Dawn like I said it in the other thread I listened to the webcast last night. It was very good and informative. Hard to visualize how destructive the disease is till you see pictures of whole fields that died within a short span. One farmer thought at first he used the wrong spray when he sprayed for pesticides a few days earlier. One of the moderators plants got it. She said the side facing a potato field hit by it I believe 2 miles away were the first hit. Said it really spreads with the wind. She said if the weather dries out it will help. So if that is the case I should be fine for now. I do feel for them. They covered most other tomato diseases and did a very good job. Stayed on a level all could understand. And explained on those that have many of the same symptoms what you can do to decide which it is. I will try to listen to their webcasts in the future. Jay

Jay,

I'm glad you caught the webinar because I wasn't able to. If they do another one, I'll try to catch it.

I've never seen late blight move into and across a field, but I understand it moves at an astonishing rate.

If hot + dry + windy = safety from this plant disease, your plants have nothing to fear.

I feel for the farmers and gardeners too.

Dawn

Dawn I think hot + dry helps for sure. They did stress making sure seeds you started or even plants you bought were from seeds that had been soaked in a clorox solution or the hot water method. And they said the hot water method is for professionals. Most commercial seeds are soaked in a clorox solution they said. I started doing that last year. Also they say Clorox is good to clean all tools ect with. The only problem on cages one moderator thought it best to soak cages. I sprayed them with a strong solution but soaking 40-50 5 ft cages would take some time and a big tank. I plan on continuing to spray with a strong solution. Fusion is the first one i got the clorox information from then the extension service was pushing it. I'm sure I'll think of more of what they said later. That disease hopefully won't be a problem here. Now some of the others I've had and think the methods will work good on them also. Jay

Jay,

I've never soaked my seeds in a Chlorox solution before, but ever since you mentioned that you do it, I've been thinking that I ought to give it a try. I've never worried about my cages a lot. Well, I've worried about them, but I haven't come up with a good solution. The thought of trying to soak all my cages makes me cringe. I could spray them though.

When you spray your cages, how much are you diluting the bleach?

I'm sure that what works well for late blight ought to work on just about anything else bacterial or viral. Well, I have to wonder if anything would work with Tomato Spotted Wilt Virus or Tomato Yellow Leaf Curl, but I haven't had much experience with those two diseases, which is a good thing.

Dawn

Jay, Since you save your own seeds, you might be interested in reading this information on saving tomato seeds at www.wintersown.org. Here is the URL

http://wintersown.org/wseo1/Tomato_Seeds.html

Just as an item of info: I wintersowed my Sungold seeds this year and it worked just fine. They were ready to set out at the same time as my other tomatoes. I am sure that has a lot to do with climate tho. After they germinated, I had to set them inside a building a few nights when the temps were dropping way down. Mine are strong plants. I gave some of them to a neighbor and I walked over and checked them out last night, and they look good too. As a matter of fact, all of the tomato plants (some WS, some not) that I gave him look better than the ones he bought. His are in the ground and mine are in containers.

I watered late yesterday and then they got water again in the night by a good 1.1 inch rain.

Tell me what you think of the tomato seed cleaning method. It sure looks easier than the way I have done it in the past. Also has some added protective benefits.

Folks,
Concerning the use of dilute Clorox solution for treating fungus, I can say it is the best treatment for so many uses. One year I had a serious fungus problem with a huge bed of zinnias and morning glory's that I'd run up a trellis close by. I sprayed all with a dilute bleach solution and it cleared right up. I'm not sure how this would work sprayed directly on the leaves of tomato's affected with late blight, but I think I would be willing to give it a one time shot rather than loose all my plants.

So far it's been hot, windy and dry here for quite awhile, but there is a forecast of a 30% chance of rain Sat. For once, I'm hoping it doesn't. I have more tomato's about ready to set out and some germinating, and have been considering curtailing growing too many more for the fall garden.

