First of all, Jac, hugs to you, your daughter, her friend and her friend's sister, especially. That IS sad they tell her that. Wow. A customer of the place I work is a social worker, that works with teenagers teaching AIDS prevention. She works with kids as young as twelve, although the older teenagers make up the bulk of her clients. My boss just couldn't believe kids as young as 12 were, well, you know. I told him I bet in those cases the home life played a big part. It's sad, sad, sad that our kids have so much to deal with nowadays.

The silver lining is that in spite of such a tough world she's living in, your daughter's friend is still "a sweet little thing, newly 17 and my gardening protege. A true joy to have around, well mannered, funny and curious." Unless she's an "Eddie Haskell" type, which I rather doubt, those characteristics will help her overcome her upbringing and she'll continue to be a bright, successful adult.

Hang in there, Jac. It's good she has you as a friend.

Sally

People become their own person. If you think she has good qualities, then those qualities should prevail over time.

The background may have some impact, but it won't hold them back from becoming good people, so don't get overly concerned.

I've seen bad people come from good homes and good people come from bad homes and a lot of in-between. I've seen some of these same people switch "sides". I believe it's a personal decision how you want to be.
I do feel sorry for these girls. I'd have hid too. It's so hard not so say something sometimes! It will usually make things worse for the kids so I don't.The parents will blame the kids if they get yelled at for being cr*ppy parents. PJ

Spend a lot of time gardening with these girls. An article in the local paper recently said that garden therapy is used a lot in 'treating' women and girls who have been victims of abuse. We know how healing, renewing and joyfilled gardening is--now just share that with her. Hopefully, it will be a life long passion.

And, one more note, sometimes kiddoes this age do embellish the truth. I don't know if that is true in her case (I so hope so.) But I've heard things come out of my own son's mouth that ranged from ridiculous to outright lies...sometimes he actually believed them and his perception was off. Sometimes he just wanted to be 'badder' than everyone else. Sigh.

Being around you and your *normal* household is probably the best family education she can get. May you have patience and wisdom in relating to her.

Happy

(snort) There is nothing normal around here!

It just caught me off guard. I remember being their age and know I didn't think of myself as a kid.
Now that I've survived long enough to look back, it's amazing just how young 16 and 17 really are!

It's a blessing that kiddos find this a safe place to hang out. They all call me mom, just like my friends called (still do) my mother. But being naturally over protective costs me some sleepless nights!
I get so bloody mad at these fools who were given the gift of healthy, sane children and they treat them with such disregard. Time will not wait for them to learn to appreciate the wonderful young people living in their own homes.

Anyhow...I keep lots of pass along plants, seeds and seedlings for them to take home. We go on hikes so they learn the local plants and that most herps/bugs are our friends. My DD has taught several kids to ride a horse and a few to swim. Everyone has something to offer a child/teenager if we just take the opportunity.

Just gotta get my brain outta the box.
Mantra...they are not babies, they are not babies....

Great job, Jac. I'm proud of you and your daughter!

Sally

"I get so bloody mad at these fools who were given the gift of healthy, sane children and they treat them with such disregard. Time will not wait for them to learn to appreciate the wonderful young people living in their own homes."

I am very proud of my kiddos and GS,

Jac, How wonderful it is that your such a caring person and through your caring you can give to this young lady a friendship that will last a life time. Someone like you takes life serious which I myself do too. My daughter treats my grand babies awful and it is so very hard on me to see my own babies being treated without respect for being human. I have cried many tears and prayed many prayers for them. All I can do is be there for my grand kids and shower them with my love and guide them in my own way when I'm with them.
My daughter could not afford to give my grandson a birthday this year so I told her I would buy the cake, ice cream and presents but she told me she did not want me to do this, I told her she can't let him go without a birthday but she would not hear anything about me doing this for him. Well, I was not about to let my darling little 7 year old grand son go without a birthday. I got a cake and ice cream and some toys, he was so happy when he walked into the house after school to see his party all set up he yelled Moma moma come to my birthday party, moma was in the bathroom getting ready to leave and she would not come into the kitchen to celebrate his birthday my poor grand son finally asked his moma aren't you going to come to my party? This was like taking a knife into my heart I felt so upset and anrgy at my daughter for treating my grandson this way and just hurts so bad.
Hug's too you for your kind and caring heart.

Bless your heart, Barb. (((hug))) I am sorry you have this additional burden when there is so much you already have to cope with.

Don't know what your daughter's problem is but I hope someone can get to the root of it and straighten her out.
That is flat out selfish and immature.

All you can do is continue to love and support the kiddo. I believe that is what grandparents are for - to fill in for the parent's shortcomings and teach the little ones. You don't get all that life experience for nothing, ya know!

