Starting from dirt- literally! A basement bath DIY Adventure
Warning this is long and wordy, but if you're patient, I could really use advice/ideas/offers of valium.
Hi there! I'm Hunzi.
Yes, it's me again. I know you don't remember me, because I've been sporadically reading and planning this project for about a decade now, but it's finally going to happen!
So here's what I have. Dirt. No, really...we started with an amazing space in the corner of an unfinished basement in an 1884 farmhouse. A previous owner had installed a "shower" consisting of a raised wooden pallet type platform floor, corrugated plastic walls, and a shower fixture plumbed with garden hose from what I think were old laundry hookups. This fabulous assembly was to supplement a main floor "full bath" which had a toilet/sink/tub, but was installed with near equal quality - yes, that's really an electrical wire cutting externally across the corner of the tub! Yikes. We just lovingly call any poorly done DIY job in the house a "Mr. G--- job".
So we've spent the past 20 years, fixing up all the Mr.G jobs, and while we are also 99.9% DIY, we're card carrying complete obsessed over-engineer it types.
That amazing shower was removed post haste (one of these days I'll check to see if I took a photo), and we have made due all these years with the shower in the claw foot tub on the 2nd floor (obviously installed by pros back in the 1920's before MrG got his hands on the house), while the plans for the basement have slowly bubbled and evolved. What was originally going to be a play room for the kids (DS was only 3 when we bought the place, DD was not yet a twinkle in her daddy's eye), last year finally became a bonus room for the now DS/Grad Student to live in until he can afford his own place then its future lies in either ManCave or home gym.
Somewhere along the way, that corner with the shower evolved from really scary home to spiders to maybe we can use it as a laundry room/bath combo, to you know, we really do need a 2nd full bath in this house, since I want to remove the other (main floor) Mr.G Special Bathroom and use that space for a kitchen reno and just tuck a powder room into an old pantry.
Back to the dirt. Apparently the basement was originally non-existant. Previous home owners dug it out in stages, first to make room for a boiler and coal room added in 1925, then the rest was dug out later we suspect. Not a bad amount of space, properly dug with respect to foundations. But it must have been a dirt floor for quite a while until someone (I'm still blaming MrG (bless his heart)) poured a concrete floor - not just any old concrete floor, a "just cover the dirt - no worries about making it level or making sure there's enough thickness" concrete floor. Level wasn't in his vocabulary.
So about the time, DH decided to remove the fabulous fishing camp shower, he decided he'd remove the concrete covering the section of the floor that would become the future bathroom, because he'd have to tie into the sewer stack in several locations and gosh darn it, once he started and found the concrete varried in depth from 1.5 to 4 inches, it all had to go.
You do realize, there were years - YEARS between DH tearing out the concrete and now, don't you? I've lived with a 9x10 patch of dirt in the corner of my wavy concrete basement for at least 10yrs, maybe longer - I'm trying to black it all out.
Problems -no time, no money, more no time, more no money, trivial stuff like military service demands getting in the way etc. So, I'll cut him some slack.
Still, when DS needed to return home - finally the fire of FIX the BASEMENT was lit (to DH's credit, many other projects in the house were done in the intermediate years and the basement was always a low priority). It didn't hurt that DS couldn't just move back into his old room because it is now being occupied by our 2 adorable teen aged Chinese exchange students (16 & 17 yr old girls) who moved in this fall and will live with us this year and next while they finish high school. DD is a freshman in college this year, but home frequently and wouldn't have let her brother borrow her room anyway! So the basement became priority one finally.
Finished off a living space for DS, and finalized plans for a bathroom and laundry room (now separate).
Ok, that's the backstory.
Now back to the dirt yet again. - DH is preparing to make all the stack modifications and plumbing rough-ins this weekend. (Everyone light a candle and say a prayer for us!) This will rough in the plumbing for the basement bath, the main floor powder room (goodbye MrG 1950s Bathroom From Hell) and laundry room.
