Excellent topoic for discussion!

For me, I believe that if Mother Nature created viburnum, winterberry, and evergreen hollies to all fruit at the same time...then it's impossible for the color of the berries to clash. For some reason, I've noticed that people use color combinations in Fall gardens not visible any other season. For example, orange & purple mums co-existing next to each other with a pink not too far away. I love the way all the different mums look grouped together. I don't just match like to like & notice my neighbors don't either. In the Fall, it just seems to work.

Personally, what I don't like in a garden is the all matchy, matchy various shades of pink, blue, with a little white & yellow thrown in. It just looks artificial to me...too planned...too managed...not at all like nature does it. Guess I know more about what I don't like than what I do like. In the pinky/bluish perennial border, I'd be more inclined to add a punch of hot red or orange than yellow/white. This is one of the reasons why our gardens are each unique even though we grow many similar or identical plants. It's the placement of those plants that express who we are as people and gardeners. In my garden you'll find pots scattered around in small groups...in my neighbor's...she organizes them by height, color, etc. and
symetrically (sp?) arranges them. I try for overall 'balance' but not uniformity.

I'm also NOT a control freak. I have a blessed & dear friend who once moved a mature plant 'cause she felt it "needed" to be six inches to the left! To me, that's obsessive/compulsive. I don't do a lot of moving, dividing, etc. in my garden. I weed out seedlings that overcrowd a bed but, overall, I enjoy how my garden changes by nature's influence, not mine, over the seasons. Then, every five-seven years, or so, when things seem to be getting out of control...I'll pull the entire bed and start over. No matter how hard I try...when I rely on just my planning the garden somehow looks "managed and contrived". The randomness of self-sown seeds, creeping rhizomes, etc. is what turns a planted perennial bed into a garden, IMO.

But, and I stress this...there's no correct or wrong way...beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

My own "design challenge" isn't that I focus on color, it's that I have wonton plant lust. This year I've had to move, or still need to move, 2 winter honeysuckle, a crape myrtle, a sambucus, and a witch hazel - all out of an area about 10 x 12, planted last year. I knew very well that these plants would not all fit in that area, but I just HAD to have them. Once these are removed, the area will still be crowded, as it's full of perennials too.

I like the idea of using b&w photos to see the forms in your garden. I also like to plan my garden really thoroughly, knowing all the while that once I'm out there doing the actual work, nothing will go quite as planned. So, I have to-scale maps of the whole yard and bigger scale drawings of each section. I make copies of these and sketch out different ideas.

The last project I worked on was a big mixed border along the street, across most of the front yard. Before I started, I took a series of shots from across the street and combined them in Photoshop. I didn't bother trying to compose the garden on the computer, I just used the composite shot for reference when I did the plans.

I think I'll adopt your idea, though, and get some new shots now. It'll be interesting to see how my carefully drawn plans actually turned into a garden, and I would like to know if there is ANY similarity between what I planned and what I actually planted.

What a timely topic for me! This year I started with plans, ended with double the varieties I thought I'd have and will be doing a LOT of moving in the Spring. I'm just getting
into drifting but at this point you wouldn't know it.

I have a tendancy to try and mix too much together -- it gets beyond "informal." Why? Because I don't want it to be boring. So I end up with too many colors and forms and the individual plants get lost. There's a fine line between mixed and mess :-)

So, with graph paper and plant inventory in hand, I'll be spending the winter trying to get the plant bones "balanced." Then will come the annuals and it'll be all blown out of the water.

Martie, reminding myself that even White Flower Farm didn't get their new perennial border "right" without some moves.

If you have photo editing software, you can change your color photos to B&W. I use Adobe Photoshop. I did look at some photos of my borders, and found that the B&W photos showed up where the textures needed some variation. Somehow the color makes it difficult to see shadows and light, and without it, form, leaf size/texture, and composition really seemed to jump out of the pictures.

WOW I feel as though I have been seeing my garden in a whole different light...LOL. TriciaE you made a great point about fall colors I will try to remind myself of that the next time I have a clash attack. Nan you reminded me that in April 2004 I did a scaled drawing of a section in my yard that I was going to plant that spring. I went and dug out the drawing and at first glance I told myself I followed it to a tee then I had to laugh when I realized I had used very few of the shrubs on the plan and nothing was layed out at all like I had put on paper. I had grouped shrubs into colonies rather than a repeating pattern, ect. I think I got into trouble with poorly estimating available light so when the trees leafed out I made some quick changes as well as being the impulsive nursery shopper. Martie dont you think itÂs the annuals that come to the rescue every year filling in holes, brightening up dark spots, and there is always a new intro. to really get the blood pumping. Saypoint thanks for the info about editing software it really helped to see some photos I took in July in B&W (still too wet and cold to go outside). I thought I would post a few photoÂs in both color and black and white and describe what I saw. Please donÂt hold back I have thick skin I am interested in your frank opinion. Katy
Foggy July day

Katy, your gardens are beautiful. I agree that the plants in the lower right of the last photo look great together, and the b&w photo really shows up the mix of textures nicely.

