Dawn, Thanks for the research and update!

I have quite a bit of yellowing on the bottom leaves of some tom plants, but on a couple, the yellowing has spread farther up to be of some concern. I sprayed a bit with some Daconil, but am leary of possibly harming my beneficial insects. I would rather pull the plants out than do that. I realize, (now), I may have planted them a tad too close, and now they have a very heavy foliage and fruit load.......but, also, remember we have a very WET and cool spring, so, who knows.

Before I started frequenting this forum, I always figured some yellowing of bottom leaves was natural, but I've never had it travel up a tom plant into the higher parts of the plant.

There is a new fungicide Serenade, that's supposed to be organic. I know you've heard of it. I wonder if we should treat our plants, including the ones we may buy at the Big Box stores with such a product routinely and as a preventative or precautionary treatment.....at least in the case of early blight, or other fungus born plant diseases?

Barbara

Barbara,

You're welcome. I have watched on the Tomato Forum and at other places where gardener after gardener has grimly reported the arrival in their garden of Late Blight, and I just can't believe how rampant it is this year. I think we all need to be aware of it and watch for it this fall. An early, cool, wet fall is bad for our plants in regards to EB, so we should hope for a hot, dry fall (which I normally wouldn't hope for).

I used Serenade the first year it was on the market. It seemed to work. The next two years, it didn't seem to help at all. I haven't used it since. I suspect that 'lucky' first year was just a low-disease year.

Yellowing leaves on tomato plants can mean many things. Primarily, the yellowing of leaves indicates stress, and since we live in an area with a lot of stressors, I do consider yellowing leaves to be more or less 'normal'. The key is to figure out what is causing the stress.

When lower leaves only turn yellow and the yellowing does not progress upward fairly quickly, that's just old leaves turning yellow and getting ready to fall.

When lower leaves turn yellow and I don't think that the plant is mature enough to be "old" yet, I evaluate the situation to see if the plants have been either overwatered or underwatered.

When lower leaves turn yellow and the upper leaves aren't quite the usual healthy green, I generally decide the plants are hungry, and feed them some liquid seaweed.

If sporadic leaves up and down the plant turn yellow, that can indicate a salt buildup in the soil or high-salt water. This is more common in containers and generally results from a build-up of certain fertilizer ingredients in that case.

Yellowing leaves also can indicate disease pressure, and in OK on plants bearing heavy loads of fruit in hot and humid weather, it normally means Early Blight. If you have concentric dark circles with a bull's eye appearance, that normally is Early Blight. If it is EB, I remove the yellowing leaves and try to keep moisture off the remaining leaves. Some people spray with a fungicide like copper (organic) or chlorathalonil (aka Daconil). I generally don't spray because I like to pick tomatoes off the plants and eat them in the garden while I'm working.

Yellowing leaves can mean other disease or insect issues too.

I've had massive amounts of EB show up just since last week's rainfall followed by heavy dew every morning. I picked off the affected foliage today (which left some plants mighty bare), but I haven't sprayed yet.

I was thinking of spraying tonight, but then I started watching the NFL Hall of Fame Enshrinement Ceremony (Dallas' "Bullet" Bob Hays is being enshrined as I type this!), so all evening garden plans flew out the window.

Jay probably can tell you if he thinks spraying with a fungicide helps slow down or halt EB, if EB is what you have. Or, he might have his own ideas about the yellowing leaves.

For what it is worth, some university research (which may or may not be unbiased) I've seen recently indicates Serenade has little effect on the diseases studied, which backs up what I observed in 2 years out of 3.

The best way to avoid these diseases is to spray on a 7-10 day rotation, using two different fungicides to avoid resistance, from the day the plants go into the ground. It is much easier to prevent Early Blight and other foliar diseases than to treat for them afterward.

Without even seeing your plants, I'd say they have EB, and I see it to some extent every year. This year I'd mostly had Septoria Leaf Spot. Now, suddenly, EB is everywhere and especially on my container plants which looked almost perfect until 2 or 3 days ago.