Barbara

Soonergrandmom,
I have read Trudi's method several times. I think it is a good one. The one I use is similar to what Fusion uses. And the same as Suze was using anyway except as far as I know she wasn't doing the Clorox soak. I soak mine in a Oxiclean solution for 20-30 minutes. Then rinse well and usually all the jell ect comes off and leaves a clean seed. I put them in a strainer to rinse. If they don't come clean I rinse till they do. Then I soak them in the Clorox for 2-5 minutes. I have been told different times and can't see it changes germination any. Then rinse and dump in a paper plate on a paper towel. Let them dry for at least a week and bag. I can do it all and be done in around 30-35 minutes. Fast and easy. I can do several bunches at once. I usually start rinsing the first ones at 20 minutes if I'm done cleaning seeds out by then and the last will be in around 30 by the time I'm finished. I also dump them in as I clean the seeds out of them and by the time I clean several varieties the first ones are almost ready to rinse and soak. A lot faster and less trouble than fermenting. Some use HCL and others sue TSP to clean and soak in. From what I've been told Oxiclean is a good cleaner and then Clorox is as good as any to soak in. I think most methods are good it is just what works for a person. To me Trudi's involves more work than mine. And I have the Items I use on hand so don't have to buy something special. I do use a separate cup for each variety. Try several and find a method or combination of methods that work for you.

Dawn I'm not trying to convince anyone they need to or have to soak in Clorox. It has been recommended to me by several sources and again last night was suggested by those with lots of experience. I think it is good insurance for me since I receive seeds from so many sources. And I soak my own also. This way they are all soaked. On the cages like you said it would be a nightmare to soak each cage. If I remember right I used a hose end sprayer and turned it as high as I could. And sprayed them. They say make sure you clean the debris off first. I can't say it helped but I'm sure it didn't hurt and doesn't take long. I do soak the other items I use around or on the plants. Like I said two years ago was a nighmare. And last year was difficult in a different way. It was TSWV two years ago and Yellow leaf curl last year. I think the garlic spray has helped keep the insects off the plants which in turn should help decrease the occurrence of both. So far this year knock on wood I haven't had either. This morning I looked all the plants over and pulled two more horn worms. Have pulled 24 so far. Two plants have had them twice. They have sure hurt a few of the plants. The plants looked good all except one. I reminded myself that I should never make judgements about plants in the evening after a real hot day. The morning is the time you will see if there is any real problems. Some that concerned me the last few evening looked fine this morning. I have been going through of a morning and checking for worms and shaking or brushing the plants but don't have the time to really them right. The one has some of the top that is wilting. Not sure why. I had some others do it for a few days. Blamed that on rapid growth when it was cool and not enough roots to supply water to the plant when it was real hot. They all look ok now except for the one. I will watch it and see if it don't recover. Finished the rest of my planting for a few weeks. Did think of another spot I may add a few more beans along a fence. Everything is ready for mulch now. Pulled a few more onions. This are the short day varieties and size is average. My short day usually don't get as big as they would further south and some of the long days are the same. A few of each do get good size. But I'm lucky in that I can grow almost any of them and get average size or better. Contessa is the only one I can think of that stays smaller. I get a few with size but overall smaller. We got two tenths of an inch while I was gone today. Every little bit is appreciated. Hope everyone has a safe and fun 4th. Jay

Soonergrandmom,
I have done some winter sowing in a little different way the last few years and really think it works. I have done some direct sowing of tomato seeds in the winter using WOW's and buckets with plastic as my mini greenhouses. Going to do more next year using my cold frames. Also will do some more direct next year if I can get everything done and ready in time. Yes I like the method for some things. Jay

Jay,

I have been outside picking tomatoes since 6 a.m. and I am exhausted. It didn't help that it was 84 degrees here when I stepped outside just after 6 a.m. I hate it when the nights don't cool down. By the time I came inside for either a very late breakfast or early lunch at about 10:45 a.m., it was 93 degrees and the heat index was 102. I hope that cold front hurries up and gets down here to southern OK.

