Hello all How nice to have advice, I tell ya, My kids are grown, and I am really rusty at this stuff. I have got so much comfort from this help. To Sweeby, I can't get away with nothin, lol very observant of you. Thank you for the time you have taken here. And, I am starting to believe that, yes there is something a bit off, when a child is told the permission has to be recieved for the computer, but only for supervision, not to say no, and 5 minutes later, she sneaks again, and we have another talk, and the next 5 days are all the same. That is just amazing. The places she goes are all pg healthy disney type sites, so that's not the incentive. I have to say I am wondering if just being defiant isn't the jolly she is looking for. And if you look at just this disobediance, and not the rest maybe its normal, but I would have never pushed an adult several times a day, day after day, and it's important to point out, I am NOT a comfortable auntie she has known all her life, I am a new person in her life. That concerns me because of the problems she will have if she is like this with teachers and other parents. And it appears she is. So I think , like you probably do,Two or three talks is alot, but maybe normal. This was was 9 or 10, To put me in a place to do that, must have been some of the power she was after, I just don't know, but It will never happen again. Trying not to rock the boat, left my about to sink the ship i think. Don't laugh, but I honestly believe she purposely didn't let the dog out so I would have to clean the carpet from urine for a week back in the beginning.. She was sitting 3 feet from the door, where her dog peed, and it was the third time that morning, So I reminded her every half hour. I didnt make the lunch she requested, and she was a bit peeved about it. I had told her mother I felt she should clean these oversites, because we have all been clear she is responsible for letting her dog out. But mamma quickly said no, she would clean it when she got home from work. I knew right then, I may be heading for a real power trip. Plus, I believe she got this fairy tale notion, that at my house, she would be a princess, with control of the days, and that I would not be like another adult/parent figure. From what I have read, 10 year olds didnt know they didn't necessarily have to mind, just a few months ago, and so defying is a bit of an experiment, that we have to endure till they get sick of consequences, they may pay a price, but they need to learn it the hard way, just in case you are not going to follow thru, so I imagine, when I was telling her to pick up her shoes, close the door, no wet towels on the rug please, she was disappointed. And a bit angry too. Just when she is an age where she is finding adult commands tiring, she gets another bossy adult to deal with. Of course, thats just too bad, but I do think this has a hand in her difficult moods. And no, she is not a monster. No one thinks that here I am sure, I certainly don't either. But she has learned manipulation, and she has come to rely on it too heavily. I have talked to her mother, she tries to get her way with me by implying her mom cant do anything for her because she works all the time. With her her mother it's that I am not attentive and wont do any thing with her, sorta the same. So the next time she is working one of us against the other,to get what she wants, (and yes it is normal, but it is running rampant in this house) Mom and are are casually are going to talk to each other right then, in front of her. There will be no fireworks, just state what was said, and then of course deny there is any truth to it, she will see the consequence. We will go on about our day, not punishing for he lie, for the time being, and I hope; in time, she will stop, because it just doesnt work. Sounds reasonable to me, and watch next week Ill be writting how I screwed that up too lol Your advice to be firm but always kind opened my eyes, I was not being firm often enough, she was so tough, and I had told her so many time, that by then time I got firm, being kind was beyond me. I tried not to look mad, but I was mad and that always shows. Seek, I do not by any stretch think this little girl is a phychopath. I think that she was in a place in her world, where at some point this manipulation was all that worked for her. I think things are better now, but she has made such good use of it she doesnt see any reason to give it up. But she spends so much effort and energy at it, she isnt thriving in any other areas, She has too much to keep straight, and too many people to keep from talking to one another. Her school performance last year was pathetic, with f's even. It's not easy to get an f in the 4th grade. I think that this is just something kids all have to learn, but she has had too few adults in her life to have it backfire before BUT, I am grateful to have you say she sounds normal, You have no idea. I dont have a clue either way to be honest, but it give me hope. And it lets me see, that maybe I am too concerned about a few things, I have let go of a little because of your words. I pick up shoes and various other things as often as I tell her to do it, that was a battle I didnt need. So thanks. Because it has been good for us, LINDAC: You are right on the money, with this thank you thing. I have noticed her mother isnt' setting the world on fire with this social grace either, but there's a twist I cant ignore, mom is deaf in one ear, and I think this has played a role, I have repeated myself to her, and when she hears me, she is graciously appreciative, most of the time. But I have realized that when I thought she heard me and choose to say nothing when a thank you was the standard response, she in fact did not. I have watched her with my son, and i c its something to take into consideration, and it makes me all the more determined because I see that it wasnt modeled for fair reason, and so Ill do it now. And Please Know that your compliment on my parenting, was surprisingly emotional, and extremely comforting. So much so, that my eyes welled up and I had realize that failing at this is part of my frustration. Which is not productive at all. I have to accept this is part of the angst too, I feel like I am failing to get along with a ten year old, and it feels crappy, so doing the normal parenting, "what do you say" has not come automatically, I didnt see that until I read your post, and I am grateful. So confidently and relentlessly, I am going to irritate the hell out of her the way I did my own boys. thank you! BEENTHERE I have actually done what you suggest, and I suspect someone has beat me to this technique, and wore it out, she considers any talking, no matter how hard I try to make it light and easy, as a lecture, and gets snotty for the rest of the day, tho this worked well on my boys, its like blowing in an ashtray with her. Even the praise, she sees right thru. I have had it work, if it was praise for something I had not corrected her on, shes a tough cookie. But she is improving here this last week, and I am hopeful it may be a real change for us all. thanks for the help. To the rest of you, speaking of rules, Ya caught me. It's amazing the way you all nailed me on so much. I have been a wuss about house rules, big time, and I knew it. Seeing it in print made me furious with myself, but thank you. It is my responsibility to state my rules, to keep trouble from popping up, and I was an idiot for being reluctant. I wonder if I can buy a set of balls on ebay, I need some. lol To all of you, I can't seem to make my point with out writting a book the size of "gone with the wind." I actually edit and cut things down, tho I know that is hard to believe. I am sorry. You all have taken so much time and careful consideration,to evaluate my situation,and advise me, because you obviously care to give helpful advice, (and probably because I need it so badly he he) and I am just impressed, surprised, thankful, and most importantly to you, I bet, I have more self confidence in my handling her, and feel sure that my choices are fair, and respect us both. And I am not blowing smoke, Honestly, every post here helped me in ways that I could see happening , and that's big stuff. I really lost it for a while there. I am embarrassed to admit I was downright depressed and hated getting up to face another day. I had no idea what to do. Having someone to vent to and get my head straight was a god send. I had to thank you all. My next post is going to be something like what's your favorite cookie to make with the kids, or what word do you have for Fart or penis. lol I wont be near as needy to get the answers so the thanks i give will be short and sweet i promisel And penis was dinkerdink at our house, In fact I am afraid that became a word in our family's dysfunctional dictionary that stuck to this day. :o) Thanks all Your amazing laurilye