I have Daconil and haven't sprayed it yet. I hate to spray anything chemical, so I've been sitting on the fence and putting off spraying. My plants are at the crisis point now where either they'll improve, or they won't, and spraying might help and it might not.

I have a freezer full of tomatoes for winter cooking, tons of dehydrated ones for winter salads and snacks, and 5 gallons of tomatoes sitting on the counter that I picked today....and more to pick tomorrow. So, if my plants nosedive and I have to yank them out, I can't complain, now can I? I also have 25 fall tomato plants that are perfectly healthy so far, so I may not bother spraying the spring ones.

What does all of this mean? IF it is EB, spraying may or may not help. I think removing all the diseased foliage does help, but it can expose ripening fruit to excess sunlight and that can cause sunscald. If spraying with Daconil doesn't bother you, then do it. Can't hurt and might help.

Dawn

Dawn
Thanks for the info! As usual, very much appreciated. I am thinking there is a combination of issues going on with the toms. I haven't done much removal of diseased foliage on the toms, but did on some the couple that were sporacially yellowed on some upper leaves....next to a large cluster of fruit. I grabbed some fresh hay and make sort of a covering for those so they wouldn't get sun scalded in this atrocious over 100 degree heat. I'm tellin ya, I fret over these plants like a mother hen! I don't have the luxury of being able to pull any tom plants right now, since these ARE the late spring plants that were planted as soon as I could after the wet spring we had and they are just starting to bear. I do have some intermediates I started later from some of the select seed varieties mentioned here on the forum. I've been sort of staggering the plantings, and now, I guess I have all the young fall plants in the ground that I want or have room for. Most of them are looking really good and I'm hoping they stay healthy til and through the fall growing season. About 70 tom plants altogether, and that's more than enough for me, and the freezers, or canning jars, if they all do well.
I realize sometimes we have to resort to using controls, when under a serious attack of one kind or another. Just yesterday I noticed that my corn was being attacked by what apparently was corn borer, and shredding the leaves and making a nasty looking frazz like stuff. I made some BT spray for that, and hope it works. All this, plus the usual harvest and processing work while I had that viral layrngitis that's been going around, and then an ear infection on top of it.
I started thinking today, if CEO's of large corporations work as hard as we do, they'd demand more raises. But, our rewards are different, and there may come a day when money can't buy what we've already put in the ground or the freezer. By the way, glad to hear you have another new one. You are certainly deserving :)

Barbara

Barbara,

You're welcome.

One of the reasons tomato plant diseases are so vexing to figure out is precisely because the conditions that encourage one disease seem to encourage 3 or 4 diseases all at once. It is almost a given in Oklahoma that you'll see Early Blight. In a normal year I see it in late June, so it really was overdue to arrive here. In a normal year that is drier, I seldom see Septoria Leaf Spot, but it arrived in June instead of the Early Blight. Normally, cool and wet spring weather bring bacterial spot or bacterial speck in April or early May, but they really didn't this year....until latest July or August. With tomato plants, it is always something.

Since these are your main crop plants and they are just now starting to bear, I'd alternate spraying a copper fungicide (Kocide is one, but there are others) with Daconil on a 5 to 7 day schedule. Usually, I'd recommend a 7 to 10 day schedule, but I'd go with the slightly shorter shedule for the first month in an effort to really knock out the multiple foliar issues and save your plants and crops. I read the other day that even Tim Stark, a well-known organic tomato grower (and author) in NY who grows for the NYC farmer's market, is spraying with a synthetic fungicide for the first time in 17 years in an effort to get a crop there in NY state. Sometimes such spraying is absolutely essential and this is one of "those" years.

As far as saving fruit from sunscale, if your fruit are caged or trellised, you can use clothespins to attach a sheet of newspaper to shade any fruit or fruit clusters left exposed after diseased foliage is removed.