Since Tim is working today, I'll spend the rest of my Independence Day dehydrating a lot of tomatoes and perhaps cooking or freezing some, and of course, saving some for fresh eating in the next couple of days. Even though I've been harvesting tomatoes since the last of April (the container ones were producing by the end of April from a February planting), the harvest probably is at its peak right now so there are lots and lots of them. I'm in hog heaven.

Every day this week, I've had a "favorite" tomato for the year so far. One day we ate Brandywines and I was sure, once again, that it is the best tomato in the world. Then we had some Brandy Boys and they sure were excellent, followed by Supersonic and Ramapo (yummy!). Next on the list to be eaten: Indian Stripe and Momotaro. What a wonderful week! So, if anyone asked my favorite tomato this week, I probably would have given a different answer depending on which one I'd most recenty eaten.

I was snacking on "Snow White", "Tess's Land Race Currant", and "Sun Gold" while working in the garden, and they are just as sweet and good as they can be.

I have never sterilized seeds or cages, but think I need to do both because foliage diseases are popping up all over since it rained. I'm mostly seeing some Septoria leaf spot and Early Blight. So, Chlorox seed soaks and spraying the cages will be on my list for next year.

I harvested all my onions this week. Candy did the best, followed by Texas 1015Ys and then Red Candy Apple. The 12" of rain stunted them all for so long that they didn't get nearly as big this year as my onions usually do, but I'm just glad they survived the near-drowning of the garden. I'll try Red Candy Apple again next year even though they were fairly small this year, which I believe is because of the excess rain.

All the warm-season crops are producing now, so it is a very busy week in the garden and in the kitchen. Tomatoes, peppers, cucumbers, crookneck squash, okra, zucchini and corn have been harvested this past week. Everything else is coming along fine and we'll be harvesting potatoes in a few days. Melons and black-eyed peas probably won't be ready until mid-month.

I've lost three plants now----a New Big Dwarf wilted one day and was dead by the next. No other symptom it was unhappy...just wilt and death. I'm glad I plant a lot of plants because losing one is not as distressing as it otherwise would be. I still have two other NBDs so we still should get some NBD tomatoes to eat.

I've seen one hornworm in the garden this week, but not a large amount of damage. It did eat some leaf tips on a Tess' Land Race Currant, but since this plant has monster vines that are about 8' tall at present and about 4' wide, that hornworm could eat all day long and not make much of a dent in it.

I am seeing brown stinkbugs but not in large numbers. I'll probably try to catch/kill them early in the morning for the next week or two and see if I can make a dent in their population.

That's all the tomato news from my garden.

Dawn

Dawn,
Not fair to be talking like that around those of us that are still waiting on our first. Sounds like things are going great for you. Glad to hear things are going so well after such a rough start. Mine as you know is scattered and some will be late. Seems by myself I have to do things by priority and some things suffer.

It is 84 here now. Saying around 87 today. Low 80's tomorrow and then upper 80's Monday. So hopefully will get some fruit set. The other nice thing that helps with fruit set is the lows are still in the low to mid 60's. Don't sound like you are cooling off like we are of a night. My Red Candy Apple onions aren't ready yet so can't comment on size yet.

I stopped by the farmer's market while in Guymon this morning. Picked up a registrations sheet and talked to one of the managers. Got to talk to an old gentleman selling honey. I used to go to a Bible study he leads. In his late 80's I believe. So had a good morning. They don't have very many showing up yet so anxious to see more interested. I told them that I would have some things like onions in a few weeks but most of mine is several weeks off due to my late planting of some and the planting of so many varieties that many don't set well. But will try to help them out what I can and plant more earlier next year. I think it is a good thing.

Heading out to put out mulch and some drip hoses. Overall things should slow down in the garden. I bought some Daconil while I was there also if I need it.

I'm having a problem on the south side of my garage that I've never had. I have no rain gutters but the soil there drains fast so have never had a problem in probably ten years of growing there. Have 5 plants there. Four have done well. The one hole I've had 3 plants in. When I removed the first two the soil around them was fairly dry. Although I water it when I do the other holes. On the plant I removed yesterday the roots looked the same. I put another plant in and filled the hole several times. The leaves never really wilt that bad. Just turn yellow and curl. Not sure where the moisture is going. I did time the it and the hole was draining awfully fast till I filled it about 3 times. Something must be using the moisture. Another puzzler.

