Mari, Every gardener makes mistakes, has failures and gets frustrated about the pests--both insect and mammal. Like any other endeavor in life, it takes determination and perserverance to become proficient. Actually since there are so many variables--the weather can be a booger--I think it takes even more of these qualities to be successful at gardening than say--tennis or oil painting.

That said, yes this time of the year you will have to water those young seeds at least once a day and maybe more. I would get them moved into larger pots or into the ground, under a mulch ASAP. Other than broccoli, what other seeds have you started.

Concerning broccoli, I have been raising it for years, but have given up raising it in the fall because it's a bit of trouble and because I freeze enough from the spring garden to last all year. You will have a fall crop and actually it is a little early to start the seeds but if you can give them lots of water and shade the seedlings when you put them into the ground they may make it. Actually, broccoli can stand a half day of shade this time of year especially so if you have a place that gets shade from 2pm on it wouldn't hurt. I'm sure Dawn will chime in here with the plants she is most familiar with so come back and let us know which seeds you have started. Dorothy

Mari,

Dorothy is a wise woman and I agree with everything she said.

At this time of year, small seedlings do need water every day, and sometimes in the morning and again in the evening if it has been a very hot day.....little containers dry out quickly.

Every seed you sprout won't make it to adulthood, so I like having extras. Grasshoppers can be a real pest, but it depends on how many you have. A quick way to deal with them is to fill jars half-way full of water, and then stir in a teaspoon of syrup or molasses to sweeten it. The grasshoppers jump into the jar for the sweetened water and drown. I don't worry about a few grasshoppers, but they can migrate in huge swarms out here in our rural area, and a huge swarm can arrive and nibble everything down to nothing.

In a bad grasshopper year, they start hatching here in Jan. or Feb. and I know by increased numbers/early hatchings if it is going to be a bad year. At that point, I treat with Nolo Bait (an organic biological agent that targets grasshoppers and locusts) while the hoppers are small (1/4" to 1/2" long) because that is when it works. The larger they get, the less effective any treatment (chemical or organic) is. This is a very bad grasshopper year in our rural area, and my guineas are doing their best, but more grasshoppers fly in from elsewhere daily. I have a birdfeeder or two or three IN my veggie garden, and I've noticed that the songbirds who eat there daily often hang around and eat grasshoppers and other pests as well.

I don't know what the white furry ball kind of spidery-looking thing was, but most spiders are beneficial and eat other pests.

As Dorothy said, tell us what else you're growing. Are you going to plant in the ground or only in containers? If you have room for more containers and don't mind spending the money for a potting soil or sterile soilless mix to fill them, grow bags may be a solution for you. They come in all sizes and you can line them up along a fence line, or beside the house or garage (so the building can help shade them in July/August). My favorite grow bags are from Sun Leaves because they are white on the outside to reflect heat away from the plant roots. They come in many sizes. I use the 10-gallon size for indeterminate tomato plants, but smaller sizes could be used for smaller veggies. I fill the bottom half with fine pine bark mulch, and the top half of the bags with my veggie-growing version of Al's Container Mix. I'll link a source for the bags. Just click on the "size" box on the link, and you'll see they come in various sizes and quantities.

And, as far as feeling frustrated and nervous.....well, try to relax and enjoy the process and don't fret over the results.

For me, gardening is not a "job" in which I input "A" (seeds) + "B" soil + "C" (water) to equal "D" (fruit, veggies or flowers). Instead, I approach it as a lifestyle choice.....in which I put in not just the raw materials like seeds, soil and water, but also spirit and enthusiasm and joy, if that makes any sense. To me, gardening is a "journey" that I enjoy each and every step of the way, every day, and not a "destination" where I pressure myself to have "results" to show for all the work and material put into it. Does that make sense? This way, I get the pleasure of gardening, the joy and the fulfillment that comes from "trying" and "learning", whether I have a lot of produce or flowers or not. By making gardening more about the process and less about the results, I think I remove a lot of the pressure, stress and frustration. Do I like it better when I have fruit and veggies to feed my body and flowers to enjoy? Yes, of course. But, the process of gardening feeds my soul even more. So, relax and enjoy the journey, and consider the fruit, veggie or flowers as a "bonus" on top of the joy of gardening.