I hope you're over the laryngitis and ear infection....it is hard to talk to your plants when you have laryngitis and hard to hear their reply when your ears are stopped up. : )

I think we work so hard at what we're doing in our gardens because we have a deep and abiding passion for gardening. You know, if we have to paint the house, for example, we paint the house and we do a good job but we aren't throwing our heart and soul into it....because that passion just isn't there when it comes to housepainting...it is just a chore. When gardening is your hobby and your passion and your therapy and it is the job that feeds your soul, then you do put an extraordinary amount of effort into it, but I prefer to think of it as "fun" even though it really is a lot of "work".

The new freezer is nice to have. I removed ALL my garden produce from the deep freeze in the house and from the freezer compartments of both refrigerators and put it together in the new deep freeze. It is amazing how easy it is to find other stuff in those freezers now. I am sure that I'll fill up the new deep freeze and then start putting the overflow into the house's deep freeze again, but right now my deep freeze in the house is so neat and orderly, and it is so easy to find stuff, that it seems almost unnatural!

Since we've moved here, I've tried to grow as much of our produce as possible, but between the fire dept. activities and the recurring droughts and all the deer problems, I've never raised as much as I wanted. Don't get me wrong--I've raised a lot. For example, most years I get a whole year's supply of corn and onions. This year, though, the late spring that seemed so awful at the time has turned into a mixed blessing. The garden I thought wouldn't produce well after being drowned did produce well after all, the taller fence (raised higher last year) has kept the deer out, the summer rains have kept the garden productive and the lower fire pressure thanks to the still-green grass has freed me from having to run to so many grassfires. All those conditions have given me the most productive garden ever, and I have had such fun "putting food by" for winter, as my grandmother used to say.

I broke the news to DH the other day (AFTER we brought home the new deep freeze) that I want to double the size of the garden next year so I can raise as much of our garden produce as is humanly possible. He wasn't overly thrilled at the idea of breaking up/fencing in more ground, but he'll help me do it......he loves the taste of home-grown produce as much as I do.

Dawn

I haven't been reading all the threads on this forum or any for that matter this week with everything going on. Just read through this thread. I hate to start on a thread if I don't have time to read all of it. I could just say Ditto to what Dawn said and leave it at that. But then Dawn would be disappointed if I didn't ramble on aimlessly a little.

I will address the issues in no particular order.

Seranade. Last year I did like this year started off trying to go without spraying and then when I gave up already had some disease issues. I agree it is best to start if you plan to spray 7-14 days after transplant. I pruned leaves last year and then sprayed with Daconil heavy the first time and then at the regular rate and the first two on a five day rotation and after about 3 weeks things were going good. I then decided to try Seranade. No change in weather and no moisture. In five days I was in another mess. Early blight mainly and a few spot problems. I then went back to Daconil and stayed on a 7-10 schedule till Labor Day and then quit spraying and things were fine. So for me it hasn't worked well at all. I listened to the Rutgers/Cornell webex and they stated that they hadn't seen good results on a consistent basis with Seranade. Like Dawn said you need to balance that a little but have seen many say the same. Think it may work under certain conditions.

This summer I have used Daocnil mainly along with two forms of copper and may try another. Copper seems to work better on the spot and speck. Daconil covers more diseases and works well especially on EB. I didn't spray during the last rainy spell due to rain every night. Not complaining. I did spray one night and got two inches a few hours later. When the rain quit and it warmed up I had some spot so sprayed with Copper. The EB took ahold again. So have been trimming leaves and spraying with Daconil and think I have it under control again.

I have read some of the organic controls and have tried some from sources I respect. I haven't tried the skim milk yet but may sometime. Did try the peroxide this summer and may try it as a preventative next year. I saw some promise to it. But just thought I had better go with what I trusted as the insect borne diseases were getting so many didn't want to lose any I could possibly save. Think in a normal year that it might be enough. But will have to use it for a few years to make my final judgement.

I usually try to go by the label on spraying schedules. Most will say 7-10 days or 5-7 days. I have seen several back east spraying every day or every other day and some have lost every plant and some have only lost a few after the Late Blight hit. Fortunately I have no real experience with late blight. With Early blight as a preventative I've had good results on a 10 day schedule if you have little or no rainfall and not many heavy dew mornings. If the dew is heavy or you have rainfall I would decrease that. With copper most of mine say from 5 days up. In a rotation I spray on the 5th day if weather allows.