Next up will be pouring a new slab in the dirt space - no, really, this one will be properly thick and level.
However, now there's stuff I need to be sure of - before Dh decides to order concrete.
Since DH didn't tear out the entire basement floor (we now all say Thank You Baby Jesus!) he wants to meet up with the existing concrete level (yes, we know it's not actually LEVEL, but the laundry room section of the basement is within "You Can Fix It with SLC" range vs OMG, they dropped the part around their "floor drain" (aka the fishing camp shower drain as well - don't get me started) nearly a foot (a very wavy foot).
So QUESTION #1:
Since we can set the level of the concrete slab whereever we want (within reason), I need to know how much I need to allow for the stuff that goes over the concrete slab - the thin set, Detra/some decoupler, more thin set, plus a 1 inch hex type tile - so that I can meet up with the laundry room floor which will have SLC, plus same tile (and all required under-prep).
I'm also working with a minimal ceiling height of 7ft (remember it wasn't planned to be living space when they dug it out), so I can't get crazy and not worry about the amount of space that gets leftover between finished floor and finished ceiling.
How thick is all the usual tile on cement stuff? Assume a small hex type tile of the Home Depot variety.
I just need to know if I need to tell DH to be sure to set the top of the slab X.0 or 0.x inches below where we want the final finished floor.
Once all this OMG I HATE PLUMBING drama is over, we can discuss all the more fun parts - details on tile, all the 1000's of other things you'll realize I haven't thought about.
Goal is a not overly expensive but nice looking full bathroom - we'll reuse the toilet and tub from the MrG Main Floor Special - might upgrade the toilet eventually, but pretty sure the tub/shower combo (basic steel tub, nice shape/size/depth) is staying.
Powder room is sort of intermixed into this project, but not completely because darn-it, I need to gut the kitchen to get the PR door in the right place but at least the toilet will be roughed in to the right location and the weird combo of MrG's Main Floor Special Bath/my kitchen pantry (another story for another day), will no longer exist. And that will be Phase 2, after the basement bath and laundry project is done.
So, how thick is the tile stuff, and we'll need to chat about radiant floor heat vs something like WhisperWarm or heat lamps. (This bath will get light/moderate use once DS moves on, and there's no direct heat source in the basement - it's relatively warm & dry due to the very large, very old cast iron boiler which radiates much heat, but now that's closed off in a utility room and there are several walls between it and the bathroom - so it's cooler, but not uncomfortable in there, and I'm not noticing it feeling damp (even with the still dirt floor), but I want to be sure there aren't any issues.
Eventual look and feel of this bathroom is 1920s/Art Deco classic - not over the top, but a nod to the past. Hex tile floor, possibly unglazed, also running into laundry room, black & white color scheme - subway tiled bath, pedistal sink. Simple but we all know simple is never simple to create!
So, hopefully someone made it to the bottom of this - or you'll all just click NEXT everytime you see my name. ;-)
I've read a lot here over the years, admired many bathrooms, mostly in silent awe.
Hang in there, I'll reuse this thread for the whole basement bath adventure, which knowing us, could take the next year or two! ;-)
Here we go.
Always ;-)
Hunzi
Photo of some of MrG's fine work (Located in the 1950'sBathroomFromHell). Yes, that's really a live wire.
