Greenman,

Welcome to Oklahoma and also to the Oklahoma Gardening Forum. We are glad you're here.

First of all, I prefer to think of it as "learning" and not as "screwing up". Our climate can be almost unbearably difficult for gardeners because it swings wildly from one extreme to another. On the south side of the house, the heat and sunlight are the biggest challenge you will face.

First of all, do you know what kind of evergreen you have? It matters, because some of them have such dense roots that nothing can grow underneath them. Is it a conifer like an evergreen or pine, or is it a broadleaf evergreen like a holly or something similar?

As far as the plants you've already planted: sometimes liriope can handle the sun exposure/reflected heat on the south side of the house, and sometimes it cannot. I think it has the best chance of survival if you have good soil and keep it moist but not sopping wet. By September you will know it the liriope is going to be able to handle that location, although I do think it will be fine. It may grow quite well but often the foliage scorches in the late July to late August heat. Liriope did well for me in a southern exposure in Fort Worth, Texas, but not here. To be fair, the soil in Texas was better and the summer heat not quite as bad as it is here in southern OK.

Lantana is iffy in our climate and it depends on which one you purchased and what its' parentage is. The old-fashioned (or, to be trendy, I should refer to it as "heirloom") one that is native to mosts of Texas, which is Lantana horrida (the 'horrida' refers to the smell of its foliage) usually dies back to the ground in our climate but often regrows from its roots IF it is in well-drained soil. The other native Texas lantana, Lantana camara, which is native to parts of East Texas, has slightly larger leaves and seems slightly more cold hardy in well-drained soil. Many of the lantanas sold in nurseries are Lantana camara, including 'Dallas Red', 'Confeti' and 'Radiation', but others are Lantana montevidensis, like "Trailing Lavender" and "Weeping White". In your part of the state, I think one that Susanlynne grows comes back reliably, and I believe it is "Miss Huff". Sometimes lantana comes back here for me in southern OK, and sometimes it doesn't. It just depends on how harsh a given winter is.

Lantana goes in and out of flower throughout the growing season, so yours should come back into bloom within a few weeks.

Society garlic is usually only RELIABLY hardy to zone 9, which would be Houston, not OKC. Sometimes it is winter hardy in zone 8, perhaps as far north as Denton, TX, but a colder-than-average winter usually kills it. Some people SAY it is hardy to zone 7, and it might be, but I don't really think so. The issue isn't our "average" winter temperatures because they aren't so bad. The problem is the times that the temperatures drop suddenly from say highs in the 50s/lows in the 30s to perhaps a night in the single digits with a high in the teens. That kind of drastic temperature drop will often take out plants that are marginally hardy in zone 7 or 8.

Lamb's ear tends to be short-lived here unless it is in perfectly well-drained soil and it probably needs a lot of shade in our summer heat, but I do think some people on this forum have had success with it. With this plant, it is the summer that is usually too hard on it, and not the winter.

As for a potted tree, there are probably a few that would work in that location for you in the short term, buy you'll have to have a really large pot for them. Otherwise, their roots will roast in the hot sun. I can't think of many possibilities for an actual tree that would fit the size parameters you need (3'-4' tall and 12-18" wide and both summer and winter-hardy) AND purplish foliage), but some shrubs would. We did recently have a discussion on the identification of some purple-leaved shrubs growing near the Wal-Mart in Claremore. I've linked that discussion below to give you some idea of purple-foliaged plants that grow here. In the ground, many of them get larger than what you are looking for, but in a pot their size would be limited by the size of the root ball that can grow in that pot. Of all the purple foliaged plants, I'd lean towards Smoke Tree, Lorapetalum or Purpleleaf Sand Cherry although they all get wider than you specified. If it seems that all the trees/shrubs would get too big, you might want to go with an ornamental grass.

And, to address the issue of soil improvement, a lot depends on what kind of soil you started out with. In general, bagged potting soil drains poorly and would only be considered an improvement if you have very, very fast-draining sandy or sandy-loam soil that NEEDS something added to it to make it drain more slowly. In general, most soils need more organic material, so when you improve soil in the future, consider adding any of the following: mushroom compost (or any other compost you can find), pine bark fines, composted manure, bagged humus (often labeled as 'soil conditioner') or any combination of the above. Some people add peat moss, but I would only add it in very specfic circumstances....specifically if I was trying to create a suitable environment for azaleas, blueberries and the like, and even then I wouldn't only use peat moss--I'd add pine bark pines and compost in equal amounts.

For what it is worth, most potting soils sold bagged are not even suitable for growing most plants in pots. Randy and I both either buy commercial mixes and add certain ingredients to improve their drainage, or make our own from scratch, as do several other people here on the forum. (Randy's also our tree expert, so maybe if he sees your question he can suggest something that would do well in your container near your sprinkler valves.)