The first photo, with the 'Becky' in it, I think would look better if the B was repeated on the left side of the path. The right side has so much more color than the left, at least from the angle of that photo?

Beautiful!
Jo

So, when are you coming to CT to give me a hand????? Your gardens are a dream.

I like the Daylily where it is, but if the Sedum also lines the walk, maybe doing some Daylily clumps would give you the color punch but not the "line."

Also, it wasn't until I looked at the B&W of the 1st pic that I saw the oblesks. The point is proven :-) What lives there?

Just gorgeous work.

Martie

Katy, your garden is exquisite. I love the shape of the walkway and the way the garden enfolds is. Just beautiful. I also really like your use of shrubs. I, too, think my favorite part of the garden----at least from among the photos here--is the right side of the mud room entrance (lower right of last photo). That part is also shown in the lower left of the first picture, isn't it? What I like there is the (?) heather (smaller, lighter-toned sub-shrubby thing next to the walkway) and how its spikiness contrasts with the roundy-moundy shapes around it. At the same time, though, the spiky one and the moundy things have a similar density, so none of them overwhelms the other.

I garden at the other end of the color-form spectrum from you--I focus on form and texture of foliage and the shape of the plant. I care less about the flower colors of my plants than that they have the right shapes, textures and visual weight or airiness. I think I got this way by looking at the gardens of Nicole de Ve/sian and Erik Borja (both in Provence...hmm..perhaps I should look into living there? Especially in winter?) There is a LOT of structure in both of their gardens, and a careful balance of forms and textures, but very little color, other than green and shades of blue/gray green. Borja's gardens are true to the aesthetics and design principles of Japanese gardens; I believe de Ve/sian was heavily influenced by Japanese garden design but that her own at La Louve is not an authentic Japanese garden.

Those two gardens taught me to look at form and texture--perhaps too much, to the exclusion of flowers. I think Adrian Bloom, especially in his own personal garden, achieves the best balance. In his own garden, he started out using mostly conifers and heathers, later adding perennials. I like to see how he combines form with flowers to the benefit of each.

My own design balance problems: like Nan, I have plant lust. I must have this, I must have that, and I have a tiny yard. My paths are too narrow. I KNOW they're too narrow, and every year I dig them up and try to make them wider, only to fail because I have too many plants and can't give enough of them up (or I give enough away, but bring home just a few more, e.g., the plant swap!). People who like gardening tend to love my yard, but people who aren't that interested in plants can get a little overwhelmed. I have never drawn a plot plan, because then I would have to acknowledge just how tiny the yard is. And I can focus too much on shape and texture. For a while, my garden seemed horribly jumpy because every plant had a different texture than the ones next to it. Took me a while to learn to make drifts. My drifts are of shapes, though--a group of 7 rounded, blue-leaved, fine-textured sub-shrubs in a drift across one part of the garden--rather than of flowers. That is all well and good, except I'm still working on what should be a focal point and what shouldn't. It should be something with a different shape and/or texture, I know, but when is it a focal point and when is it just busyness? How much visual interest and/or contrast is too much?

Getting back to your pictures, I had a few thoughts in addition to general awe at how beautiful the garden is. This is just my opinion; I'm putting it down here because reading another point of view might help you to focus on what you want.

I agree that the outer side of the garden lacks form in the second picture. I really like how the rounded shapes of the plants on the house/left side in the first picture echo the overall rounded shape of the plantings and the curves of the path. To my (form-crazed) eye, the Becky's muddle the form. I might want something...I don't know... rounded? neater? there.

I wonder why you don't like the day lilies. Could it be that they draw too much attention away from the rest of the planting? I think they're great where they are, but if I cover them up with my hand, I look at the Hydrangeas on the other side of the path. When I uncover the day lilies, the Hydrangeas fade away. Which is more important to you?

Nothing but delight at the last picture.

Can we see more?

Amanda

Hello all :-) Hi Katy..

Had a minute and was looking for a distraction and boy Katy those photos of your garden did the trick. You have a beautiful spot there. I love how the fog gives it a romantic look. I have no design expertise to add. I can say what I like about your garden. I love the setting and the backgrounds. I love the exuberance of color. I love the amount of color. I love the fairy rose behind the hydrangeas. I love the becky Shasta and am going to try to get one for my yard. I love the two evergreens in the bed near the driveway? I love the brick walkway. I love the sedums and the placement of them and the amount of them. I love the obelisks. I love the dog [g]

What I noticed that might give more balance...
The overall impression is that you have a lot of rounded, mound forms. You could add some different forms, more vertical as in foxglove, lupines, hollyhocks or aconitum, or more daisy or bell shape flowers such as ladybells and the echinacea you are thinking of. If the light is right, you could add some grasses. Or have you thought of a few strategically placed lilies? I don't imagine it would take a lot to give you the balance you are looking for.