This post was edited by hunzi on Wed, Mar 5, 14 at 11:34
Comments (157)
lotteryticket
10 years agolast modified: 9 years agohunzi
10 years agolast modified: 9 years agoRelated Discussions
Starting from dirt- literally! A basement bath DIY Adventure pt2
Comments (178)Not really bathroom related, but yet another tale for those who love stories about MrG - we are in the process of finishing off the rest of the useable basement (all of it minus the utility) and MrG has reared his ugly head yet again - remember wayyyyy back at the beginning of this adventure when I talked about the wavy concrete floor - OMG. So the rest of the basement is going to be loads of fun. It's out of level over an inch in quick checks - problem being it's too high in those spots - compared to where we will meet at the doorway (now beautifully tiled) to the laundry room. No, I will not let Mr.Hunzi break out and replace the concrete - we all know how that turned out last time, the end result may have been lovely, but the 10yr wait and the 3yr process is just too much for a second round of that sort of fun. ;-) And the future flooring is lovely, not inexpensive heart pine - unless I have to find an alternative to accommodate the Ghost of MrG. For lottery ticket and enduring and nancy who kept me company through the whole saga of bathroom and dirt before - come over and offer your wisdom at the home decorating forum - which is where I thought might fit best for the Studio Pink Babe Cave Adventure!...See MoreHouse hunting: always an adventure....
Comments (29)When house hunting, I never cared about personal decor. I'd rather see some personal decor than everything abandoned and just empty rooms! The saddest one though, was a house on an awesome two acres in a perfect location, where the 90+ year old woman had passed away with no relatives to claim her things. The rooms were stashed with photos and photos and momentos, all of which would come with the house -- since there were no relatives to claim them. I ended up passing on this house (although I cried about it, thinking about that poor lonely woman in such a lovely setting) because the kitchen dated to 1940 on a good day, and because the basement was floored with dirt, and because the 1790-era house had many doorways that only reached 5 and a half feet in height. Running in a rush would have risked decapitation! I didn't have money for those sorts of renovations. I don't know what I would have done with all that stuff - consignment shop for most of it - but it wasn't the personality of the place that did it in for me, but the extreme renovations that would have been needed. In other words, if I see someone else's personality in a space, I'm more able to envision my own there, too. If it is sterile, I can't imagine things. I hate sterile. (Just, preferably, take your stuff with you, if remotely possible, when you do sell it. She couldn't, and if the other factors hadn't been in the way, I'd have found a way to deal with it.)...See MoreThe Starting from Dirt (sort of) Laundry Room Adventure!
Comments (38)Ok, so to be clear - for a pair of major laundry minimalists (especially MrHunzi!) In our house, we have LG front loader http://www.lg.com/us/washers/lg-WM3575CV-turbowash-washer - it has a steam injection option, and "Cold-Extra Hot" temps but doesn't make it clear what those temps really are (one big thing I miss about my little ASCO - it had a 205' wash) - my HWH is set to about 140) We are mainly down to just the two of us and the German Shepherd. DS visits and does his own laundry on extended stays, and sometimes we have exchange students who will run a load or two a week for themselves. There are usually 3 load categories: Darks/Colors (together) Normal/Cotton cycle, Kirkland detergent & fabric softener (everything not "Whites/Bleach" and Towels) Whites (things that can be bleached), Bright White cycle - Kirkland detergent, Chlorine bleach, & fabric softener Sheets, kitchen towels, MrHunzi's socks, and the MK face cloths all go into the bleach loads. He does like BLINDING WHITE results. Towels - all the big fluffy ones from Costco, in sand and grey colors (washed on the Towel cycle (I think it's Warm or Cold/cold rinse). When needed, I'll separately wash a dress or sweater that requires more special attention (not trusted to MrHunzi's care) in a cold or delicate or wool cycle. So if I understand your suggestions: Cheer Powder for the dark load. They get done on the Normal/Cotton Warm/cold rinse setting. US Persil Pearls or German Persil Universal Powder for whites. (Add chlorine bleach? Add Oxi?) They get done on the Bright Whites Hot/cold rinse setting (unless I do them - then they get the Extra Hot Sanitary cycle (longer)/cold rinse and added OXI to the pre/main wash detergents