Dawn

Loved your "Home Despot" mention. DH refers to Lowe's as "Highs". LOL Our local Lowe's has very little competition unless we want to drive 50 miles to Tulsa, so they can get away with charging us a little more, he thinks. Still, they are less expensive than the smaller hardware, lumberyard and home improvement stores in our immediate area, so they do get most of our business. --Ilene

I'm not crazy about the Home Despots or Highs of the world (LOL), but at least they ARE here. When we first moved here, it was 60 miles to the nearest one (now it is only 30!), and you miss them and their great selection of stuff, if all you have are small, local lumberyards.

One thing all the big box stores do which I find despicable (and some nurseries do it as well) is that they sell lots of zone 8 and 9 plants to people in zone 7 and DON'T tell inexperienced gardeners that they are NOT cold hardy in our area. To me, that is just unethical. And, if you ask an employee if the plant will survive the winter here, you are likely to get a "yes" even if the correct answer is "no" because many of those garden center employees are NOT gardeners themselves and have no idea what they are talking about.

But, like Ilene, they get our business because they are here. I remember "the old days" when we had a lot of smaller building material stores, like Sutherland's and Payless Cashways and the like. Now, though, except for a few local McCoy's Building Centers, all we have anywhere around here are the big blue stores and the big orange stores.

Dawn

Thanks, folks. All very helpful. I'll just wait and see what happens with the stuff I planted and keep watering it. I'd hate to lose that society garlic. It is thriving in the heat and call me silly but I love the smell.

The soil was actually not bad in that bed - it had been improved by the previous owners and was fairly sandy (I think it was that 99 cent-per bag stuff you get a Lowes that comes from Miami, OK...).

As for the type of evergreen shrub, I honestly don't know. I ran in to a few roots digging around, but not many. I'll try to post a picture. It looks like people are linking to their photobucket accounts to do that so I'll try that when I get home from work (am on lunch).

As for the potted plant, ornamental grass may be the way to go. I remember having pampas grass at my parents when I was a kid. Maybe in a pot with its root confined it wound't get so tall?

Yes, "Highs" (love that) and the Home Despot here in Norman employ a lot college students, esp for summer help. When we first bought our house I added on to our deck out back and was buying some lattice at Lowes. When I asked the 19-year-old girl what isle the lattice was on, she said she didn't know what lattice was. AND SHE WORKED IN THE LUMBER DEPT!!

I love lantana. I live about an hour east of Norman. I plant it every year in large pots. Just before the first predicted freeze I pull it out of the pots and stick it in the ground. Usually part of this planting will come up the next spring.

I have some lantana in the ground that has been returning for about 10 years. The only downside is you have to cut back the dead branches after we get a freeze. You can be organized and do this on a nice day in Nov or Dec or you can do it next spring on that first nice day. Just remember it needs a lot of sun in order to bloom.

One plus of Oklahoma gardening is you can plant pansies on one of those nice days in October after the weather has cooled. They will last thru the winter and continue to bloom thru spring. I put them in pots near my porch so they are easy to water. Unfortunately, they die in our summer heat, but by that time some other flowering plant will take their place.

Good luck with your landscaping.

OK, here's a link to a picture of the area I'm talking about. The evergreen shrub is very visible, as is the large gap that I want to fill with some sort of potted plant (complete with stepping stones leading to the unsightly sprinkler valve, and a larger stepping stone that I added, and on which I would like to place the potted plant). In front you can also see the variegated mokeygrass I planted. To the right of that are the lantanas, and behind those you can make out one of my wilted lambs ears and a couple of the society garlics. Behind it all is my Japanese maple, which is very protected from the elements and is doing quite well. Underneath it, and behind the shrub I have some full shade groundcover--hostas, etc.. that are thriving (not visible).

Everything you see in this picture faces straignt south, so I am taking this picture facing north; to the right is east and left is west. I'm under no illusions that everything I've put here is going to survive, but my dream is for all this to be filled in with lush shades of green, with maybe some specs of red/burgundy to compliment the Japanese maple. (The lantanas were reddish-orange when I planted them a few weeks ago).

Dawn, you seem to be the guru on this forum, so your insight is most appreciated. I'd hate to have to change my username from greenman to brownman!!

Hi Greenman,

Thanks for posting the photo--it really helps to see what you're dealing with so that we can make appropriate recommendations.

The Japanese Maple looks great. Assuming it has been in that location for some time and is doing well there, then I can only assume you have good soil with a good pH, which is nice.

If you want to go with an ornamental grass, as we touched on briefly yesterday, there are many, many of them and some of them have a pinkish or purplish tint to their stems or flowers or both. One of my favorites is pink muhly grass because it has great color and tolerates hot and dry conditions. There are many others, though, and you probably should just go to a nursery and see what appeals to you.