In photo number 1, as has already been mentioned, there appears to be more color on the lawn side of your walkway.

I have read and studied only a few design books and some of the ideas are very helpful. Especially when you aren't satisfied and feel stuck. I guess my approach is instinct because a garden is such a personal pursuit. What makes you happy and appeals to your family is success. You have done a wonderful job in designing a bright, structured yet informal very inviting garden. Tweaking it to suit your own eye is all you need. It would make me very happy to walk down that front walkway every day just the way it is. :-)

That's so beautiful.

I'm afraid my approach is completely simplistic--"pretty flower, I want", there are plants other than flowers? I need to spend a LOT of time looking at concepts other than pretty bloom.

OTOH, flowers are what I like, so perhaps a garden that is all flowers is right for me...

--Carolyn

I cant begin to describe how much I have learned from your valuable suggestions after years of friends and family (none of whom are interested in gardening) politely commenting on "how pretty the yard looks" one can loose prospective. You were all right on target when you suggested that there was much more color on the lawn side of the front garden than the right side abutting the house. How is it that I never saw that before LOL? As a matter of fact the brick path creates three garden areas none of which have a common thread. Where the Beckys are planted they do muddle the form and the lawn side needs some additions to help with form and texture. I originally thought that the answer was as simple as replacing the shastas with coneflowers (I cant let go of how much I love the COLOR of the hydrangeas with the coneflowers) but now I think the answer is to pull the garden out further into the lawn so that I can add the flowers as well as some plants that will add form and texture and not be so messy. You were also correct about needing a better balance of forms everything is round and puffy I do need to add some more linear plants. I still am troubled by the daylilies, which is probably why this fall I replaced the Cloverdales with another daylily that was more creamy yellow thinking that the color was the problem! I am just posting these last few pictures that will hopefully give you a better understanding of the three separate garden areas in one garden and the need to tie them together with a common thread I promise not to drag this out forever but your input has been tremendously valuable. Katy

Jo, Thanks for the nice comments and boy do you have a great eye you saw immediately the problem of the two sides not being in balance.

Amanda, Your drive for texture and form has inspired me I cant wait to get to the book store its like a light has been switched on. I think your question "How much visual interest and/or contrast is too much?" would make for a very interesting discussion on GW. I have never heard of drifts before but the concept sounds as though it adds comfort to the eye rather than having polka dots throughout the garden. Thanks.

Ann, You are so perceptive you did not miss a thing (including the dog Basil, that I didnt even notice was in the photo). I like your suggestion to add more vertical plants I think it will make a huge difference. I cant wait to spend the winter pouring over my gardening books with a different eye. Thanks

Carolyn, Thanks for the nice comments and there is absolutely nothing simplistic about flower gardens, actually I call my flowers "my prima donnas". I think we all have that primal voice inside "pretty plant, I want"

Enter the garden from the driveway

Really beautiful - your garden is inspiring. It not only looks very well designed, it looks incredibly well maintained.

Now I'm very depressed and am thinking of moving into a condo and taking up a new hobby, maybe stamp collecting.

By the way, I really like the daylilies; they add a dynamic note. The garden would be less exciting without them!

Hi Katy.

I love your garden, I love this thread and I am so happy I have some of your daisies in my garden now. I hope they'll bring some of your garden's beauty to mine! It really is funny how I think of each of you when I wander around and look at your plants.

But, to the point. I agree with DtD. Don't nix the daylilies. They are definitely more dynamic. I think their dynamism results from their sword-like foliage, which is such a nice counterpoint to your mounds. And I like the color of their blooms, but yellow will be nice there too! I would love to see some stronger swords...maybe siberian iris..., and maybe some "fans" (gaura?) too.

I also agree with Ann that I would like something more vertical -- a columnar punch up through the roundy mounds. Is it the dwarf blue spruce which is a skinny, craggy interesting vertical with nice horizontal branches? The blue needles are lovely with coneflowers, too. Maybe 3 of them, 1 in each of your garden areas to tie them together a bit? They are such a nice form in winter too. Or...what's that plant...Harry Lauder's Walking Stick? Somebody's Walking Stick. It's got such an interesting form. It would provide a terrific focal point maybe right where the daisies are now?

Well...that's my 2 cents! It's worth what you paid for it!

Best,
ML (the other Carolyn)

O no no n o no no no no.

Just looked up HL's WS. Too big, too moundy. What was I thinking?

No no no no. Not a dwarf blue spruce. Something with a much more open, "reachy" habit. Maybe it's a Tsuga mertenasiana 'Bumps Blue'? I am sure whatever I have is widely available...or I wouldn't have it. Maybe I'll take a pic....

Katy,

I am not worthy! What a wonderful garden you have. You've gotten some great advice already here, so I don't know what I can add other than a wide-open mouth.

:0

I am in awe of your gardening skills.

I have to admit I am still gardening on the principle of "pretty plant, I want some," I fear it will be years before I have the knowledge and experience to actually try to design my garden beds with something in mind other than "I like flowers" or "I just like growing and nurturing things that don't talk back."