Dawn

Here is a link that might be useful: Grow Bags at Worm's Way

Dawn,

I love your gardening philosophy! I have started three new flower beds this year, from full sun to mostly shade. I am learning what will work and what won't. I sometimes get frustrated when I see that my "perfect plan" didn't work out very well. But like you said, it's a learning process, and the joy I get from planning and planting is endless. Thanks again!

Lee Ann

Lee Ann,

You're welcome. I like your philosphy! Gardening is one of the healthiest, most fulfilling ways to spend your time. I'm glad you are finding it to be a joyful experience.

I always tell myself "Don't sweat the small stuff....and it is all small stuff." Well, except when it's not raining. That's my main stress, and I know I can't control it! (sigh)

Dawn

Hi guys. Thanks for listening to my fears and being so kind. I feel a lot better now. To be honest, some people around me (neighbours and friends) were getting to me and being very negative about the whole thing, so I panicked.

When you have folks saying, "NOTHING grows in Oklahoma, so why bother with all this" it can be a real downer.

Anyway, I am fortified and ready to charge full throttle ahead. As my husband said, "this year is an experiement, we will know from experience what we can and can't do next year." He's such a strength as times :-)

Here is what I am planting/starting.

Broccoli
Beets
Wax beans
Mustard greens
Turnip greens
Spinach
Zuchinni
Radish
Bok Choy
Chinese Cabbage
Garbanzo (experiment)
Lentils (experiment)
Piegeon Peas (from Caribbean-experiment)
Tomatoes
Lettuce

Our tomatoes are in the ground (planted a month ago) and several in pots. The ones in pots are doing better. Not sure if it's the heat or bugs that's a handicap.

Mari,

More than likely, it is the heat. July and August heat are VERY HARD on gardens, but they can take it with your help! You likely are seeing bugs because they find stressed plants more attractive, and all plants are more stressed in July and August. It will be OK.

Ignore those naysayers......anyone who makes the effort and devotes time to raising veggies will be successful. I don't mean that every season will be a rip-roaring success, but most will be. The people I encounter who "bad-mouth" gardening tend to be the type who try once, "fail" and then give up. Giving up accomplishes nothing, so don't let seasonal problems discourage you. If all the farmers "gave up" because they had a bad season, no one in this country would be raising any crops at all for us to eat, and where would we be then?

Dawn

Dawn,

I plan to use that argument about farmers with the naysayers around me. They're a bunch of "Debbie downers" according to my daughter, lol

Forgot to mention that I am trying Borage as well. Some of these I plan to bring indoors for the winter to see if maybe next spring they'll take off much faster. Is that a good idea? I have a spare bedroom that gets some nice sunlight during winter, and that is where I put the pepper tree last year, and it survived.

Mari, all sorts of things grow around here. It just might not be as easy as sticking a seed in the ground and that's it :) I think we are actually in a pretty good spot, we have actual seasons and our seasons are long enough for two gardens, spring and fall. If you have gardened in another zone though, it might take some thought rearranging. I grew up in Colorado and what we could grow in the summer there needs to be adjusted by a few weeks.

My secret to gardening is watering and weeding. Anything I plant this time of year will take a lot of watering. I put out a bunch of daylily seedlings a couple of weeks ago and I lost probably 75% of them. But it was my fault, it's hot! They needed water at least once a day and I got busy and forgot. So I lost them. I started a new bunch...oh my what was I thinking! :)

I do flowers, I have attached a link to my photobucket account. They aren't veggies, but they will at least give you some eye candy when people say nothing grows here!

Here is a link that might be useful: Lisa's gardens

NOTHING grows in Oklahoma? WHAT A CROCK. Something grows almost EVERYWHERE in the US if you can get water to it.I grew up in Seattle. Swiss Chard, spinach, lettuce grow all summer there--put you have to fight the slugs. Tomatoes need all the sun you can give them and special varieties and okra wouldn't grow at all. My Dad tried to grow potatoes in the desert in California; they died. the soil was too alkaline. We grew celery in California, but it won't grow here at all. Growing season too hot. But Oklahoma grows lots LOTS of stuff. I've put 70 ears of corn in the freezer and Sunday we will pick at least 200. You can't buy it this fresh. I've got more cucumbers, squash and tomatoes than I can eat right now and should dig a couple bushels potatoes soon.