Don't let the "height" and "width" given on plant labels cause you to reject a grass because it will get too big. To a certain extent, you can control the height and width via the selection of the container you'll be growing the grass in. If you keep the same grass in the plant long-term, though, you probably will have to take it out of the pot during the dormant season (shortly before new growth begins) and root prune it annually to keep it from becoming root-bound.

Another plant that might work for you in that location would be one of the dwarf nandinas that have reddish-purplish foliage. Some of them are pretty compact, have great color and stay evergreen. At some points in the growing season they are more greenish with new growth though. They are pretty pest free and that's a plus.

Other plants that could work for you there might be:

An EVERGREEN daylily (Hemerocallis hybrids), esp. one with purple flowers if you want it to sort of coordinate with the Japanese Maple(not all daylilies are evergreen, so choose carefully).

Japanese Maiden Grass (Miscanthus sinensis). There are many different named ones available. The smallest one I can think of is "Adagio", which gets about 2' tall and 2' wide, although it would stay smaller in a container than in the ground. "Morning Light" gets slightly larger, but has very slender white-striped leaves so it would blend really well with your variegated liriope.

For a minute, I toyed with the idea of Red Yucca (Hesperaloe parviflora) because it is very drought and heat tolerant and has a beautiful arching habit, and lovely coral-to-pink flowers. Then, I decided it probably would be too large for that area AND probably too spikey....assuming you have to get to those sprinkler valves periodically.

You could put just about any heat-tolerant shrub or ornamental grass in that location. Perennials probably wouldn't do as well because most of them lose their leaves in the winter and it would look sort of bare. Most trees would get too large.

If it were me, and I wanted a permanent plant, I think I would go with a tall, spikey plant like an ornamental grass, a yucca or an agave. All of them would provide a nice contrast to the rounded form of the shrubs.

If you want to partially hide the container, you could underplant your ornamental grass with something (probably an annual, although a few perennials come to mind) that would creep and hang over the edge....something like purple heart (Setcreasea pallida) which is a succulent and doesn't need much water, or maybe something like ornamental sweet potato..."Marguerite" has chartreuse foliage, there are several different ones, including "Blackie" that have dark purplish-black foliage, and there are some variegated ones as well.

In a difficult south-facing location, it may take some time and some trial and errot to discover what can take our heat. If the lantanas prove not to be perennial, and you'd rather not replant something in that location every year, any one of the various sedums, which are succulents that handle heat well with very little irrigation, would work. The sedum family is huge and there are upright forms and creeping forms, and some have purple flowers and some have purplish foliage. Artemesias have silver foliage and might be a good replacement for the poor little lambs ear that I think probably will burn up in the August heat, if indeed it makes it that far.

And, thank you so much for the lovely "guru" comment.....it made me blush. However, there are MANY gurus here, and I would list them all for you but fear I might accidentally leave someone off the list and offend that person which would distress me terribly. We have so many talented, knowledgeable gardeners on this forum and I continue to learn something new from them each and every day, which is one of the many things I love about this forum.

I hope you will keep us posted on what you decide to do and on the results. Here on this forum, we know that gardening in Oklahoma can be especially challenging due to our brutal summer heat and wildly unpredictable weather. I think we all enjoy helping one another work through the endless challenges.....and you can always come here for lots of "tea and sympathy" when your landscape gets pounded by any and all of the following: hail of all sizes, extremely high winds, torrential downpours, ice storms, tornadoes, swarms of grasshoppers or wildfires. (Thankfully, not all in the same day......)

Happy gardening,

Dawn

Thanks again for the advice, Dawn. I can tell I'll be coming to this forum a lot, and I'll keep you posted on my gardening endeavors. We also have a huge backyard that the previous owners pretty much left bare, except for the lawn, so I have all kinds of opportunities. Hopefully gardening on the north side of the house won't be as challenging...

Greenman (And I do not think you'll ever have to change your name to "Brownman"),

Gardening on the north side of the house will be a piece of cake compared to the south side!

Dawn

I guess this post is primarily for Dawn, but I welcome all insight. OK, after searching around, I think that a barberry shrub in a container might be good to hide the path to my sprinkler valves--mainly for the color and (hopefully) ease of growing. I would probably let it get a bit "dangly" (like I've seen them in some places) so as to contrast with the rounded evergreen shrub. It would draw in with the Japanese Mapel and the virginia creeper that I plan to put on the SE corner of the house. Barberrys seem to be hardy and heat tolerant, but will planting it in a container in such an (southern) exposed area create complicaitons? Also, I suspect that I will have to periodically fertilize it in a container (vs. if I planted it in the ground. Also, what about frost damage in a container? I suppose it matters what kind of container I acquire...

I know there are several varieties of barberry that turn purple-ish-burgundy in the late summer/fall. Any suggestions? Dwarf variety, so it won't get too wide? Other shrubs that might work?

Greenman,

I love barberry and it is a very tough shrub. I think it is hardy down to zone 4 or 5, so it shouldn't freeze in OKC, even if it is in a container. Even in the summer months, as long as it is well watered (moist but not soggy), it should be able to take the heat.