BTW, thank you so much for that one last photo of the coneflower and the daylily and the hydrangea in the background. With the way the weather's been around here lately, that really brightened my day!

Love your metal obelisks too!

Alison (don't mind me, just gushing!)

HI,
Now I've screwed up my courage to add a small observation.Someone may have already said this, but the number of ideas coming in are too many to keep track of.
In the photo "the mudroom garden" see how tightly the "dwarf" Alberta Spruce hug the house. In this photo, some more vertical or conical mass on the opposite side of the walk would balance. The obelisk tells me you know it, however it is open, not closed; airy not a mass. There are many, many beautiful conifers that would love full sun. Maybe a golden one? It seems a chamecypress might work, a arborvitae "smaarg" is a strong and narrow plant. I'm going to forward this thread to someone knows alot about evergreens. Maybe she can give you some sp. examples. Did ron48 look yet?
Marie

I'm enjoying reading everyone's ideas.

One of the yellow Thuja orientalis, like T. o. 'Aurea Nana' would give strong vertical lines with golden foliage. An older Chamaecyparis obtusa 'Nana Gracilis' (green) or C. o. 'Verdonii' (yellow) would also make a good, dense, pyramidal shape, but they tend to be moundy when young. A (relatively) dwarf Chamaecyparis lawsoniana, like 'Elwood's Pillar,' would work. Chamaecyparis pisifera 'Boulevard' or 'Curly Tops' would provide bright blue foliage; these guys get big eventually but they take well to pruning/shearing--in fact they look better when they're trimmed every year or two because they grow in denser and bluer. Juniperus scopularum 'Sky Rocket' and 'Blue Arrow' are wonderful blue verticals but they probably get too large.

Nan, please don't give up gardening. That would be a real loss for the plant world (including Garden Web).

Amanda

Okay, I was curious enough to look at the conifer book just now (Gardening with Conifers, by Adrian Bloom), and I see that I misspelled Juniperus scopulOrum.

Mayalena, how tall is your reachy blue conifer? What kind of needles/scales does it have?

Amanda

i'm impressed by so many of your good advisors out here. i am in agreement about the benefit of verticals and i have some questions and suggestions. i'm delighted to see that you have a number of diff. conifers but i don't see yellow ones; do you dislike yellow foliage? if not, i do think Chaemy. obtusa nana lutea is the one to surely get, not verdonii (which isn't as yellow as nana lutea). amanda has exc.knowledge and a very good eye and many good suggestions. what i would suggest is that you go to conifer books ,and nurseries that offer many varieties. take a copy of dirr's with you for reference on culture and ult. size,etc. john ,owner of katsura gardens in plymouth, is very knowledgable and carries many unusual woody plants and conifers; warren leach at tranquil lake- if you took him photos and talked to him, i'm sure he'd have some great recommendations too. one thing that's difficult about evergreens in perennial beds is the challenge of finding ones that are going to stay small enough. while your photos are excellent; none show the garden beds within the larger context of the space around them, so it's a bit hard to advise on scale. unfortunately, a camera can't replicate the human eye and it's ability to take in all the peripheral elements and then make design suggestions.
at any rate, chaemy. BOULEVARD gets way too huge for your perennial beds, Chaemy. lawsoniana Elwoodii can be agreat plant but it too gets too big for your perennial beds and the phytophora(sp?)disease issue with lawsonianas causes loss of many of them unless they've been grown on grafted non-lawsoniana stock (and that is just beginning to happen in the trade apparently). however, given all that, maybe you could grow them with no problem. phytophora is a fickle but dreadful thing. maybe some of the smaller candleflame shaped junipers, blue and blue-yellow. and how about berberis helmond's pillar for burgundy verticals? i would really like to see more ppl. foliage in your beds.there's also a fine golden barberry and golden mock orange(philadelphus)- though both are mounds.
i was going to suggest a columnar ilex but i think i see one near your side door and i think you need more colored conifers . because of the timing of your photos, i don't know if you have ornamental grasses but i think they would add greatly to your problem of 'too many mounds'.i'd love to see miscanthus strictus up against your house one bay over from each of your alberta spruce.and maybe the green and white varieg. miscanthus- Variegata or Cosmopolitan -between your windows to the right of your side door.(you could also do some neat trellis or espalier things on the wall behind these grasses- pyracantha, wisteria,....)
and how about the lovely chaemy. Cripsii at the corner of your house in place of that green conifer, and another golden- like a gold thuja- somewhere else against the house to balance the cripsii? blue grasses- helichtotrichon(sp.),fescue, and taller ones- are great next to yellow conifers.
and with all the heat radiating off those bricks, some green and gold yuccas might be cool for bold eyecatching form- but not right next to where you walk!
well, so many options to add to your beautiful creation...
thanks so much for sharing the beauty.