Hopefully you can stay cool and don't overheat. Jay

Jay,

Our weather has been all over the place the last 6 weeks with very little consistency. Some nights it has dropped into the 60s and many nights it has dropped into the lower 70s. Walking out the door before sunrise to an air temperature of 84 was just pathetic. We usually have that kind of heat here at night in early August, not early July.

I cancelled my plan to dehydrate the tomatoes today when the heat index hit 105 and the power went out. The power was only out a couple of minutes, but it caught my attention and made me decide to wait until tomorrow. I don't want to have an oven full of baking sheets with little dehydrating tomatoes on them and then have the power go out.

It currently is 98 here with a heat index of 105, and we're in the "cooler" Red River Valley. Up in Ardmore and Madill, one of which is one county north and the other is one county northeast of us, they have hit 100 degrees and Ardmore's heat index is 106 and Madill's is 107. We're supposed to hit 103 here today but I keep hoping the cold front will send T-storms out ahead of it that will cool us down.

I hope my mentioning the ripe tomatoes didn't hurt you too much! I am sure you'll have ripe ones before you know it. My harvest is peaking a month late--it usually starts in earnest the first week in June and this year it really started around July 1st. I think the harvest will be just as large as past years, assuming some disease does not suddenly strike, but over a shorter period. As long as we get tomatoes to eat, that's all I care about.

Have you ever had trouble with the foundation of the garage wicking moisture away from the plants? Is that possible? I wonder too, if somewhere in the subsoil there might be a big crack and the water is seeping down into the ground through it. When our clay soil cracks, I could stand there with a hose running all day and the water would keep draining down....the crack would never "fill up". Our sandy soil hardly ever cracks, but our first drought year here I couldn't keep plants in it watered enough to keep them from dying. After a decade of soil improvement, that's not an issue any more though.

I went and bought Daconil but haven't sprayed yet. I keep trying and can't get to it before the heat gets too bad and I have to come inside. This morning, I picked all the ripe fruit I could before I came in for brunch, and then intended to go back outside, pick the rest of the ripe ones, remove the diseased foliage, and then spray. Since it got so hot so fast, I didn't get it done, so maybe I can finish it this evening when the temps drop down to some reasonable temperature like 92 or something.

When you lift those plants that are failing in that one hole, do you see any signs of root knot nematodes? Other than something that is strictly a soil drainage issue, nematodes are another possibility for a plant in sandy soil that is not thriving. Other than that possibility, I am stumped.

The farmer's market will be such fun. If you get hooked on selling there, you'll "have to" build a greenhouse or high tunnel so you can plant early and have the first ripe fruit at the market every year!

I am leaning towards building a high tunnel before next year. It wouldn't have to be really huge. I'd be happy if I could just plant 20 or 30 tomato plants really early and know they'd be protected from the colder nights and heavy rains. If we build a high tunnel, we'll put it on higher ground than the current veggie garden so that heavy rains aren't an issue.

It is so miserably hot here that I brought the outside dogs in from the garage to cool off for a couple of hours, and the feral cat who hates all the other cats and starts fights with them is even inside. He's in Tim's weight room, though, so he can sleep and chill out and not have any "contact" with our other laid-back, mellow kitties. We're pretty much in a regular routine now where the house dogs go to the master bedroom to sleep on their dog beds all afternoon, the cats go to the guest room (because the outdoor dogs like to chase cats), Yellow Cat goes to the weight room and the outdoor dogs sleep downstairs in the living room, breakfast room or kitchen. The only animals still outside are the poultry!

I am eagerly watching the radar for signs of cooling rain. I do have the sprinkler on right now, "watering" the chicken coop and fenced-in poultry run in an attempt to cool it down a bit for the 10-week old chickens.