Normally, when a plant is kept in a container above ground level, you consider it to be growing one zone colder than the zone it is in. So, in zone 7, a container plant is exposed to zone 6 winter conditions since the container does not insulate as well as the ground.

However, one concern I have about barberyy is that it can be thorny and that might (or might not) be a problem, depending on how often you have to access those sprinkler valves. Look at one in a nursery, public park, or landscaped area near a mall and check out the "thorniness" of it before you buy it. After all, I don't want you yelling at me later if you're moving it and it sticks or pricks you and hurts you. (smile)

Finally, I said above that "normally" a plant is considered one zone colder in winter if it is growing above grade in a container, but there is an exception. Well, there's two. First, I said "normally" and it seems like nothing is "normal" in Oklahoma weatherwise, so I hate even using that word. Secondly, sometimes our weather can plunge 30 or 40 degrees in just a few hours when an arctic cold front comes rolling down across the Great Plains. In those conditions, a plant in a container might suffer freeze damage, even to the point of freezing to death. This occurs because plants usually have a gradual cool down and adjust to colder temperatures over time which helps them to survive. If a sudden "blue norther" blows in and the temperature drops drastically, plants often can't handle that sudden change. The same thing is true of plants in the ground as well. Therefore, you have to be sure to either move it into the garage if a "blue norther" is expected or water it well (dry roots freeze faster) and maybe wrap a blanket or quilt around the container that day or night.

I think "Crimson Pygmy" barberry would be a terrific one for you, or "Helmond Pillar" if you decide you want one that has a strongly vertical presence.

I linked a page that has photos of both, and several other barberries as well.

Dawn

Greenman!

I'm a fellow Nebraskan, grew up in Bellevue. Don't miss the winters!! You're really going to LOVE December and January here! :)) You'll think you were in the tropics compared to Omaha!

Oklahoma gardening is challenging, but the challenge is why we keep doing it. Dawn's information is always right on target, she's been a huge help to several of us here on the forum.

Just wanted to say "Welcome to OKC!!"

Courtney

Thanks again, Dawn. We're off to the nursery to have a look at barberrys and containers. Of course, I'd never "yell" at you if I got stuck by a thorny bush that you gave me advice on. :) My hands and arms are already all buggered-up anyway so a few thorn injuries won't be a big deal.

Thanks for the welcome, Courtney. Yes, I remember those Nebraska winters all too well. One of the last years I lived there we had a foot of snow a week for 3 straight weeks... ALthough I must say, the ice storm we had here in Dec wreaked much more havoc that snow in Neb ever did! Then again, it was 45 out the next day.

Finally, we got an inch of rain this morning, so I don't have to water tomorrow! I was so happy I jumped out of bed, ran outside and did a little celebratory dance in the backyard in my boxers...then the hail came. Ouch! Haha!!

GM

GM,

Well, you could yell at me if you wanted, and I think I could handle it. (smile)

What Courtney didn't tell you is that she did an amazing job landscaping and gardening at her new home last year and is a wonderful contributor to this forum as well.

We've had a few sprinkles here this evening but not enough stuff to qualify as rain. We're hoping for more as the evening progresses.

And, I wish we could have seen the happy dance! I hope the hail was minor and didn't damage anything.

Dawn

Dawn - you give me WAY too much credit! I just watched DH dig holes, and then I put things in the ground. I don't think I could have done it without the forum helping me along the way. You've been a terrific asset for me! I don't run to my "Western Gardner" book anymore, now I run to the computer :)

GM - The ice storms are a bit hard to get used to, so is driving in OKC! It's all about pole position here! Watch your flanks!!

Courtney

So perhaps my comment about a "celebratory dance" bordered on hyperbole, but I was happy to have the rain, nonetheless, and managed to get sopping wet as I wondered throughout my back yard. Needless to say, DW thought I had lost my mind as I sprinted in from the hail! It was minor--pea sized--and didn't do damage, thankfully.

Went to nurseries today - found a great container, but nobody seems to have the helmond pillar barberry Dawn recommended that decided I would like (I like the vertical presence). I will check out some more nurseries in the coming days, but was wondering...if I have no luck locally, has anyone had experience buying plants online? Lots of cool stuff from online nursuries. Wondering how they ship the stuff...?
Thanks so much - you guys are great. (Sorry, I know you are technically not "guys," but I can't yet bring myself to say "y'all." Call me a stubborn mid-westerner... Give me time) ;)

Courtney,

C'mon woman, give me a break! And, while you are at it, give yourself and DH a lot of credit for what y'all have accomplished. I KNOW how hard you worked to determine which plants were right for your location. You asked questions, did your research, asked more questions, looked hard to find the right stuff, and did it all while dealing with a DH and your sweet kids AND, remember, the little man was at a very difficult age last summer. Now, you continue to do it with a young dog to train and corral! It is not an "accident" or "luck" that the plants y'all put in those holes have survived and thrived. YOU and DH did that together and you should be proud.