Now concerning what you are growing. I usually start brocc tomatoes, super sugar snap peas in Mid Feb on a plant stand on a glassed porch with bottom heat. The peas go in the ground the first of March, the broc mid march-first April, cabbage at the same time, tomatoes first of April--being careful to cover if a freeze threatens. Beets I direct seed no later than Mar 1-Mar 15 along with spinach, chard, lettuce and radishes and onion plants or sets. Beans, corn cucs squash get direct seeded starting in mid April. I usually like to wait until Aug 1 to start seeds for the fall garden--broccoli can stand light freezes and should last until mid Nov. I plant Early Dividend which in the spring I plan on pulling up Memorial day weekend. I direct seed spinach, lettuce, radishes, mustard, turnips, bush beans anytime mid Aug to mid Sept that we get a good rain. Some years I eat spinach in Jan. Remember 05? This year I am going to direct seed beets in Sept as I foolishly planted too short a row this spring. Beets can also take a frost. BTW beets will keep for A YEAR in the crisper of a refrigerator. Happy Gardening and keep on experimenting

Mari,

I don't really overwinter anything indoors, so don't have any idea what will or will not survive inside. I do put my potted daturas and brugs in the tornado shelter once they're dormant and overwinter them there in a dormant state with no light and only a tiny bit of moisture to keep the soil and roots from totally drying out.

My borage tends to reseed, and if I start some indoors from seed and set it out "too early", it doesn't take off until the air temps and soil temps are "just right", so I don't know if overwintering it indoors will make it take off any more quickly.

As for those people who say certain things won't grow here, so don't bother trying....I wonder how hard they tried?

Here's my experience with many (not ALL!) new veggie gardeners who give it only a half-hearted try: In early to mid March, they till up a piece of land that has either native pasture grass or bermuda grass with lots of crabgrass and other weeds. They don't bother raking out the roots at all, or just make a half-hearted effort. They don't add anything to the soil at all. Usually they have clay soil (in our part of the county). Sometimes they add sand. Unfortunately, sand + clay = adobe, more or less.

They plant onion plants and seed potatoes (late for our part of Oklahoma, but better late than never). They sow all their seeds in rows on the same day, planting cool season crops mostly too late, and warm season crops mostly too early. They plant one lone row of corn on either the north or south side of the garden, ensuring poor germination since corn needs to be planted in blocks. They plant squash seeds too close together so the plants that do sprout severly crowd one another. They get poor germination, so they water....and water and water and water, thereby drowning what they do have. They don't hoe or pull weeds either, but might spray the weeds with Round-Up (so, of course, it drifts onto nearby veggies and kills or damages them).

They decide in late April that their garden is basically a weed-filled failure, so they run to the store and buy tomato and pepper transplants--way too many of them--and plant them way too close together. Then they overwater them because they think water is all it takes.

By late June the entire mess is buried under knee-tall bermuda grass, crab grass and Johnson grass, and often that Johnson grass is already several feet tall. And these are the people who tell me that "you can't garden here, stuff doesn't grow here, the weather is too bad, the bugs are too bad", etc. etc. etc. Well, gardening as they practice it does not seem very successful. And, some of them do exactly the same thing time after time, maybe 3 or 4 years in a row, before they give up. I always wonder why they don't do a little research and try to figure out what they are doing wrong, and then correct their practices. All I can think is that they've never read a book about vegetable gardening. If they stop by our garden and ask how I do it, I tell them but then they tend to tell me "that's too much work", so that's their choice, isn't it?

If I had a nickle for every "new" garden that I've seen started and abandoned here as I described above, I'd have a few dollars. And, during that bad wildfire year in 2005-2006, our guys went to a fire or two that was essentially dried-out Johnson grass and corn stalks left in an abandoned vegetable garden plot.

I'm not poking fun at wannabe-gardeners, by the way, just pointing out the half-hearted efforts I've seen and making the point that they are doomed to fail based on the little amount of effort that's gone into them. You get out of gardening what you put into it, and that is only if Mother Nature cooperates and gives you some assistance.

I love the entire gardening process, so I do the whole thing starting with soil improvement, composting, mulching, etc. and I expect good results, whether from trees, shrubs, flowers, herbs, veggies or fruit. I don't always get them, but when I don't get good results, I figure out why and try to correct the situation. The ones who say it can't be done, well, IMHO, they're quitters. That's their choice, of course, but I don't want to listen to them whining and telling me it cannot be done, because I know that it CAN!

Dawn

Oh Dawn,

You're just what the doctor ordered :-).

