction).
Elite_1
12 years ago
I'm waiting for cabinetry, but I've bought all my appliances some time ago after exhaustive research and shopping around.

If you're ordering a single-unit fridge, the ones with dual compressors are Sub-Zero and Liebherr, plus now the Bosch stuff, including Thermador & Gaggenau.
Remember that if you're doing 2 separate columns you will automatically have your 2 compressors with whatever you do.
There are some very attractive column options from Thermador. The unification kit makes it look like 1 single unit.
I liked the shelving better in the Bosch ones than the Liebherr.

For dishwashers, I think you'll like some Bosch & Thermador models. The higher models also feature the 3rd rack for cutlery or chef's tools. The Thermador models with this start with DWHD650 or 651. The 650 comes in a panel-ready version; can't recall for 651. (I have a 651 sitting in garage waiting for install.)
KA has some 3rd rack models too, but why stray from Bosch/Thermador or Miele?

I left range hoods for last too. We settled on a Vent-A-Hood NPH9-236. Virtually every store recommended VAH to us.
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I just don't know enough about the full suite of products to know, off the top of my head, whether the package prices seem right. Having looked recently at ranges (too hard for too long, but finally ordered a 36" range), hoods, and (less intensively) for mw and dw, I'll agree that the total price tags seem really high. That may not be a defect in your dealer, however. A few general observations. First, the whole matching suite thing -- it seems entirely unnecessary to me to have matching labels on all the pieces to have them look good together; and it's highly unlikely to provide the best quality (piece-by-piece) or the best value-for-money (not on list price; and not on ability to spot a deal on an individual piece). In addition, premium brand EVERYTHING can really add up if you are going piece-by-piece throughout the whole kitchen. If the Wolf cooktop is your favorite, that's fine. What's the value add from their microwave drawer? From their warming drawer? Surely there's another way to integrate things visually. Second, a large built-in fridge is going to add a hand-full of thousands to any budget, relative to a large, high-quality stand-alone fridge (which can have a frame or cabinet around it, after-all -- it just won't be built in). That's not to say that you are wrong to want this. Just that it's an obvious place to save some real money if you want to save money. Without compromising the function of your kitchen. A full remodel is pricey. Cabinets alone can eat a huge chunk of change. Leaving that aside, maybe the thing to do is start over. Start with a list that includes all the pieces that you really want to use, but maybe leave off things that went on the initial list just 'cause. They can come back later, or not, depending on budget. Start with a full kitchen of good quality but more common appliances. For example, whatever finish or line you like from the CW top rated product in each category. Then, ask yourself which pieces you're (a) really anxious to change, because they're at the heart of what you love about a good kitchen and (b) interested in changing, but on lower priority. Start with the thing that makes the kitchen tick for you, whether it's a range or cook top or oven. A Wolf cook top (or BlueStar, or CC -- range top? -- or Thermador, or etc.) can be a FUNCTIONAL centerpiece that adds a couple of K to a basic offering, not 5 or 10. If you're really, really keen on the Miele double oven, that's fine, but it's a very pricey double oven setup. If it's just one of several you like that happens to fit into your suite of appliances, then maybe reconsider. What about a different brand? What about a range plus a second oven? For me, it's all about the range. For you -- you should get what you want, respecting your budget considerations. My guess is that if you start again, abandon the matching labels thing, and prioritize, you should be able to save 5-10K easily, and perhaps more.
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Quite a few of us here have the Elux ovens. I've had my single 30" Elux Icon going on 6 years now and it bakes great, the cobalt interior has held up well, Love the fully gliding out racks (3 of them on the Icon)the wavetouch controls--which are pretty "Intuitive to use. It has been trouble free, alto we rarely use the self clean as I don't feel like giving that much money to my electric company as they are "Scoundrels"--perhaps you read about the "Scandal in S Calif a few years ago---anyway not that big a deal for us to keep it clean "Manually". As I've posted many times, (and after doing extensive research on same) regardless of manufacturer, any single oven will be more reliable than a double oven (at least at this point in time). As far as a 2nd "Smaller oven, why not get the matching Elux speed oven that's what we did and we use it a lot!!! Also trouble free except for a loose screw on its handle. Far as Wolf goes, you aren't giving up anything regarding performance or reliability going with Elux instead. A "Dear Friend of mine here" has had her Wolf replaced due to interior chipping and the latest I heard was the new one is giving some kind of error msgs (which at least according to some posts here), seems to be "The nature of the Beast" alto I guess there is now a fix for it. Now does that mean every Wolf oven will have problems and every Elux won't? Of Course not, I'm just comparing my friend's and my experience with our ovens. Back around 2010 Elux did have some problems with thermal circult breaker trippping after self cleaning but that was an easy fix, as I recall, adding a washer under the thermal device. Anyway good luck on your pending decisions All of us here in GW are here to help you and most of us will "Tell it like it is/was! Gary
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I have to defend glass (ceram) top. I switched from coils with drip pans underneath to induction, and I love it. It isn't hard to clean, it's a breeze to clean. I did get new pots with flat bottoms. I love having new pots. The coils rocked and were noisy, and things spilled over and I could never get the drip pan clean (and I used burner bibs), and the crumbs under the knobs - ugh! I hated cleaning that thing. I adore my induction, which is always shiny with just a sponge followed by a wet paper towel, maybe a little cooktop cleaner. One difference between induction and radiant is that since induction doesn't get hot, spills don't cook on. I suppose that with a radiant top, EAM is right, and burned-on food would be hard to get off. But not as hard as those drip pans.
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philwojo
Original Author
12 years ago
Thanks for the feedback so far. I am not sure if the 1-2-free thing from Thermador would work for us as we are not looking at a cook top which I think has to be part of that, though I will admit I am not sure of that as we have looked at so many things over the past few weeks.