It's good practice to model the kind of communicative behavior you want to see in your children. That includes pleases, thank yous, would yous, any kind of social 'nicety.' One thing is that social skills are important. A second thing is that even though social skills are 'optional' technically, doors open faster, and red tape disappears faster for people who are able to be polite (even, or especially when stressed or when it is clearly 'above and beyond'). It helps kids to develop these as habits. There are usually nonverbal cues that parents give and children pick up on, so that althought what the parent may say is 'please stop... whatever' the child understands that that please is qualitatively different from the please asking for nicety. Confusion is more likely if the parent or the child has problems processing the nonverbal information from their environment and social interactions. It's good actively avoid this kind of confusion if there is the possibility that the child cannot process nonverbal cues. (They hear 'please' and respond as if being asked for a nicety because they don't detect the tense intonations, or hands on hips posture cues.) it's just good to model the kinds of automatic behaviors that are desired for the children to model 'automatically'

Melanie, I've been praying for you and Sweetie. You've been in my thoughts and I'm so sorry for your loss and all the pain you are feeling now. It will lessen, but it won't go away totally. It just won't hurt all the time, except when something happens that brings it back. Right now my throat is closing up, because I'm thinking about losing my dog and my cat. It's been over five years now. Animals have brought me some of my greatest joys and my deepest sorrows. I cannot imagine not having a pet. I will tell you what did help me through my grieving process. After the first week or so, sit down and write something in tribute to Sweetie. It made me feel so much better. Here is what I wrote for my dog, Gus... Somewhere above my little dog waits; He patiently sits at a glistening gate. His eyes, once clouded, are shining and clear; His ears, long deaf, prick when my voice he hears. When he sees me, heâÂÂll bound high and low On legs that used to be stiff and slow. Instead of a collar, he wears a circle of light; HeâÂÂll welcome me Home, and all things will be right.

I wound all the bills and the "memories" around a toilet paper roll, put this in a box and wrapped the box real pretty. Had a slit cut in the top where the pulled the money out. I really don't think they paid that much attention to the money after they read the first memory. I think they were just looking for the next memory. It was def. a hit.