O -- I am blushing at my LACK of knowledge. I am going to join Nan on stamps....
I am also going to take a pic of my blue reachy thing and post it whenever the rain stops. This will be my first ever photo post, so wish me luck!

>it's that I have wonton plant lust.

Thank you arbo return, for pointing out (via email) that most people might think I meant wanton plant lust, whereas mine has more of an oriental aesthetic, with the raked stones and doughy consistency. OK now I'm getting goofy and might as well just fess up to the spelling error.

This thread is great, I am amazed at all the insight people have and are willing to share.

I'd still like to know what's on the obelesks :-)

I, too, am overwhelmed by all the wonderful suggestions. I don't think, though, that anyone has mentioned Tree Peony. They give such a punch of wonderful color and in my humble experience, have enough of a different rounded form that they don't look like just another bump. They would get great protection if you replaced some "Becky" spots with them.

Also think the daylilys should stay. In the second set of pics I see that they are already clumped and their texture matters where they are. Perhaps duplicating the clump pattern with some Siberian Iris (pink, of course :-) will give it flow.

Just, plain, wow. Here's hoping that in several years I, too, can post something like this. With everyone's help, and a ton of work, this gives me the impetus to have it happen!

Martie

"wonton plant lust": Aww, and I'd thought I'd finally be able to turn my husband into a gardener by getting him a Wonton Plant. I mean, I'm sure they're much better fresh from the garden than they are from any take-out place. :)

Looking again at the pictures, I think what I would want to see--and again, this is just my opinion, not any kind of prescription--is another dwarf Alberta spruce where the yard-side obelisk stands now, grouped with some (like, 2-3) yellow conifers, plus whatever else you like: yuccas, tree peonies, purple cone flower, combination... Repeating the yellow conifers in the mudroom garden might tie it all together.

As Adam said, it's already so beautiful, it won't take much tweaking.

Amanda

Trying to add photos of my blue reachy conifer.

Well... I can see that I've successfully linked to 1, but I've got 3 at photobucket that I'd like to put in the body of this post. Guidance, anyone? How did Katy do it?
TIA.

Sorry my learning curve has hijacked this thread. Here are my pics.

That IS a beauty, Mayalena. Great texture and color.

mayalena, lovely combo. you might also enjoy helichtrotrichon(sp.) and fescues and taller blue grass
in that scenario.

I am so overwhelmed by your generous and very insightful suggestions I hardly know where to begin. Once again you have all hit the nail on the head one standout conifer repeated in each of the three garden areas is the perfect thing to tie them together. The placement of this garden at the entrance to a house is not something you often see in New England and for good reasonthe four seasons. Each and every time I enter or leave the house this garden is up front and present right in my face whether I have the time or inclination to deal with its ever changing needs so unlike other gardens in the yard there is no ignoring it which is both a blessing and a curse. Early on I realized that heathers, conifers, dwarf evergreens, played the major role (particularly in the winter) and the Hydrangeas, roses, daylilies, and daisies where spring and summers celebration for having made it through another New England winter. In my zeal to have the garden come alive and dazzle me with COLOR each spring I have been sacrificing and hiding the conifers, evergreens, heathers by allowing the deciduous flowering plants to crowd and create unwelcome shade a good example of this in the mudroom garden in the center is a Osmanthus Goshiki with a deep dark whole in the bottom from having been crowded by a poorly sited hydrangea. Arbo_retum was correct when he said the camera couldnt catch everything that the human eye can catch. What the overpowering summer plants hide in the mudroom garden are the following; a three-foot high Chamaecyparis obtusa Nana, three-foot standard of Juniperus Blue Star, Juniperus Limelight?, azeala little gem (repeated in the three garden areas but not a strong thread), Pinus Strobus, Rhododendron yakusimanum Prince, dwarf mountain laurel (repeated in the three garden areas but not strong enough to be noticed even when in bloom), birds nest fir, sky pencil holly, twelve variegated Euonymus boxwood type? (in-between the sedum). Added since the photo are all very young plants of the following, Chamaecyparis lawsoniana Ellwoods Pillar, Chamaecyparis obtusa Hage, two Chamaecyparis lawsoniana Blue Gem, Chamaecyparis obtusa Kosteri, Rhododendron smirnowii. Ok now can I apply for charter membership to the New England chapter of "Wonton" Plant Growers? I went to the trouble of telling you all this for two reasons firstly it is interesting what we can and can not see through the camera lens as well as what we indivually focus our own eyes on in each garden scene. Secondly I have decided to wait until winter to choose which conifer I already have quite a few and I want to make certain that which ever standout conifer (blue or yellow) I choose will work during the winter as well. So to review my plan is to;
1. Add some more form and structure to the lawn side of the front garden as well as the addition of coneflowers this will be achieved by extending the garden bed into to lawn another five feet.
2. Add one stand out vertical conifer to tie the three garden areas together and to add additional vertical height to the overall garden.
3. Add more color (coneflowers) to the house side of the front garden to balance the two sides.
4. Concede to public opinion and keep the daylilies where they are.
I want to conclude by thanking you all this was an in creditable experience and I would highly recommend it to any of you should you ever get stuck at a gardening crossroad. I know I have said it before but I have learned more in this last week from your valuable input than anything I could have taken away from a book or seminar. I hope to post a photo next year to show you the results of our (N E Wonton Plant Growers or NEWPG) work. Thanks Katy