Dawn

My harvest so far has been two small tomatoes and two cherries and two squash and the earlier snow peas. LOL Some friends brought us green beans and new potatoes and another brought a dish of cherry tomatoes.

Dawn - While I would love to have your harvest, I would NOT love your heat. I spent my first 20 years in southern Oklahoma or northern Texas, so this is an experienced decision. We had rain all morning and got another .86 so that is about 2 inches for the two day total. Our temp is 79 right now, but now that the rain has passed it is supposed to go to 89. We are going to a late afternoon/evening party so maybe it will still be a comfortable temperture later.

I always think of those Americans living in another country when this holiday rolls around. This morning I was thinking about my son in Nigeria. He called to say that the American school had invited the Americans over for a celebration and it was amazing how good a hot dog and hamburger tasted when you hadn't had one for so long. LOL He said they were sitting by the pool waiting for the dark and the fireworks. In the meantime, they were watching the bats, with a 2 foot wing span, dip down to the pool for a drink.

I expect hamburgers and hot dogs, dark and fireworks, but no bats at the party I am going to.

So many different communities have fireworks around the lake that you could go watch fireworks for several nights if you wanted to.

Carol,

Oh my, all that rain and those lovely temperatures. I am just insanely envious!

The heat seems worse this year, and I think it must be the higher humidity. After 20 months of drought with relatively dry air, I'd forgotten how hot it can feel when you actually have some moisture in the air.

Just a little while ago, I was looking at the heat index map on the Mesonet and the heat index in Madill was 110! So, if we're going to feel sorry for someone, let's feel sorry for them! : )

Our heat index had dropped to 104 the last time I checked, but it is still too hot to do anything.

Out here in the boonies, we can see 4 different fireworks shows from some of the yards here on our street....the ones at Falconhead, Lake Murray, the Winstar Casino and one from across the river in Texas....might be Muenster's or Lindsay's.

I have big bowl of melon and fruit to go with our hamburgers and hot dogs. Lots of ice cream too. And tomatoes. LOL This is the kind of day that I just want to stay in and stay cool.

I remember our first 4th of July here. Our son was 14 and my sister's kids were 13 and 12. We packed a big picnic lunch, loaded up all the food and lawn chairs and beach towels and such and went to Lake Murray. We adults wanted to wait and go "later" but the kids wanted to go "now", so I guess we got there about 11 a.m. Well, after an afternoon of hot sun, water, sand, food, etc., the kids were exhausted and wanted to leave around 6 p.m. They were too worn out to stay another few hours to watch the fireworks. It was fun at the time, but I have no desire to spend that many hours out in the sun on a hot day like this one.

I think it was so nice of the American school to host a Fourth of July celebration for the Americans there in Nigeria. Those sound like some big bats. All our bats here are tiny in comparison to those.

This is the hottest fourth we've had in a while. I am still hoping for rain....and we do have some nice big clouds building up, so we just might get some rain. I don't think the cold front reaches us until well after midnight though.

When Tim came in from work around 1 a.m., it was 84 degrees here. When I went outside at 6 a.m. it was 84 degrees. Somewhere in between those two times, the Mesonet says we dropped to 77, but we must not have stayed there long!

I'm looking forward to the next few days when we're forecast to have more reasonable temperatures and hope the lower temps will encourage more fruitset.

Dawn

Dawn,
No I don't see any signs of root nematodes. In fact the roots look healthy and all plants had put out roots from the stems also. Just the soil seems slightly moist but the root balls seem almost dry. And I try to water this area about twice as often as I do the others. The other concern is there is no real wilting. Just a yellow color and the leaves curl and the plants seem to be stunted. I admended this hole like all the other 80 or so. And the other 4 in this bed are fine and really growing. These were set out later. I'm sure as I try to move the holes every year between where the holes were the year before I've been in this area before. The only thing I can think of was I did put roses in this bed for a few years. And then as they died removed them. Removed the last ones I over a year ago. I do think one of the last rose bushes was in this area. Not sure if that would have an effect or not. Will so how this plant does. Maybe removing the rose bush created a hole I didn't get filled right down deeper is all I can think.
Four more horn worms yesterday. Seems this is the worst year I've had. Think they must of hit the plants in my frames. The early and direct sown plants seem to be ok. About all the plants planted after June first have been hit and some have had two. As they are scattered all around and in containers the only correlation I see is being in the frames.
Noticed this morning they have jumped the predicted temps for the upcoming week up again. And removed some of the rain predictions. Still a couple of chances in the forecast. Sure they will change again like they did last week. Low 80's today. Then around 90 tomorrow. Hopefully some fruit set during this spell.