Now we get into some of my observations and opinions. Like I stated earlier in the year. I have less problems and better results in a normal year with plants planted late and even volunteers. There have been a few exceptions. This year is holding true. I put out several late for several reasons most covered in earlier posts. From me breaking off a few, early wilt on a few and then I had some plants that I wanted to grow that got stunted in a new seed starting mix also had a few nice plants left in the frames when I went to clean them out although most were rootbound and should of been out weeks earlier. This year is a typical year for them. Even the stunted plants have took off. No disease and setting fruit. Will they ever be as big of a plant. No. Will they produce more fruit per plant than the early ones when you figure all the ones I lost. Yes and I feel more. I know a market gardener not far from me and she is like me. She grows a few earlier ones because there is more demand and they sell higher earlier. But like she said the plants that really start producing around Sept 1st will do better and produce more with less care here in our climate. She is about 80 miles SW of me in the TX Panhandle. For me if I want to stay mainly organic later planting is the best in a typical year. I will continue to scatter my plantings from early to late so I can cover my bases. I'm also trying some direct winter sown and also starting some in the cold frames and then going into the garden a few days after they break the ground. The ones started outside seem to be healthier. And can withstand elements a little better.

With all of this said I still haven't found a good plan for the insect borne diseases except rain. And they have been my big problem this year. And the other thing is stress caused by weather conditions. I was looking at some last night I had been threatening to pull for 7-10 days. They are looking better now and the purple is going out of most of the leaves. Shows it was stress and weather related. I've found no sure way to tell besides time or sending off a sample.

Final summary is that Daconil works for me. The copper's work for a few specific problems. The Garlic Barrier spray I used this summer controlled most insects if applied on a five day or less schedule. It doesn't control hornworms or psyllids. BT and Spinosad worked on most of those that it didn't except the thrips. I didn't have near as many but a few. And that could of been because I wasn't spraying on a five day schedule. One thing I plan on trying next year is peroxide and Garlic Barrier on a 5 day rotation starting a week after transplant or emergence. Many say healthy plants will withstand a disease problem. I feel that it really helps but had some of my biggest and healthiest go down. And when it comes to the insect borne diseases I don't see much that help. Many say to kill all weeds around. But like I've told Dawn I've seen some of the best tomatoes this year growing is weeds and bermuda grass. i know one friend who let weeds grow in her plants and one marker grower who leaves all sunflowers. Saying they attract the insects that carry the diseases away from the tomatoes. i feel there is some truth to that. Hope your plants recover and do well. Jay

Jay,

You're right. I am disappointed when you are too busy to comment here. I always enjoy hearing your perspective and feel like I learn a lot from your experiences there in a tougher, less hospitable growing climate than what most of us have here.

Every time you mention "rain" or "raining", I smile to myself, thinking how good it has that you finally got rain! Too bad the rain encourages the diseases.

I wonder about the weed connection too, because I have weeds in the head-high pastures next door, which are about 30' from my garden's south fence, and I grow flowers (including sunflowers) right alongside my veggies. I cannot tell the weeds hurt any, and the folks here who have let weeds completely take over their spring veggie gardens are still getting tomatoes, even though the weeds are covering up the tomato plants and often are taller than the tomato plants.

Your late-season tomatoes perform the same as our fall tomatoes. The first year I grew all the Livingston types from Victory Seed, I put the Livingstons into the garden in late June to fill the hole left by the harvest of early corn. The Livingston tomatoes didn't grow very well (it was a drought year and they were in barely-improved clay and not in raised beds) all summer long, but they were disease-free and pest-free and survived. When the cooler fall weather arrived, and maybe a little rain as well, they produced very well. Sometimes my fall tomato harvest is greater (in pounds) that my summer harvest, and it mainly depends on when the first freeze comes. The year that the first hard freeze was in December, I actually got tired of picking tomatoes and just gave up and stopped.

Dawn