weekendwarrior-- I'm just now seeing your post, and this one's going to take some time, so I'm basically just bumping it up to the top of the list so I don't lose it when I come in here tomorrow (spent most of tonight putting software back on my computer after getting it back from a major crash)

We dry layed the tile and found out that the front facing wall of the tub deck is not plumb, it bows in on the left side. The space between the tile edge and the deck wall progressively widens from right to left...from flush to about about 1 inch. How do we best resolve this? The entire floor has been dry layed and there are no other issues.

The tub faces the vanity, do relay all the tiles so that the square tiles are against the tub deck wall and hide the imperfection under the vanity? Or is there some other solution?

It took me a while to understand what you were talking about! Leave it laid out just the way it is, but recut the tiles to the tub deck, with each piece being cut on a slight angle to keep the cut edge parallel to your tub deck. That's no big deal, and in fact it's about usual.

How do I finish the outside edge of the shower? The shower head wall is built out about 2.5 inches from the bathroom wall. The guy tiled to the edge of the hardibacker and left the rough edge of the tile exposed. I planned on drilling 1/4 inch hardibacker on the perpendicular drywall wall (there's a stud there) and finish with bullnose over the 12x12 tile on the shower wall. Is there a better way can you install CBU over drywall?

In your picture SDC10350, it looks like you've already got hardi board there. But even if it's sheetrock, being that it's outside the shower, there's no reason you can't tile right over it.

Thanks Bill,

It continues....I also noticed that "the guy" put the hardibacker down without thinset and screwed some of the CBU down into the floor joints when we complained about creaking. I've read enough to know now that this is incorrect. Is that a do-over? As you saw from the photos, we are at a point where we can re-install. Can you use the same boards? We plan to use heating under the tile.

Dennis

I also noticed that "the guy" put the hardibacker down without thinset and screwed some of the CBU down into the floor joints when we complained about creaking. I've read enough to know now that this is incorrect. Is that a do-over?

It most certainly is, and yes, you can use the same panels over again. You can even unscrew, lift, thinset, and replace them one at a time to ensure they go right back into place.

Okay, I got the CBU up and won't be able to resuse some of it. The birch luan from the previous vinyl flooring was fastened with a million staples so it was a challenge cleaning that up. I did notice a floor squeak between the toilet and shower. It appears to be between the joists as I've driven several screws into the floor joists on both sides to no avail. Do I need to rip up the ceiling downstairs to fix the sqeak or will the thinset and CBU take care of it?

Secondly, I was ready to thinset the CBU and I read something about the water in the thinset absorbing into the subfloor and causing problems. Have you heard of using a urethane sealer on the subfloor?

WHOA, wait a second! You have a 1/4" underlayment in there? ANY 1/4" underlayment in the subfloor underneath tile (except cement board) is bad, but luan is a tile killer for sure. That needs to come out.

Bill,

Let me clarify...I removed the 1/4" luan completely during demo. It was the staples I was complaining about. We are down to the 5/8" OSB and want to know if we need to prime or waterproof the OSB before laying the thinset and 1/2" CBU. Any wisdom you can share on the floor squeaks would be greatly appreciated as well.

Okay-- my misunderstanding.

First, all that should be needed is to drive a few 1 1/2- 2" screws into the joists thru the OSB wherever you're getting the squeaks. Secondly, no, there's no need to prime the OSB prior to thinsetting down the cement board. You're not trying to bond the thinset to it (good thing, too, cuz it won't happen!). You're only using the thinset as a "bedding" for the cement board, so you don't get any vibration between the two layers. The screws are what will actually fasten one layer to the other.

One other thing I have to say here-- You'll be right at the bare minimum for subsurface, with the 5/8" OSB and 1/2" cement board. Any chance you can do another layer of either 1/2" or 3/8" plywood before the cement board, and then do 1/4" cement board, if that would help? I know it's not my installation, but I'd feel a whole lot more comfortable with it, if it's possible.

I've driven a bunch of screws and still get the squeaking on either side of the joints. From the looks of the circular saw marks on the floor, the area was worked by previous owners obviously to no avail.