I did spray the rest of the plants last night. Just decided I would and will probably spray again in two weeks then see what the weather is doing and how the plants look. Have some smaller ones that the horn worms hit that don't need anymore stress. The only other problem I'm seeing is leaf curling due to stress. Which is normal this time of year. The plant with the wilting problem looked better yesterday. Think it may of been due to the deep watering I did and maybe the roots are going through an area with manure ect. I've seen it before and about all I can figure out.
As you know predicting that first ripe one is hard till it starts to turn. I think 2-3 weeks which is later than normal. And some of the plants were in WOW's early. I think maybe I had the wrong varieties out early.
Used up most of my stored mulch yesterday. Have some more loose alfalfa to spread then done till I get some more. The weather has about stopped my supply of grass clipping from the recreation dept. Good thing I piled up a lot last fall. Then when I ripped last winter and pulled alot down into the soil that meant I had to add where normally I wouldn't. Don't plan on anything more than a shallow tilling if that this next year and will pull the mulch back before I do. Scattered most of the leaves I had stored since last fall. The worms were sure enjoying the lower layers.
If I get around to it I'm planning on building a greeenhouse before next spring. Have everything to do it. And may try to build a row cover. Never happy with what i have. ha. Jay

Jay,

We have cool weather and rain this morning, so the tomato plants (and I) are breathing a deep sigh of relief.

It is so odd that something is going on with that one hole. Based on what you said about the yellow leaves and not wilting, I have to wonder about a disease issue. If there was a physiological or nutritional issue, you'd likely see it with something else. Sometimes odd things happen though. I do have one tomato plant in a pot near the gate that leads into the dog yard, and it was looking sickly. Once I figured out that Duke was "watering" it occasionally on his way in and out of the dog yard, I moved it over a couple of feet to make it less of a target, and it is looking much better now. Duke is our only tomato-eating dog so maybe he was trying to help the tomato plant produce more tomatoes for him.

Our high temp today is supposed to be about 89 which is a huge improvement over yesterday's 100+ temperature. Then tomorrow it will be 90, so we are getting a two-day break from the heat. After that, though, the temps begin climbing again.

I'll be out thumping flowers and hoping for more fruit set during the next two or three days.

I have had two hornworms in the garden, but more outside the garden on the daturas that I grow for the large trumpet-shaped flowers that open at night. I usually just move the hornworm from the tomato plant to the datura area. We must have the predatory wasps that keep them under control, because I'd expect to see more than 2 on 80+ tomato plants.

I hope to get in some good gardening time this afternoon, although I wouldn't mind if more rain comes and I get "rained out".

At least our temperature are warm enough that you wouldn't expect late blight here....although early blight is a whole different story.

Dawn

Is there any organic way to stop this stuff???? Or do we have no other choice but Daconil?

We have no rain + hot + dry and nothing is stopping it. It's awful. The non-stop June rain decimated my strawberries, my green beans are not producing, and now this. I want to cry.

Do your plants have Late Blight? Normally you'd see it in cool, cloudy weather although you're certainly in the part of the country where Late Blight is running rampant, and it is airborne and the spores can travel for miles. If your plants have Late Blight, nothing will help them. If the plants have some other disease, an organic fungicide like copper (Kocide is one example) or Serenade might help.

Look at the images on the linked website and see if your plants' symptoms match one of the foliar diseases there.

Here is a link that might be useful: TAMU Tomato Problem Solver