Nan, you are soooooooo funny if you arent writing comedy you should be. You cant hide for a minute what an experienced gardener you are. You had so many unusual and interesting plants at the swap including the kiwi vine that I went home with. Thanks

Carolyn, Thanks for all of your help. I am keeping the daylilies and I have added to that garden some Iriss from Chelone. I too think of everyone when I see their plants and now having been given so much advise hopefully I will stop to think twice before I allow some compulsion to drive my decision. Your garden looks beautiful, lush, and healthy I love your blue pine, looked through a few of my books but was unable to identify (love plant-must have) and I particularly like it companioned with your purple leafed plant behind it what is that? I also like the shape of the leaf in front of the purple leafed plant is it a beach plum?

Alison, thanks for all you nice comments and I think you know I am with you I just like growing and nurturing things that don't talk back.

Marie, you caught me red handed I have been cheating and using the obelisks to add height but your right it needs to be a solid vertical. I even added clematis Etoile Violette to one of them but now I dont think it is a solid enough mass, particularly in the fall and winter. Thanks

Amanda, You have to be one of the most knowledgeable plants women I have ever met. I love your suggestions so far the strongest candidates are Chamaecyparis lawsoniana Ellwoods Pillar, I want to look up Chamaecyparis pisifera Curly Tops, I have tried growing Boulevard in the past but it had dramatic interior browning and was told by the nursery it was environmental that they just dont do well where I live. I wonder if it was really phytophora(sp?) disease come to think of it I have not seen any Cham. lawsonianas at my local nurseries. I will have to look into that. I went on line and ordered three Adrian Bloom books! Thanks

Arbo_retum, Wow I had to re-read your post several times as it had so much valuable information it was hard for me to take it all in at once. From your suggestions I am going to look at, Chaemy. obtusa nana lutea , smaller candleflame shaped junipers, blue and blue-yellow, berberis helmond's pillar, and chaemy. Cripsii . I know it is crazy but I have stayed away from all grasses as I think they strongly date a garden similarly to colored kitchen appliances. I have never been to the nurseries you suggested but I cant wait to visit them this spring. Thanks for all your help I will keep you posted as to what I finally come up with.

Martie, Thanks for all of the nice comments. This spring when I knew I needed more height in the front garden by the lawn I decided to cheat and asked my DH who is a plumber to quick solder something together for me, in a heart beat I had the obelesk and I planted clematis, viticella Etoile Violette and there is nothing climbing the other obelesk as I just like the structure of the old iron fence posta little bit of the city in the country! I am looking forward to meeting in person at Loogees.

KATY, SO GLAD I COULD BE HELPFUL. JUST SO YOU KNOW, I AM A 'SHE'!
BEST, MINDY

P.S. CHAEMY. LAWSON. BLUE GEM is a lawsoniana(and oh, to dies for.), so if you are growing it with no problem, then you can probably grow other lawsonianas. john at katsura gardens has a number of them. when you go, TELL him you have had luck with the lawsonianas.

have you really not seen ornamental grasses used well in gardens? how can you think they 'date'a garden? to me,if well placed, they are as timeless as any of the other plants, and as essential as colored foliage or conifers, for a successful garden.
katy, are you very sure you are z.7?? i have never heard of anyone being in z.7 in new england.

Mindy -
Coastal areas of cape cod, and the islands, are now officially zone 7.

This is somewhat of a diappointment to me, as I used to think I was doing something really special by growing plants that are marginally hardy in zone 6.

Even though this new zone information is based on accurate local weather records, I suspect that the numbers are not telling the whole story. When it's really, really, cold in NE, our temperatures are no higher than in Boston. So when I shop for plants, I shy away from anything rated for zone 7, unless it's something special with no zone 6 alternatives.

Katy, fantastic thread. Thank you for starting it. And the pictures of your garden made my day-- wow!

Hi Katy.
Thanks for your nice comments. The purple-leaved plant is a purple sand cherry (winter moth caterpillars love it). The plant in front of it is a witchhazel. And those lush gardens at the back of the pic...are my neighbors'. But I certainly enjoy the view!
C

no great words of wisdom, just applause: you obviously put a lot of thought behind your selections & their placement and your plants look very, very happy.

i see a lot of balance -- you have lovely bold swathes of your favorites & still delightful unexpected treats tucked here & there. though you may suffer from wanton plant lust, you give the lucky chosen ones room to breathe.

you may call it obsession, but it can also be called passion & that's a grand thing to have.

gorgeous gardens, katy.