Yes, I can lay another layer of 1/2" plywood but that with the 1/4 inch CBU and tile raises the level of my floor a bit. The half inch plywood will just fit under the gap between the lower row of tile on the tub deck and the subfloor but everything else will be butted up against the tub deck. I'll tell ya...we plan to rent this house out and may just punt and put down some resilient flooring on the 1/2" plywood. Will let you know.

After all of this, how do we adjust the toilet with the added floor layers?

BTW, thanks for monitoring...Wifey and I surely appreciate it.

Well, one other thing you can do to lower the thickness of your floor, and yet, still improve it would be to get rid of the thought of cement board all together, and use Schluter Ditra in its place. Ditra's only 1/8" thick, so you're dropping the elevation by another 1/8" (you won't be that much higher than if you'd just gone with the 1/2" cement board over the subfloor), and whereas cement board is nothing more than a better bonding surface, the Ditra will actually protect the tile from structural movement.

As for the toilet, you could either use an oversized wax ring, or even have a plumber come out and raise the flange.

Sounds like a plan. Can you use heat mats with Ditra?

Sure can.

Bill,

We are plugging away. I am puzzle piecing the 1/2" plywood onto the existing subfloor. Lowes has the Ditra mat and we are going to install this week. I will let you know how this goes.

I'll be here. :-)

Did I read your recent post correctly about installing floor heat mat UNDER the Ditra mats? Does it matter?

Far as I'm concerned, it doesn't matter, but I guess Schluter says to put them underneath.

Actually, I just went back to the thread you're talking about, and with that type of heating system there really isn't a choice. Warm Tiles isn't a system that uses mats. It's a wire that gets looped back and forth between plastic clips that get screwed in or glued to the subfloor, so it HAS to go under the Ditra.

Bill, I layed the 1/2" and bought the ditra...now I am looking for the elusive unmodified thin-set that Ditra calls for. I live in Northern VA and when I go to HD or Lowes and even The Tile Shop and ask about such thin-sets, first I get a blank stare and then I they tell me they've never worked with Ditra etc. Anyway, I have Laticrete Multipurpose Thinset Mortar. Lowes only has Mapei products now and they didn't have an unmodified thinset called Kerabond. I want to use the Laticrete Multipurpose (just add water) between the Ditra, heating mat and subfloor and whatever qualifies as unmodified between the tile and the mat. What is unmodified adhesive, what are the well known brands and where can I buy it?

Go to The Tile Shop and ask for Mapei Kerabond or Laticrete 317. In addition, ask them for the additive that goes with them (333 for Laticrete and Keralastic for the Kerabond), and then you can use the same thinset above and below the Ditra. Below you mix it with the additive, and above you mix it with water.

Bill, the Tile Shop here only carries their house brand "Superior Pro-Lastic".

http://www.tileshop.com/tools_supplies/index.aspx

Lowe's stop carrying Laticrete for Mapei and carry every other brand but Kerabond. Can you recommend another brand or adhesive? HD here carries Custom brand thinsets. If the difference is just whether to add the Part B or not can any decent mortar be a suitable sub?

No. If they're already modified you can't mix them with additives. As for the Kerabond, if they carry Mapei, they can get the kerabond for you.

We are all set. The guys at Morris Tile in VA had everything. Should have went there when I started this project! Floor goes down tomorrow!

Bill,

We waited to finish the tile in the shower before doing the floor and ran into a problem. We had one row left of 12 by 12 to install on the shower wall. We dry laid the tile from the right corner along the back wall and worked left to the tub deck. We discovered that the distance between the top of the shower pan and last row of tile is taller than the corner on the right. In other words, the tile on the far right in the corner fits perfect but the tiles on the left leave a 1/2 in or more gap between the bottom of the tile to the shower pan. I don't think I can caulk a gap that wide. For appearance purposes, we plan to lay 4 x 12 inch pieces along the bottom aligned vertically with the installed tile on the shower pan and fill the space with cut 12 by 12s also aligned to hide the difference. The alternative would be a large grout line or a significant gap at the shower tray surface. Do you have any suggestions? The picture linked below may help you visualize what I am dealing with. Realize that there is backerboard (taped, thin-set and waterguarded) there now on all sides. Thanks for your time.