I really feel better about this. For the first time ever I went outdoors all day at different times to figure out where the sun is in my yard, and for how long. The neighbour has two big trees on either side of the back portion of my yard which tends to be heavily shaded, so I Have to figure out what loves lots of shade.

The places where I do get a good 6 hours of sun has nothing in it right now. For some reason, grass doesn't grow too well there, so I guess it's a soil problem? But we could enrich the soil and make that area into part of the kitchen garden me thinks.

Negative responses and by too many people is hard to stand up to at times. I really felt beaten when I happily showed the results of our herbs so far (they're doing nicely!), and the additional things we are planting. Why can't people be happy for you and just say something like, "I kind of tried gardening but gave up, good for you though?"

By the way, I saved my hanging basket with Petunias. I thought for sure it was gone, but she's back and looking much better. My neighbour told me she would have tossed it out, LOL

Oh Dawn,

You're just what the doctor ordered :-).

I really feel better about this. For the first time ever I went outdoors all day at different times to figure out where the sun is in my yard, and for how long. The neighbour has two big trees on either side of the back portion of my yard which tends to be heavily shaded, so I Have to figure out what loves lots of shade.

The places where I do get a good 6 hours of sun has nothing in it right now. For some reason, grass doesn't grow too well there, so I guess it's a soil problem? But we could enrich the soil and make that area into part of the kitchen garden me thinks.

Negative responses and by too many people is hard to stand up to at times. I really felt beaten when I happily showed the results of our herbs so far (they're doing nicely!), and the additional things we are planting. Why can't people be happy for you and just say something like, "I kind of tried gardening but gave up, good for you though?"

By the way, I saved my hanging basket with Petunias. I thought for sure it was gone, but she's back and looking much better. My neighbour told me she would have tossed it out, LOL

I saved one of your quotes I found here, Dawn I hope you don't mind. Quite poignant I thought, and reflective of most Okie gardeners I hope.
"For me, gardening is not a "job" in which I input "A" (seeds) + "B" soil + "C" (water) to equal "D" (fruit, veggies or flowers). Instead, I approach it as a lifestyle choice.....in which I put in not just the raw materials like seeds, soil and water, but also spirit and enthusiasm and joy, if that makes any sense. To me, gardening is a "journey" that I enjoy each and every step of the way, every day, and not a "destination" where I pressure myself to have "results" to show for all the work and material put into it. Does that make sense? This way, I get the pleasure of gardening, the joy and the fulfillment that comes from "trying" and "learning", whether I have a lot of produce or flowers or not. By making gardening more about the process and less about the results, I think I remove a lot of the pressure, stress and frustration. Do I like it better when I have fruit and veggies to feed my body and flowers to enjoy? Yes, of course. But, the process of gardening feeds my soul even more. So, relax and enjoy the journey, and consider the fruit, veggie or flowers as a "bonus" on top of the joy of gardening."

I smiled to myself as I thought that I wished I could say the same thing. Get down with your bad self!

chef

p.s. I saw a quote that I liked the other day " If you eat, you're involved in agriculture!" .....Nice!

Hi Chef,

You know, I don't mind at all that you saved that paragraph or that you quoted it here.

If you knew me personally, you'd know that paragraph absolutely, positively 100% describes who I am/where I am at/where I'm coming from as a gardener. I will say that in the current weather conditions I am feeling more stress (self-imposed) than usual, but the garden still gives me great joy and fulfillment.

One thing about me that you may not know (unless you've gone backwards in time and read hundreds of old threads) is that I am a cancer survivor (ten years this August) and that certainly has affected my outlook on life in general and gardening in particular. When I find myself stressing over silly things like potato bugs or stink bugs.....or 12" of rain in one day.....I remind myself how precious life is, how happy I am to still be here on this earth, and that everything else is just "small stuff" that doesn't matter in the long run.

Have a wonderful day.

Dawn

Dawn: I didn't know you were a cancer survivor. I am too. Fifteen years ago I was diagnosed with non-Hodgkins lymphoma.

I'm convinced stress is what caused my cancer, so my goal now is to keep my life as stress free as possible.

Lisa

My father died of cancer when I was a teenager, and in those days you didn't use cancer and survivor in the same sentence. His attitude was that someone had to have it, so they could find a cure. I was young and thought that was amazing. I am old, and I still do.