We are open on the DW and if we can get a deal to save us some money on stuff and still get some good quality stuff we are all for that.

I'll check out the Thermador web site more today to see if we can take advantage of anything.

Does anyone have any feedback on the Thermador vs Liebherr for fridge/freezer?

Also I totally understand 2 compressors on any 2 unit models. We just really liked the look and layout of the Liebherr models we got to see 1st hand. We also looked at the CS2062 (french door) and it was nice, but we did not like the way the doors worked on that unit. I'll have to bring my wife back again to check out Thermador if I like what I see online.

Thanks for the posts so far, hope to hear more.

Phil
deeageaux
12 years ago
I have a Liebherr All-Fridge and Gaggenau All-Freezer.

The Liebherr has nice bins and drawers but not the quality of Gaggenau-Thermador-Bosch(BSH) built-ins.The mechanicals on the Liebherr are as good and efficient as anything out there and better than most.

Doors on the BSH have a heavy or some might say luxurious feel. Liebherr has light weight doors or some might say cheap/or cheezy feeling. The bio-fresh safes work as well as anything out there.

Thermador DW are rebadged mid-upper end Bosch units. For the price you would think you got top-of-the-line Bosch units but,alas,you don't.

If getting the Miele I would get at least the Crystal because that has the built-in water softner.Unless of course you have really soft water in your area.

Both KA and Thermador have had electric oven trouble in the immediate past.Both claim issues have been resolved. Not too many buyers on this forum to confirm issues resolved. I would look at Electrolux wall ovens if looking at upper mid class or Wolf/Gaggenau if looking at top end. The Wolf /Gaggenau microwaves are seperate units but you could just buy the Sharp microwave drawer and place it underneath the wall oven and save some money.

Definetly take Bluestar cooktop/rangetop over Thermador/Wolf.
philwojo
Original Author
12 years ago
Deeageaux, thanks for the feedback, that is exactly what I was looking for. I know it all comes down to us and what we like, but I value all the posts on this forum they are a wealth of real world knowledge, not just fancy PR stuff in a book or by a salesman (at least in most cases).

Help/Feedback on Appliance Choices for a kitchem remodel

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