plus Chlorine bleach.) Does my washer get hot enough for powders to do the job? Towels get treated same as Colors - Kirkland & FS, except for the different machine cycle. Everything usually gets liquid fabric softener (kirkland's or downy) (unless I'm running a dedicated MK face cloth load - then none) Delicates - only thing I use a liquid for - either Woolite, Woolite dark, Perwol, I think I had some sort of Perwol dark. And they usually get FS. - no dryer sheets - I'm allergic to something in them - sneeze my head off. What's the story with the STTP stuff? When? Why? How? My water - filtered, softened. No charcoal filter on the system, so probably still has the chloramine from the treatment plant. We operate on KISS! Keep it simple systems! Of course, it will probably be a year before I run through the giant tub of Kirkland's! so this isn't a fast change of systems....See MoreDecorating the Babe Cave - Hunzi's Studio Pink Home Office & Studio
Comments (163)Late night ramblings: Oh, good grief! Did I never show you the 95.5% finished work? Yes, you know it's not 100%! MrHunzi still hasn't put in the counter and the sink for the coffee bar. He has a good excuse, by the time we were ready to do it, the stupid virus was upon us and we couldn't invite his work buddy over to help, and then the next shiny object took over... the BIG RENO - The BIG RENO is all the super necessary and completely unsexy stuff we've put off doing for a decade or two or three. So far, we have spent 3 yrs sucking all the 100yr old insulation out of the attic, spray foaming the roof deck, upgrading the electrical panel, burying the service lines, trenched and burying the roof runoff system, fixing a bit of masonry, cleaning up a few thousand feet of wiring, installing a 1100sqft of plywood flooring in the attic during the height of the pandemic (I could have floored it in gold bullion and had it be cheaper), putting in a pulldown sliding attic staircase, tearing out a few tons of lath and plaster (3.25tons to be precise) from the upper and lower halls, cleaning and adding meeting rail locks/latches to 16 huge double-hung windows and installing interior storm windows to tighten up the envelope, and pouring a concrete utility pad for the reason we've been doing all this work - getting HVAC installed in this 140yr Shrine To Our Lady of Perpetual Renovation! (cue angelic singing). Yes folks, in a few weeks' time, the window air units will be no more! (Well, except for the converted side porch office, that's a whole other problem for another time.) And we're getting a whole house generator to boot, because, go big or go home. Anyway, I promise as soon as all the piles of stuff that have nowhere to go right now are gone, I'll take some lovely photos and show y'all the BabeCave. I'm about to reopen it to clients after all the hot mess of 2020/2021 is done. (I am about to have a breakdown over this part of the reno- the absolute CHAOS of everything everywhere. This is the part that breaks a lot of DIYers, and I know we'll get through it, but it's tempting to say eff it and start over with something that's "turn-key". With all the other projects we've done, 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, LR, DR, Library, they have been easy to compartmentalize and keep the mess to that location. Y'all! There is no part of the house that isn't getting touched and there is no refuge from piles of tools, stuff that has been moved out of the way for something and has nowhere to go, oh and there are literally 17 giant bales of insulation stacked in my dining room and it's 2 weeks till Thanksgiving. No turkeys will be sacrificing their lives for us this year! Oh, only 5 of those bales have immediate use after the ducts go in, 4 more are holding for when we do the bathroom because MrHunzi is worried we might damage them somehow when demoing that ceiling if we put them up now, and the rest...there was somehow a mad rounding-up error on how much was required, so yay, I'm going to have the privilege of dragging them down into the basement, putting it up in the boiler room ceiling, and crawling up into the 2ft high crawlspace ledges and scootching around on my back to insulating them with Rockwool, because waste not, want not, and I have 8 bales to spare.) It's all good - the goal in this house is always to stuff every possible accessible space with Rockwool because fire is the one thing that is super scary in an old house like this - if you've ever tossed a stick of lath into a fire and watched it go WOOSH and contemplated, my whole house is made of that stuff, you too would be willing to backcrawl in dirty, dead mouse filled crawlspace ledges with the goal of not making your house fireproof, but to at least buying you an extra minute