Katy,

I noticed in your pictures that you have quite a lot of lovely big healthy sedums. Are they Autumn Joy? It looks like you have daylilies planted with them. Do you like that combination?

I am revamping two beds, and in one of them I am planning to consolidate all the Autumn Joy sedums that I have planted in various beds around my garden. I've never quite known what to plant with them, given the succulent nature of their foliage. Even in your black and white photos, your sedums look lovely massed like they are along that path.

My plan is to put climbing roses in back on a trellis fence, with peonies interspersed with daylilies and purple and pink coneflowers and the sedums. I can't remember if I came up with this plan before or after seeing your pictures, but they definitely influenced me.

Anyone have any other brilliant ideas for companion plants for Autumn Joy?

Alison

Hi Alison,
Your plan sounds very exciting I particularly love the idea of climbing roses with the peonies the timing should be perfect. I remember reading somewhere what wonderful companions peonies and iris are. What varieties are you thinking about? Have you considered combining clematis with the climbing rose?
Yes the sedums are Autumn Joy and yes I have attempted to companion plant daylilies behind them. This was my first year with the Autumn Joy in that location so my experience is extremely limited but here are some of my thoughts. The structure and color of the sedum from May to August prior to its blooming was beautiful and deserving of a prominent spot in the garden. During this time I have been playing around with staggering bloom times of the following daylilies Ice Carnival, Good looking, and John Russ, these all have a similar creamy yellow blossom that looks great with the sedums soft blue/green color. Each group of daylilies includes one of each plant so hopefully I will have extended bloom throughout July, and early August. My original plan was to add a forth daylily to each group that would be late blooming and accent the color of the sedums blossom. Here is where I ran into trouble the latest blooming daylily I found locally was the wonderful Sandra Elizabeth (which is on my personal top ten list for this year) the color of the blossom is a bright yellow and although the combination is not offensive it certainly does not accent the sedums flower. I would love to know if there are any other daylilies that bloom at the same late date as Sandra Elizabeth. I intentionally searched my garden as well as garden centers for plants that would accent the Autumn Joy blossom and although I have yet to solve this in my garden I did take note of coleus - burgundy/fuchsia, burgundy salvia Van Houttei, white abelia, golden rod, harlequin glory bower, and black or fuchsia dahlias that worked well with the sedums color. Although not at their peak I think your coneflowers will companion well with the sedums blossom, I wonder if there are some later blooming varieties of Echinacea? Something else I never considered before planting a large group of Autumn Joy is a few bees on a plant here and there creates nothing more than an interesting observance but when planted in mass they will attract a huge number of bees and possibly a problem. Also, in an attempt to prevent the plants from flopping over by the weight of the blossom I divide my plants every year (which is why I have so many they all came from one plant) and this works for me. I do have a friend who this year tried pinching the plant back as you would do with asters in an attempt to prevent flopping over and that worked well too. Best of luck. Katy

alison,
katy has exc. suggestions for daylily yellows- i agree with her that the lighter yellow d.l. are better with the green not-yet-bloomed flower heads. katy's also good with suggesting the burgundy colors-like coleus- to complement the green and then salmon of the aut. joy. perilla, a readily-self-sowing annual jap. herb, is a wonderful black. in addition, i would recommend the various ppl. leaved shrubs- from the new dwarf weigela midnight wine, to the various berberis- incl. helmond's pillar , which is so valuable for that upright pencil shape, and cotinus royal ppl and grace, and physocarpus diablo. for flowers that bloom at the same time, caryopteris is a wonderful shrub that can give you airy blue spires( dark knight is better than longwood blue because its blue is darker and more saturated) buddleia - the dk. ppl one- has wonderful dk.ppl spires for above and behind your sedum, and liriope variegata has short glossy green and yell.striped fountain foliage for the whole gardening season, gaining short ppl. spires commensurate w/ aut joy's salmon- that's great for edging a sedum area. AND DON'T FORGET THOSE VALUABLE ORNAMENTAL GRASSES!! black mondo grass is a great edger,pennisetum moudry and alpocuroides, the annual black pennisetum atropurpureum, and the taller miscanthus strictus and variegata and cabaret- all make great counterpoint to the dense low salmon of the aut. joy.the yellow fountain of carex bowles golden makes a handsome year-long companion to aut. joy as it comes up in the spring and lasts until after aut joy has gone by.you can easily propogate more aut joy by cutting it back by 1/3 or half - as late as end of june; strip off lower leaves of your cuttings, poke your finger into the soil and put in your cutting, pack the soil around the cutting, water and it will become a new plant.

Katy and Mindy,

Thanks so much for all the excellent advice. I've spent the last couple of days googling the plants you've suggested. I don't know why I have so much trouble coordinating the colors in my garden. (I mean, I don't have any trouble dressing myself, but then, everything goes with black stretch pants, LOL).

Anyway, I don't have any light yellow or cream colored daylilies, I was planning to use some of the pinks and reds I have already. I do have one that I'm pretty sure is Hyperion, but the point seems to be to find one that will bloom around the same time as the sedum?

