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martieinct

Has Anyone in New England Grown ......

martieinct
18 years ago

Akebia trifolia. How tall will it climb and will it be powerfully destructive like Wisteria?

Mahonia nervosa. Can this be trained upright? If not, how much does it spread?

Coriaria sinica. As a ground cover?

Thanks! in advance for any insights.

Martie

Comments (16)

  • rockman50
    18 years ago

    My neighbor has an Akebia. Its the only one I have ever seen. It is nothing like wisteria. It will not aggressively attempt to detach the roof from your house. It seems like a fairly benign grower. This might sound strange, but apparently some Akebias are "right handed" and some are "left handed", meaning that some will grow only in one preferred direction and some the other. Maybe somebody with more knowledge about this can confirm.

  • ego45
    18 years ago

    Akebia trifolia/trifoliata is as hardy as A. quinata (z5), however it blooms earlier and therefore much more vulnerable to March frosts than her 5-leaved counterpart. It may or may not bloom reliably unless planted in somewhat sheltered location while quinata will bloom notwithstanding of anything.
    In years when it will bloom, flowers are more showy and seedpods are probably 25-30% larger than those of quinata (4-5" vs 3-4"). Same vigor. Could grow 8-10' in a single season. I wasn't able to detect a scent in neither one of them.
    Another advantage of 5-l vs 3-l I could think of is that quinata stays green till after the Christmas and almost fully green again in a late March, while trifoliata droping leaves in early December.

    All those comparisons made by observation of quinata in my garden and trifoliata in a neigbor's one.

    Akebia quinata 'Silver Bells'

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  • ego45
    18 years ago

    One more thing.
    Akebia vs Wisteria.
    It's probably not as 'powerfully destructive' as wisteria is, but I would be hesitant to plant it near a house as I remember reading a horror story(ies) on a Vine Forum where people discovered akebia growing in their ...living rooms and closets via attick.
    It's a twining, not a clinging vine, so it would need something to twine around.

  • ego45
    18 years ago

    I don't have a first hand experience with Mahonia nervosa, but grow M. bealei which is little bid more tender than nervosa, but still bloom for me in February-March. This particular one is naturally upright and could be even trained into a small multitrunk tree. Actually, it will train itself in a such form since evergreen leaves emerging from the body of unbranched stems and dies in a 2-3 year thus leaving bare trunks with a whorles of handsome leaves only on a top 1/2 to 1/3 of the plant. If you'd remove younger shots/suckers that creating greenery in a lower part of the plant you'll achieve a 'small tree' look.
    Could be (and probably should be) grown in a fairly deep shade protected from the winter winds.
    If you'll be visiting Oliver nursery in Fairfield one day, stop by and look at their M. bealei thicket on a right side of the entrance.

  • martieinct
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    Was thinking of using M. nervosa as an espalier on the east side of the house, southern end. Morning sun 'til about 10am in April and little winds given location of woods. Sounds like it might be a good choice to try given George's description.

    The Akebia will go on the same wall of the house but on the northern end. Afternoon sun. I'm really tempted to try the A. trifolia and if it doesn't work, go for the A. quinata. The only one I've seen in bloom was in Z8ish and the frangrance was outstanding. After personal experience with Clematis montana and hearing about A.'s through-the-cracks growing, it will be sited on a garage/garage corner, nowhere near living. Thus, if I need to hack and pull, I can hack and pull.

    Am trying to take advantage of my new zone, and look forward to hearing more.

    Martie

  • ginny12
    18 years ago

    I have an Akebia quinata and here's the story. A friend gave me a small piece, warning me of its vigor. It completely covered the back of her house by twining around architectural bits. I planted mine in terrible soil in back of my house. It grows many feet a season and every few years we chop it back to the ground.

    It will twine around anything that stands still. The flowers are very small and not showy but the foliage is extremely attractive--everyone asks me about it. Completely healthy with absolutely no pests or diseases.

    Now here's the true but amazing story which I have posted here before: One morning some years ago, I walked into a room of my home with my morning coffee. Something on my left waved at me at about eye level. I looked--and it was akebia! It had grown--crept stealthily, I might say--from its location in the sun all the way under the deck in almost dark and then up the chimney. Then it somehow got thru the place where the chimney emerged from the floor of the room, even tho no crack is visible. Then it grew up the chimney, behind the secretary, til it got to 5' high, then grew sideways til I finally saw it. I took a lot of photos--pre-digital, sorry--just to prove my story if I ever had to.