Here is a link that might be useful: Facing the masterbath shower with tub deck on left

What I would do is one of two things. Either you can put some kind of listello and then the cut piece (but I think that might look a little screwed up, running a listello that close to the bottom of the wall), or you can use two cut pieces at the bottom of the wall all the way around the shower. use a half tile, and then cut in the difference for the bottom piece. If anyone asks, it's a design element!! :-)

Yeah, that's it! That's the ticket!! :-)

Bill,

We split the tile on tub deck side and back wall. The right wall was so badly bowed we had major lippage with the half pieces, so we went with a whole time for appearance purposes. I linked some pictures. Note the ditra :o)

About the floor, we layed the ditra down but I need to know what we should put around the perimeter of the floor. We planned on just putting base board and quarter round with caulk but I've seen video for "rondex" and other few very complex edge solutions. What do you recommend as a low cost solution?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31784269@N05/3565509739/in/set-72157616392518275/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/31784269@N05/3565509695/in/set-72157616392518275/

Here is a link that might be useful: facing shower bottom tile

Go with the wood baseboard. That'll give you a half inch to play with along the edges of the room so the cuts wouldn't have to be as accurate, and it would still look good afterward. It'd also be a cleaner look, as well, installing the baseboard on top of the tile. Then you wouldn't need the 1/4 round, either.

D-oh! The baseboard was never removed. I layed the Ditra down butting up against it. I meant that I would lay the tile within a half inch and finish the perimeter with quarter round. Should I have removed the baseboards and put the Ditra down closer to the drywall?

It would've made for a cleaner looking installation, but that's okay. Quite frankly, if it were me, I'd keep a nice even uniform joint all the way around, caulk it into the baseboard, and still forget about the 1/4 round (never did much care for it), but that's personal taste.

We are finished tiling and began grouting today. I am using un-sanded Mapei Keracolor U grout with Polymer per the schluter schematic but I found out that unsanded is for grout widths of up to 1/8 inch...we are using 1/4 inch lines. Thus far I have only covered the horizontal and vertical tiles of the tub deck but no real wet areas yet. Do I need to get the sanded stuff? Is a redo in my weekend plans? Thanks.

Here is a link that might be useful: Updated flickr pics of grout work.

You really should use the sanded grout. How you got those joints that full using unsanded grout without cracking or shrinking is beyond me, unless you grouted it multiple times!

The grout actually went in pretty easily and I was quite proud of myself....for a few minutes at least. I will chip out the large grout, pick-up some Keracolor S and use the un-sanded on the mosaic. We are in the final stretch. I will be asking you about carpet to tile transitions soon.

Anybody know of a tool that can bust out unsanded grout? I am recovering from an epic fail and need to reinstall sanded grout in the master bath.

There are diamond bits for dremel-type tools. I've only had to R&R grout once, that was years ago, and that's what I used.

The bit I use looked like a smooth drill bit covered with diamonds. Maybe $10 each, I use 3 of them.

I ran the dremel down the grout lines holding it at a 30-45 degree angle. I ran the bit down one edge of the grout line, then the other side.

You don't need to get the joints spanking clean, but do be careful you don't nick up and roughen the edges of the tiles or (egad) run the bit across the face of the glazing.

It's very very dusty work. Very dusty.

The sooner you get on it the better due to cure strength timelines of cementitious products.

The bits I used looked somewhat like this "7122" bit. It doesn't look like the exact bit I used, but it's pretty close.

I caught this link too, dremel has an attachment kit and bit for grout removal. Their "569" bit is carbide instead of diamond.

And this video.

They have a few other tools as well.

Good luck!

Mongo

Thanks Mongo,

I actually found a dremel bit that worked really well. I found the sanded grout and caulk and finished the bathroom.
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Break-Break
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Bill/Mongo,

Now I need to seal the grout joints. I went to Lowe's and they only have Tile-Guard brand liquid and liquid spray products. What is best water based or non-water based for the shower, tub deck and shower?

I linked the pictures below. The only difference is that there is a clear glass shower enclosure installed now.

Thanks for all of the great guidance on here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Master Bath Pics

If you go to John Bridge's website, you can buy Stone Tech products through his on line store, if there are no tile showrooms in your area. Look for the Impregnator Pro.

Here is a link that might be useful: JB's online store