I forgot, I already have a clematis in that bed that I was planning to leave there. It has a purple/blue star-shaped flower, probably Jackmanii. The roses are Prosperity and New Dawn. And most of the peonies are just the usual pink and white ones that most newbie gardeners buy. Although I do have a pink and yellow one and one called Shaggy Dog. I basically want to consolidate my peonies into this bed which is in full sun, cause several of the peonies are in beds where they get adequate sun in the spring, but once the trees leaf out completely, they are in deep shade, and they get mildewy then.

Oh, there is a little patch of irises in there already too that I got on the Plant Exchange Forum earlier this year. They haven't bloomed yet, so I don't really know for sure what they are.

I love the idea of using blacks and deep burgundy as counterpoint to the sedum. I might change my mind about the coneflowers. I just have too many of them in another bed, and wanted to put them somewhere else. I like the perilla, the weigela midnight wine, the physocarpus diablo and the caryopteris. Also love the idea of using black mondo grass as an edging.

And thanks for the tips on propagating the sedum. I noticed they attracted bumble bees, but they don't fly around them, they just sort of sprawl across the blossom like they are drunk or something. They remind me of one of my cats on catnip.

Anyway, there is lots here to think about. I appreciate all the help. Thanks!

Alison

Alison, is it any chance you could post a picture of your yellow peony?
Do you happen to know its name?

Hi George, it's a pink and yellow peony, kind of like a Bowl of Beauty, not an all-yellow one.

Thank You All:

I've been following your discussion with interest and your suggestions brought some wonderful results.

In a small corner garden I have massed 'Autumn Joy' with the climbing rose 'Golden Showers'. HD Heuchera with maroon foliage gets it's shade from the sedum. In the Spring I'll get a compact, limey-colored grass to brighten things up here and there.

To be sure the bees stay really comotose, I have 'Provence' lav on the "other" side of the rose in different soil. Unfortunately, there won't be room for daylilys.

Thank you all for helping me put together my first garden!!

Martie

Martie,
Your new garden seems very creative and colorful and certainly will hold a lot of interest through all three seasons. Your earlier concern " I have a tendancy to try and mix too much together -- it gets beyond "informal." definitely isnt the case here. I love the idea of combining yellow with the deeper burgundy/maroon and chartreuse colors I traditionally have always companioned yellow with the pinks and purples. Arbo_retum suggested I use more of this combination and I have now added a berberis Helmonds Pillar to the spring wish list. Your yellow climbing rose 'Golden Showers' reminded me I have an empty trellis hmmmmmmmm! Katy

Oooo is this a great thread. Would any of the main posters like to give the rest of us any updates on the very cool ideas and plans that seemed to have come about as a result of the discussion? I think I added 10 plants to my must have list in reading through it, nevermind feeling like I needed to rethink everything again in my new garden installation! Hope y'all don't mind the bump!

Lisa

Id also like to chime in that the yellow lab in the front lawn picture really balanced the wood-shingled cape style house......soooo new england.

I read this thread a few years back, but it seems so much more fulfilling this time around. Is it cause Ive gotten to know the personalities better, or the plants better?

Any updated photos?...greg

Thanks for bumping this thread, it is a real classic.

Holey Moley...what a kick in the pants I just got by re-reading this thread, and boy did I need it. To tell you the evolution of this garden is a long story lost to a compulsive desire to bring home all too many plants and tell myself I will only plant my new treasure for a year or two then as it matures transplant it to a more appropriate spot. The spring following this thread I enlarged the entire length of this garden by five feet, added the suggested conifers, Helmods Pillar, balanced the other side of the garden by adding Becky Daisies, which was a remarkable improvement unfortunately I didnt stop there. All of this new found space gave me a license to shop and shop I did and the finished product was so cluttered that I avoided this garden like the plague this year. I was frozen in indecision about how to fix the mess that I created but my plan now is to remove every perennial in the garden and take a look at it in an uncluttered state. I will post photos as I go along and of course would welcome all of your valuable suggestions.
It is easy to see how year round structure in a front entry garden is essential. Spring 2006

kt, to answer your specific question regarding techniques...., what really does it for me is visiting a mostly non-perennials garden so that you focus on form, foliage, texture, mass, and color that is non-floral.
'Painting w/ conifers and shrubs' is a great game; so many variations of yellows, blues, greens.....

some helpful books are the adrian bloom books documenting his gardens, and shrubs and conifers books.

best,
mindy

What I really love about this path of Katy's is the repetition of plants along its length. It makes such a difference - compared to my instinct to plant a couple of each of a lot of different plants. It gives the path a cohesive look and sets up a rhythm that seems to draw you along.

dtd,
I would be interested to here what you think, yes I have repeated the hydrangeas along the brick path but now that I have widened the the bed what pattern will work on the other side of the hydrangea. This and last year I avoided the problem and just through in mixed perennials that just came off as clutter.