or two to make it out. And this is the one time that MrHunzi gets off easy - he can't work in quarters that tight, and while I'm no skinny mini, I can, so yay for that. But I know it will get better. As soon as the ductwork (and insulation for the hall) is installed, I'm planning to call in my fabulous assistant and we are going to organize and PURGE like mad, then I'm going to call in the Stanley steamer guys to clean every floor in the house, and beg my housekeeper to come back to work. I'd really like to do it now before the contractors descend on us right after T-Day because I'm actually horrified to ask anyone to come work in this house in this condition - I'm not sure they won't think we're hoarders. Isn't there a DIY show on TV like this right now? Where the DIY got out of control and the homeowners are a full hot mess and need to be rescued? I feel like someone could nominate us for that show. We are currently the poster children of why not to live in the renovation. Contractors will take photos to scare their future clients out of ever attempting DIY with tales of our woe. Oh and for extra fun, Thanksgiving weekend, the Mini-Mes are coming to stay with Nana for several weeks, because it's not chaotic enough without throwing two small children, 4yr (girl) & 8mon (boy), into the mix between Thanksgiving and Christmas. I think I was fine until I realized there will be a point while the HVAC guys (arriving Monday after thanksgiving) are working here for 2 weeks where I will need to remove ALL THE FURNITURE from the nursery and ROLL UP THE CARPET, so we can put the ductwork in for the DR below, while I have infants/preschoolers who need to sleep in that room because the other guest room is 6ft deep in all the crap from every other place and will have the nursery room furniture piled in there to boot. Everyone be sure to say your prayers and light your candles to Our Lady of Perpetual Renovation for us. We're going to need them! ;-) Once the HVAC is done, a brief interlude for celebrating Christmas, and the purge and cleaning have commenced, it's drywall, paint, add more fancy applied moldings on a huge staircase wall, and we'll pour a concrete driveway big enough to land a 747 (well, maybe not quite that big but at least a 7/11 parking lot) and that will probably mushroom into more landscaping. And then maybe by this time next year, we can declare victory. For five minutes at least. And then, we'll see if there's anything left in the tank to work on that truly evil old converted porch/office reno - that thing is going to mushroom like a nuclear cloud. And then there will only be some minor drywalling, install a window and pocket doors for the dining room, the 2nd-floor bath (only bathroom on the 2nd floor shared by 3 bedrooms so making it master-bath nice is the plan), and the kitchen to do, you know, nothing major.... But I promise - photos soon....See More
enduring
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10 years agolast modified: 9 years agoBehold:The awesomeness that is wet concrete!
Snort.
Hunzi
finally synced her phone
hunzi
10 years agolast modified: 9 years agoOh and since LotteryTicket mentioned the Slightly Imperfect Powder Room, I thought I'd finally take a photo of the sconces in their much improved position! No longer wonky, off center and too low! The tops of the sconces used to be about 2/3 the way up the mirror, now they are even with the top.
DH moved them up and centered them when he was finishing the wall behind.
Now, other than the lack of a door (there is a door still on the former 1950s Bathroom From Hell which serves as an anteroom - so it's not lacking privacy) it's Practically Perfect In Every Way.
hunzi
10 years agolast modified: 9 years agoOne last photo of the SIPR! Here's my hidden storage cabinet! It has taken quite a bit of work to make that door work properly!
enduring
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10 years agolast modified: 9 years agoSneak peek at the layout! ;-) It's cozier than it looks before framing, but it's functional! And way better than dirt!
Tub on the back wall, sink on right, floor drain rough in & toilet rough in. I didn't mark in the doorway. From the line of the tub to the wall between the laundry is 45 inches.
Always ;-)
Hunzi
DreamingoftheUP
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10 years agolast modified: 9 years agoyes, I did! And I have both pinned your photos and the info to my Pinterest board for that bathroom!
150 post limit? How cruel. Don't they know some of us have projects that last for eons? ;-)
I'll try to make this one count - a photo of a flat floor!
hunzi
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Hunzi
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lotteryticket