Over 20 years ago I had an automobile accident and had only two injuries. One very small bruise on my arm, and an unstable back fracture. Although I arrived at the hospital on a gurney, no one took it seriously. Even the nurses just kind of ignored me and told me they were putting my high heels on the end of the bed so I would have them when I needed them to go home. After a few tests, they learned that I had a broken back. I had told them this from the time the ambulance picked me up but I wasn't crying and didn't look injured so no one believed me.

Well...you wouldn't believe how those same nurses kicked into gear when they heard it from the doctor. The doctor told my family that I would probably never walk again because my break was in the worst possible place. I had two options. The first was stay in bed for 6 weeks and still maybe have surgery with a poorer success rate, or have surgery then and let them repair what they could.
I had bone fragments floating in my spinal cord. I had surgery and they removed bone from my hip, fused 3 disc together and they put 9 inches of stainless steel down both sides of my spine which immobilized more disc. The only real complication that I had was a reaction to the tube in my throat and I would have choked to death had it not been for a roommate that heard me choking in my sleep and yelled at me loudly enough to make me turn my head, and..........the rest is yucky.

When I awoke, it was very clear to me that I had just made the decision to live. I knew that I had been given a choice, and I said that I wanted to live to raise my children. Once they were grown, I wondered if my contract was over, but it seems He allows me to continue even now. As I contemplated what had happened to me, and thought about this covenant I had made, I knew I had to make "time to smell the roses" in my life. I changed my priorities. So coming from one who made time to "smell the roses", I am thankful for both of you ladies who were allowed to survive cancer to "plant the roses".

I can't bend at the waist,I can't turn without turning my entire body, I will probably always be overweight and out of shape, and I have had to change the way I do a few things, but I can walk. In fact, I can do just about everything I could do before except ride horses and waterski (but love my jet ski). I don't do things in the same way, and I had to learn to be careful, but I am grateful for everyday and try to make the most of it. May we all continue to find joy in growing things and making the world a more beautiful place.

Lisa,

I didn't know you were a cancer survivor either. Mine was breast cancer and, at the time, I wondered if I would live to see my then-15-year-old son finish high school. Clearly I did!

Ditto on the stress and cancer connection. When I was diagnosed, my doctor said it was likely the cancer had been slowly growing in my body for about 7 years. Guess what? Seven years before I was diagnosed I had quit a very stressful job that I'd had for 8 years. I always felt those years of intense pressure contributed to my cancer, and like you I try to live as stress-free as possible.

Even at the time I was going through all the surgeries, my doctors were calm and reassuring and told me I absolutely was going to survive, so their positive attitude helped me a lot....perhaps so much so that I may have taken my recovery somewhat for granted.

In 2005, Tim's best friend was diagnosed with a brain tumor and he lived just two months after that, passing away on my birthday. He and his family had been a huge source of strength for our family when I had cancer, so we tried to fill the same role in their lives during and since that difficult time. Seeing how quickly he deteriorated and how soon we lost him made me realize more than ever before how truly fortunate I was.

Carol, I've always thought you are a remarkable person and now even more so since I know the story of your injury and survival. My grandfather died of leukemia when I was 19 and had battled it for much of my teen years, so I knew what cancer could do to a person and a family. You do so many things, and I am thinking specifically of your sewing and charity work and I know that you have made wonderful use of your "second chance".

I always think of the pioneer women who settled our state (and in that group I absolutely include the native American women who came here too, some willingly and some unwillingly) as tough survivors who helped build the state of Oklahoma. Well, here we are over 100 years later, and we still have a lot of tough survivors continuing to make Oklahoma a great place to live. : )

I've always felt, too, that gardening is the best stress relief, even on "bad days" when gardening itself seems stressful.

Dawn

Wow, Carol, I had no idea you had gone through all of that. You are amazing.

Dawn, I think I have taken mine for granted too. I was pretty young when I was diagnosed, Jackie O died of non-Hodgkin's the week before I had my biopsy (I was reading an article about it while I was waiting for the doctor) and OJ's Broncho chase happened during my first week of chemo. I was the baby of the chemo room. The doctor was always positive I would beat it and once the initial shock wore off, I was good...until my long curly hair fell out :) I always hated my hair before that, now I thoroughly appreciate it. I was never really sick, so I was more blessed than I can even tell you.

Gardening is the one place I can actually be by myself. I never realized how much I needed that. I love flowers, I love giving them away, but the gardening is really just for me. :)

Lisa