Greenman,

I like hyperbole. Often, I will announce to anyone who is interested that "I am doing the happy dance....." because it rained, or the tomatoes ripened, or whatever.....and people here understand. It seems that a lot of our gardening news is "bad" (no rain, too much rain, too much wind, ice, etc.), so good news is always an occasion for the happy dance. : )

With mail order/online nurseries, there is a wide range of experiences. Some of them are great. Some of them are not. Before you purchase from a specific company, mention them by name here, and see what kind of feedback you get. Some send large, healthy plants in sturdy, well-watered pots and others send twigs that supposed to be "whips" that are "guaranteed to grow", but they don't. So, ask before you order and we'll tell you if we've been happy with a particular company. Most of the companies I have found to send good plants that are well-packaged tend to be those that have higher prices, so I think in the online or mail order gardening world, you definitely get what you pay for.

Different companies send plants in different ways. In the summer, I would ONLY buy those that are shipped in containers, not bare rooted. Most of them have their root balls held into the pots using various methods. Some of them are wrapped in paper, excelsior, moss or plastic and have various kinds of inserts to hold the containers in place in the shipping boxes.

And, I suppose we answer to both "you guys" and "y'all" here because we're just a happy, easy-going bunch. We'll make an Okie out of you yet, make no mistake about it. One day you will wear your "Okie-ness" like a badge of honor because Okies are good people who have large hearts and who are survivors. Some day, you'll be saying "y'all" as much or more than "you guys" and you'll realize it has happened--the midwesterner has morphed into an Okie. Trust me. It will happen. (smile)

Dawn

Oh, come on, now, ease into it by saying "You all". LOL

I have bought plants from mail-order nurseries and they have worked for me about as well as the plants in pots bought at local nurseries. The mail-order nurseries tend to ship the plant bare-root. This looks a little scarey when you open up the package. Usually they're sealed in plastic with just a little bit of moisture. You don't want to unseal that plastic till you have something wet to put the roots in because they will dry out lightning fast once exposed to air.

Gurney's and Fields always have a spring promotion where if you buy $20 worth of something you can get $20 additional with their coupon. That's usually when I buy plants. I've been having a terrible time getting blueberry plants from local stores to stay alive. Those little puppies are just too darn little. And they put them in a big bag with a lot of sawdust to make you think you're getting a bigger plant. I just hate marketing ploys like that. Buy a big jar of something only to open it and find the contents have all settled into the bottom 1/4 of the jar. Oh, don't get me started on this.

But anyway, I guess I'll be ordering blueberries this coming spring.

The problem I have with the local nurseries is that they have the plants so full of chemical fertilizer that they kind of go into shock when they get in the ground. I don't so much have that problem with bare root plants and I think this is because I follow a "tonic" recipe from a Jerry Baker book that I have. I will find it and post it for you.

There's an old saying my brother-in-law used to use all the time till it got to be a joke for the rest of us: "I don't care what you call me, just don't call me late to supper!" --Ilene

I hope I'm not breaking any copyright laws by giving you Jerry Baker's recipe. If so maybe he will commute my sentence because I'm going to give his book a serious plug here.

The book is called "Jerry Baker's Old-Time Gardening Wisdom". In the book, he talks about his earliest Oklahoma memories of his grandmother and all the things she taught him about gardening. Even if you're not going to garden, it's a good read. But if you ARE going to garden there is a lot of great information in it.

This is his Root Tonic, found on page 344: 1 Tbsp liquid dish soap, 1/4 cup of tea (I assume this is loose tea leaves and not brewed tea. I use 3 or 4 teabags), 1 Tbsp Epsom Salt. Mix into a gallon of water and soak the bare root plant up to 24 hours.

Forgive me, Jerry.

You may have to double or triple the recipe,depending on the size of your plant. He does not say to do so, but when I place the plant in the soil, I always pour some of the mixture that it soaked in into the hole instead of plain water. It has worked really well for me. I even soaked my Candy Onion plants in it, although only for a couple hours! P.U., the water smelled quite onioney and I was afraid maybe I'd made a big mistake, but they took right off growing and this is the first year I have EVER successfully grown onions. --Ilene

Greenman,

Give this nursery a try! They were a wholesale tree farm servicing commercial landscapers, etc. Just a couple months ago they opened the nursery, but 100% of their products are available for retail now. They have some unique trees and shrubs.

Foster's Nursery And Tree Farm
7600 S.W. 119th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73173 Map
(405) 745-3500

GREAT people to work with!!

BTW - When you start saying "Fixin to..." then you know you've been converted into an Okie!

Dawn, Thank you for reminding me of all the work we did last year! It's so easy to forget what all we've accomplished since we look at it all day long :) WOW! I thought I was working hard this year maintaining all of it, now to put it in perspective... I'm having a really lazy summer. LOL!