    It's easy to cut back and pretty enough to keep--plus it gave me a great story.

  • ego45
    18 years ago

    Again, I don't have any experience with M. nervosa, but if it somewhat resemble M.bealei I don't think this plant is suitable for espalier due to its completely unpliabliable canes.
    On the other hand, Five leaf aralia (Acanthopanax sieboldianus/Eleutherococcus 'Variegatus') would be a perfect plant for a space except it's not evergreen.
    I'm myself don't have a spot where I could grow it as an espalier, but if I would, I'd not even think twice to do it.
    Now I'm growing it as a shrub and very pleased with results. (Special note: beware of the rabbits and deers, they like it.)

  • Cady
    18 years ago

    After reading Ginny's story, I want Akebia... to cover the ugly chain link fence. Sounds like it's the plant for that.

  • rockman50
    18 years ago

    Can both varieties be planted in full sun?

  • ginny12
    18 years ago

    It would be very interesting to try akebia on chain link. It has a lovely, graceful texture and could be gorgeous. But you would probably have to keep trimming back the vertical shoots. And, of course, not stand still near it.

  • ego45
    18 years ago

    rockman, if you are talking about akebia, yes, both varieties could be planted in full sun.
    In such position you might have a chance to grow one of the large clematises over it if you'd like to have a flowering vine since akebia's flowers are short leaved and mostly hided by the foliage.
    IMO, for the full sun position in z6b you have much better choices than akebia, though for the part shade it's one of the best vines.
    BTW, another big plus of akebia is that while it's not a fully deer-proof plant, it's not their favorite either. Considering the fast growing rate only the lower 4-5' of it MIGHT be succeptible to deer's damage and only in a spring when young shoots are green and juicy.

    "And, of course, not stand still near it [for more than a 10 minutes]."

    How true. :-)))

  • diggingthedirt
    18 years ago

    A great vine for morning sun or part shade in zone 6 is winter jasmine (Jasminium nudiflorum). Yellow flowers in February - March, green stems all year. Since it's not a twiner, it won't damage shingles or other siding.

    It does need to be trained/tied to a support, but that is very easily done. I would not be without this plant now that I've grown it.

    I also grow Carolina Jessamine, (Gelsemium sempervirens), which is nearly evergreen, but it seems to be quite a thug here, scaling the downspouts and trying to infiltrate around the windows. It's going to be moved to the far corner of the yard where it can duke it out with the other thugs.

    Martie, what's been your experience with Clematis Montana? It behaves well here, but it's on a cedar fence, nowhere near the house. The only drawback I've seen with C. Montatna is that I have sometimes mistaken it for the invasive sweet autumn C and have accidentally murdered it. It's also got a fairly short flowering season, but I do love those pink flowers when it's in bloom.

  • Cady
    18 years ago

    The Carolina jessamine I put in two years ago is barely beginning to climb, despite its healthiness. Should I be wary when it gets to the "third year leap"?

  • martieinct
    Original Author
    18 years ago

    The C. montana was planted on the south east side of a three-season porch trellised to grow "south." It grew through small spaces in the screened windows and through a hole that woodpeckers had created. That was manageable, but ...

    After I left that house and it was not attended to at all, I was shown a picture of it blooming quite freely *inside* the porch. I think it was a matter of perfect conditions :-)

    I put it there because I needed something fragrant for the few weeks it bloomed until the roses kicked in which were on the south side of the porch. The vanilla fragrance is outstanding. I'd grow it again, but chose a place where woodpeckers don't go.

    Martie

  • diggingthedirt
    18 years ago

    Oh, Martie, I haven't even noticed the C Montana fragrance, probably because it blooms along with several nearby Viburnum. Next year I'll check where that great scent is coming from - thanks for the tip!

    >Should I be wary when it gets to the "third year leap"?

    Only if it's within shouting distance of a downspout or shingles; mine was caught in the act working its way beneath some shingles on one wall of my home.

    I hear it is very amenable to being cut back, and I plan to do that in spring in order to move it. I planted it on a nice old iron trellis, but it needs a bigger support and needs to be placed farther from the house. I'm hoping to root the cuttings too, though I may be imagining that I'd read that it's easy to do that.

  • Cady
    18 years ago

    That's a relief. Mine is right by a long chain link fence that I'm trying to "bury" with a combination of kiwi vine, clematis, jessamine and grape.