I was blessed with a daughter who talked to me about everything. She was not a liar, and would offer information that often was unsettling to me, but I would usually just shudder and brace myself for what was to come next. I really would have preferred to 'talk' later, like....next year?

Once, she came and asked if I would please talk to 'Susan' about birth control, because 'Susan' was sneaking out to meet 'Matt' and she was going to wind up pregnant. These are 15 year old girls. I protested, because 'Susan' was not my daughter, I didn't want a big fight with her mother.

I asked 'Susan' if she could not go to her mother, who was, after all, a nurse. I thought maybe she would be better equiped to handle human problems.

"Good Grief, No!" she said. "My mother thinks I'm a virgin!"

I thought so too.

Which left me with the problem of whether my little girl should play with 'that girl'. She chose to continue her friendship for awhile, then 'Susan' got pretty heavy into drugs and faded from the picture at our house.

I always felt that I was so lucky that Annie and I had the kind of relationship that we did have. If she had come and said that she wanted to know about birth control, I would probably have keeled over on the spot, but when I came to, I would have made sure she was armed with whatever information she needed.

I am very proud of my kiddos too. They all seem to have turned out pretty good, in spite of my lack of experience and intemperate temperment.

Janie

Wow, Barb, my heart goes out to you, your grandkids, and your daughter. Like Jac said, it sounds like maybe there's something going on, and maybe she needs some emotional help. Getting her take accept help is another story, though, I'm sure. If she needs help with budgeting, there's lots of help out there. Look at Half Price Books for the books by Amy Dacyczyn, called "Tightwad Gazette." This lady has/had countless tips on how to live extremely frugally. Her books are humorous, too.

I have also been blessed with a daughter that feels comfortable talking with me. My son is another story, but at least my daughter is comfortable talking things over with me. Luckily, she and my oldest son, not the one I just mentioned, thrived in being "different." They didn't care one whit about fitting in with the crowd. That's a big bonus, because lots of the trouble kids get into is with trying to fit in and be like the "cool kids." I also encouraged them to make decisions. Once when my daughter was only around 4 or 5 - maybe a bit older we were shopping at a Ross, or somewhere, and we were trying to find clothes that she liked. The dressing room attendant was scandalized that I would even consider letting my daughter make the decision about what to get. She felt that it should be my decision, and that the child had no business making decisions at that age. I was dumbfounded. I don't remember if I told her my opinion of her opinion, but basically, if a child is not taught to make and live with decisions from day one, what are they going to do when faced with difficult decisions when they are older, like whether to go to bed with a boy, or do drugs, or whatever? Geeze, it's just plain common sense. Let a child make decisions about simple things when they are young, and they just might learn to make difficult decisions when they are older. Well, I think I'm rambling, so I'll quit now.

Sally

((Barb)) here's a hug from me too. I know how you feel in a way. My ex is a jerk to my son who now has issues with abandonment and takes them out on who's the most avalible....ME! He will probably have trust issues for most of his life. For example(one of millions I swear) We were in the pet store yesterday. My son pointed out a top-of-the-line dog bed. He tells us excitedly that's the dog bed his dad's dog has. Meanwhile, this putz hasn't bought his son ONE SINGLE stick of furniture in 12 yrs! When my son stays (for the summer this year if dad doesn't flake out like over winter break) he gets a sleeping bag and a suitcase to live out of.He's been going to his dad's once a month with this same sleeping bag the whole 12 yrs! It takes all I have not to flip out but I know it will just make things worse all around.
Birth control/STD's info started very young in this house.
"Use a condom everytime!" He just got his first "girlfriend" so he's going to get the whole medical graphs etc...instructions on how to use one now. How much fun can a mom have *sigh*?
Sally, I wish I'd been more into letting my son make decisions. It's always a good idea. I'm better with the second munchkin. PJ

((hugs)) to all of you!
I have a great-neice whom I consider mistreated and neglected. She is a beautiful 8-yr old who thinks her Aunt Kathy (me) is "it"! She practically begs to spend the night with me on weekends. I try to keep tabs on her as much as possible. I talk with her mother and grandmother (my niece and sister) about her, trying not to step too hard on any toes. I'd really like to stomp hard on both their feet!! But, it would only keep me out of her life, cutting off her "escape route".

When she stays with me I'm always gardening ;-), and she loves it! She just needs some love and attention, and to know that she matters! Her cousins (my 3 granddaughters) are crazy about her, as she is them; they are all such precious little girls. They all come to my house to "just be kids", ya'know? And to have an adult pay attention to them, and even play with them. We have a great time; always a "girls night"...PawPaw (my DH) escapes to my son's house! LOL

Anyway, the best we can do for these children is be a good influence for them, and a warm heart for them to hold on to.

((hugs)) to all the lonely little kids, and the grown ones too....