Courtney

Courtney,

Oh, gosh, how could you forget!

And, remember the workmen who were fixing a wall or something and trampling plants? And the termites eating your sedum? Oh, and Little Man watering the plants....in his own unique way? It really was a VERY memorable summer. LOL

Dawn

LOL!!! Little man still like to pretended he's a fireman, but I have him aiming at the flowerbeds now as gopher repellent :)) DH isn't convinced that it keeps the gophers away, but I told him I read it here, so it must work. :) And, no gophers in his "favorite" spot, now I just have to get him to work his way around the perimeter of the yard!

The hydrangea that they trampled is now about 3 feet tall, and blooming wonderfully!

The termites, I just keep crossing my fingers on that one! I was thinking about adding some DE to the soil around the house. They can have the sedum (which came back this year very strong) but they can't have my house!

You're soooo right, we have had lots of fun here. DH has orders to go back to San Diego, but it'll mean lots of overseas time for him, so I think the kids and I are going to stay here. Come Dec/Jan, I'll be ready to go, but when everything starts turning green again there's no place I'd rather be. You Okie's have kinda grown on me :)))

Courtney

Courtney,

The only thing that has worked for us on the gophers is the cats. Cats are really good at exterminating them. If gophers are not in his favorite spot, you could argue that it is working, couldn't you?

It's great that the hydrangea recovered and is blooming. What a difference a year makes.

Have you seen any more termites? I'm kind of thinking that they might have been driven up into your yard from elsewhere due to all the rain? And, if so, maybe they have gone back to where they came from.

I am happy to hear that you and the kids are going to stay put. After all the time and effort y'all put into the house and the yard, I couldn't imagine how it would feel to leave it! I am sure it will be a hardship to have DH in SD and y'all here, but if he is going to be overseas a lot, then why not?

Oklahoma does have a way of growing on you and so does its warm and friendly people. : )

Dawn

Thanks for the suggestion re nurseries, Courtney, though I managed to find a helmond pillar barberry at Marcums down off the I-35 Goldsby exit - a 2-gallon plant that is about 18-inches high right now. I was so thrilled, until DW vetoed the container we purchsed over the weekend. (For what it's worth, she was right.) So after returining it, we now have the opposite problem: a plant and no container!

So my next pesky question: how to pot it. Container will probably be 18" across the top, perhaps 24" or so high, and made of clay/ceramic of some sort. (Suggestions welcome on this too, btw). The one we returned today was a sort of clay/ceramic "hybrid". Clay ones at The Greenhouse here in Norman are EXPENSIVE!--$150 to $200 for a decent-looking and appropriate-sized one. And I promise DW will veto "icky orange" terra cotta. I assume the plastic containers (a la Home Despot) are not good for winter protection and will probably fade in the sun.

Any soil mix, recommendations for the potted helmond pillar? Probably a few inches of gravel on the bottom for drainage, at least, no? Think I ought to try Ilene's tonic suggestions, since it was purchased in a container?

I rather enjoyed the "fireman" discussion above. I must be a child at heart, b/c ever since owning our own home I rather enjoy "going back to nature" from time to time out back. DW accuses me of attmepting to establish a "p*ss permimeter." Haha! Maybe I am! You can take the boy off the farm but you can't take the farm out of the boy, I guess...

Thx,
GM

GM,

Us girl's just don't understand "the call of the wild" that overcomes men, but we tolerate it nonetheless. I support it, only as gopher repellent! (I would say yes, since the gophers have avoided his favorite spot, there's prrof it works!)

I'm sure you are a little stronger than I am, but I couldn't go with a clay/ceramic pot, especially with a tree that needs moved from time to time! There is a "nursery" on SW 24th Street & Hwy 9 in Norman, I'm not sure what they are called, but they seem to have a very good selection of pots and accessories.

I have a couple of Majesty Palms that I put in the plastic, $5 Home Depot pots, and then used a can of Krylon to get the color that I wanted. I used the plastic because DH is military and sometimes deployed, so I have to be able to move the pots on my own, and the clay/ceramic are just too heavy for me to handle. I painted mine dark brown, and they get full sun all day, the color hasn't faded at all, as far as durability during the winter I couldn't help you, the palms don't get to stay outside when it gets below 50 degrees. Would it really make a difference though? Ceramic and clay conduct temperature very well, so would they really add much protection from the temperature drop. I'm have no idea what zones the tree can grow in, but if it could grow in a zone 5, I would guess that it would be okay in either plastic or ceramic. Dawn could definately answer more specifically, but I read somewhere that for potted plants to go 2 zones colder than where you live to get the best results.

Dawn,

Growing up in Nebraska, Oklahoma was the LAST place I ever thought I would want to live, but it's pretty comfortable here. Our yard is nowhere near the size of your spread, we've only got an acre, leaving here would mean another 17' x 54' backyard, with neighbors 5 ft away on each side. The desire to go back has totally left me.

It's funny, all the plants I had there stayed green and blooming year round Bouganvilla, Mandevilla, Banana Trees, Queen palms, Pindo Palms, Majesty Palms, Hibiscus.... but there wasn't much of a challenge! I have enjoyed gardening so much more here, having to battle the soil, wind, rain, hail, more wind, freezes, scores of bugs.... The rewards are greater becuase the work is harder! Tonight we sat on the patio and watched a couple hummingbirds tripping around the flowerbeds, and the fennel has TONS of BST cats on it, we've even got a cocoon on the kitchen counter waiting for the magic moment... Funny that Cali has such a reputation for it's environmentalism, but we had to move to Oklahoma to actually experience a natural environment.

Courtney

GM,

I'm excited you found the Helmond Pillar barberry locally and didn't have to order one and have it shipped during the summer heat.

There are many attractive containers available. If you get a clay/ceramic one, be sure it can handle wild temperature swings without cracking or flaking.

I like the fairly new poly-resin pots or the fiberglass-poly pots. The quality ones (not the $25.00 ones from Wal-Mart) are supposed to be long-lasting. They are lightweight so they are easy to move, and they come in all kinds of gorgeous finishes. One of them probably would be my first choice.

I also love the look of cedar planters. They are so pretty!

I grow tons of plants in plastic pots, but I am in zone 7B....and our winters here are more like zone 8 than zone 7 about 95% of the time.

I've linked a website that sells all kinds of containers. I'm not really suggesting you order online, because I am sure you'd rather find something local more quickly. But, I thought that looking at the website might give you some ideas about what is "out there".

As far as what soil mix to use in containers, we've discussed that topic quite a bit this year. Just do a search of this forum using the key words container potting soil or mix or something similar, and it should pull up the previous threads. If the search feature fails, let me know and I'll find a previous thread and bump it up to the top of the page.

Courtney,

I think I couldn't live in a climate where you could garden year-round because I'd just completely wear myself out--I need downtime in the winter to recover from a long growing season of chores.

I love the changing of the seasons...spring and fall are my two favorite seasons.

And, watching all the wild critters that share your environment is just the most fun, isn't it? I love to sit out on the patio and watch the hummers, purple martins, doves, bats, dragonflies, butterflies, moths, etc. in the evening hours.

I know parts of Cali are GORGEOUS and most people would give their right arm to live there, but the cost of living is sky-high there and the environment can be cruel. I wouldn't leave Oklahoma to live anywhere else, even California, even though I know it is a beautiful state. Between the earthquakes and the wildfires, I don't think my nerves could handle living there. LOL

Dawn

Dawn,

San Diego is beautiful, but the freak to normal person ratio is much higher there! I never felt safe in the malls, I didn't like my daughters walking to their friend's house by themselves... I was just a very nervous Mom when we lived there.

I personally would prefer an earthquake to a tornado though. The news people find out about at the same time as everyone else, so they don't have 3 hours of special alerts to hype up the situation and scare everyone half to death.

The funny thing that they don't have there... lightening and thunder! A little further north and furthr east of San Diego does, but the SD area was void of thunderstorms the entire time we lived there. I don't know why, I'm sure there's an explanation for it, but for me it was just creepy... likes something wasn't right.

Courtney

GM,

Also look at Garden Ridge. They have some fairly good prices on clay ceramic and resin (plastic). If you visit their website you can locate a store, I know there's on in OKC off I40 and MacArthur, but I don't know if there's one in Norman. They have containers 25-50% off this week.

Courtney

Courtney,

Your comment "The freak to normal person ratio is much higher there...." had me rolling on the floor. I can understand how "normal" Oklahoma must seem when compared to some of the parts of California that are sort of "out there".

I have mixed feelings on the tornado hype. An excellent meteorologist in the D-FW area was recently "let go" after a pretty long career there and rumor had it that she was fired for refused to over-hype the dangerous weather. But, I admire some of the things they can do.....like tell you minute by minute when a storm they are tracking is going to hit your community....at least you know approximately how many minutes you have left to get yourself and your family into a sheltered location.

No lightning and thunder? I never knew that. How odd.

See....just more reasons for you to remain an Oklahoma gardener instead of a California gardener.

Dawn

Thanks gals. I'm confident I can at least "slide" a ceramic/clay container, but even though they look very elegant, I just don't think the price is worth it. I like Dawn's poly-fiberglass idea, so I may go that route. The place on SW 24th and Highway 9 in Norman is "The Greenhouse," where I spotted containers the size I need for $200 (and up to $1500 for really big ones!! Not on my salary!)

I too am finding life in OK very rewarding, and ditto on the spring and fall seasons. Summer is wicked hot and winters, although mild, can be treacherous, as we found out in Dec. Fall here is absolutely divine, and I love that spring starts in early March!

Courtney is right about no T-storms on the coasts (at least compared to the middle part of the country. I used to live in Virginia and while it rained a lot, we never had good ole' fashioned thunderstorms, which I missed terribly, having grown up in KS. I have this urge to be woke up at 3 am by cracks of thunder and lighting, so I can go outside and watch the rain and do my "happy dance." Strangely enough, I studied in Holland for a brief stint and while it literally rained daily there in the summer, they didn't have thunderstorms either. But, if you think Cali is full of "freaks," try Amsterdam! :) I like all different kinds of people, though, so I embraced it. All I had to do to feel at home was take a drive in the country to see the infinite flatness and plethora of cows!

Later,
GM

GM,

Lots of people who do big-time container gardening are in love with the new poly-fiberglass and poly-resin containers because they give you the classic look of majestic urns and pots without the incredible weight and expense that often accompanies them.

I'm glad you're finding life in OK rewarding. We only moved 80 miles from Ft. Worth to here, and guess what we discovered? To our amazement, we found we had moved 80 miles north so we could be colder in the winter (which was expected) AND hotter in the summer (totally unexpected!). We joke now about what poor planning that was on our part!

I would miss the thunderstorms! One of my favorite things about Oklahoma weather is the "thundersnow", which I think we've experienced here at least three times.....it is just like a thunderstorm with thunder and lightning, but with snow instead of rain. Until we moved here, I never knew such a thing existed. The brutal ice storms usually miss us here in extreme southcentral Oklahoma, although one several years ago literally stopped halfway through Love County, so the northern part of the county had some damage but the southern part didn't. The closest damage to us was a mile or two away, and major damage was about 3 miles away.

During the 2005 and 2006 drought/wildfires that plagued this state, we went months without a thunderstorm here, and it was AWFUL. Aside from the dryness, trees dying, pastures burning, etc., and the exhaustion of having up to five wildfires in one day, I just flat missed the thunderstorms and wondered when we'd ever have one again. I remember that when we finally had a thunderstorm, EVERYONE sat outside on porches and covered patios and watched it rain....at least until a lightning strike ignited a barn full of hay and sent several fire departments racing in that direction. We watched as the frogs came out of the pond and sat in the rain. It was funny. (And the lily pond only had water in it because we kept filling it with the hose to keep it from drying up. We'd even moved fish from the creek to the pond as the creek dried up.) Later, talking to the next door neighbors, we found out they all had been sitting outside watching the rain and lightning and frogs....just like us. We laughed and decided that we all were "easily amused", but we sure were glad to have that thunderstorm! (And we didn't have another one for several months, either.)

Keep us posted how what kind of lovely container you buy and I hope you'll post a photo and show us how it looks!

Dawn

GM,

Your travels make me think that you may be or might have been in the Navy. DH is a sailor. So am I right?

Courtney

Dawn,
Oh boy...gonna need that thread re potting mixes pulled up. I'm getting advice from all over the place. I want to keep it basic for the container helmond pillar, and with as little repotting as possible. In some searches, I came across a basic mix suggestion for potted shrubs: 1 part soil mix, 2 parts composted fine pine. Whaddya think?

Courtney,
Not quite, but I suppose you are close. I'm a professor and teach/work in international security and military affairs...not brave enough to actually join the military, and certainly educated beyond my intelligence.

Professor Greenman,

I just want to say that I SO admire the work you do.....and want you to know that we absolutely do need people like you teaching just as much as we need the folks who serve in the armed forces! So, thanks for what you do because it, too, is am important part of our maintaining our national security.

Now, about the container mix. On the previous thread, which I have linked below, I describe for Carol and other interested persons how I use a version of Al's Mix from the container forum to grow some veggies (ESPECIALLY early tomatoes planted in late January to early Feb. and harvested in April!) in containers. There is nothing wrong with Al's Mix as discussed on the Container Forum (it's a great mix and many people successfully use it), but I just tweaked it a little to keep it organic and oriented towards veggie growing.

Randy, who is our MOST EXPERT container, tree and greenhouse grower, also describes his mix in a separate thread that I haven't found yet, but I'll keep looking for it and link it as well. I think his mix might work better for you since you'll be planting a shrub and not veggies. If you were to use my organic container mix, I'd use Espoma Holly-Tone or Plant-Tone as the fertilizer for the mix because it contains trace elements (micronutrients).

So, I've linked the previous thread for you and hope it helps.

Dawn

Greenman,

I found the previous thread where Randy mentioned his mix and linked it below. I think Randy's mix recipe is the first response to the questions posed by Kirts.

Dawn

You make me blush, Dawn. I suspect my work is a bit more dispensable than that of our men and women in uniform, but thanks. The biggest challenge I face is getting through to 18-23 year-olds... And, of course, growing a garden in Oklahoma!