Low point here supposed to be 15 degrees F. on Monday night. Earlier it was supposed to be Sunday night (17 now predicted for Sunday). So far, except for winds yesterday severity predicted not materializing - am just now seeing a little breeze from the north. Storm yesterday was supposed to blast out of the north and knock everything down. Here we had winds from the usual southerly direction.

The only thing I need to be concerned over is my tree fern. I did get one this summer and it is doing great. I have it in a very protected spot. I put a very large plastic tub I got a large tree in over it. Ian - how long can I keep the tub over my fern? I will take off the tub in the day and recover at night. It is supposed to be nasty cold through next week. It doesn't seem to be as cold as they said it was going to be. I still even have roses blooming! My 'New Dawn' has a lot of flowers on it!

Well....we got a 4" blanket of snow this morning. It turned to rain in the afternoon and we are down to about 1.5 inches but it is at least some protection.
Two power outages today for a total of 3 hours. Now I'm worried about the vireyas and proteas in my greenhouse if the power goes out...also worried about the pump and all of the heat tape protected faucets in the barns....oh, well.......if the power goes out for a prolonged period it will be the first time in a few years.
Wishing you all nice protective snow blankets! jwww

A plastic tub all by itself isn't going to help much as far as providing insulation. How about a plastic tub full of leaves, straw or pine needles. You can leave it on for a week or even a little longer if it's still cold. I hope it survives!

Bboy, the forecast went amiss partly because computer models projected the storm to pass just south of us, and it passed just north of us instead. The center of it passed very close to Seqium and a weather station here recorded a barometric pressure of 978mb which is typical of a minor hurricane. North of the low one gets north winds and greater likelihood of snow.

Gardengal - I'm sorry, it's always unfortunate to not go to California. When I stopped at Moorten Botanic Gardens in Palm Springs, I didn't buy any of his stuff because most of it looked like tender plants that wouldn't even have a slight chance here.

Mary, nice Echeverias. They're pretty much impossible to identify so maybe that wasn't a fair question. Still it will be interesting to see how long they hold out.

So far we've had no wind and only a dusting of snow, and it's down to 31F which isn't so bad............. yet.

It's coming. No new snow overnight. Temp dropped from 32 at 6 AM to 28 at 8:30. Snowing hard with traffic problems in Portland and moving north....now in Vancouver....will probably hit us here in north Clark Co WA in about an hour or so. jwww

Six sinches of snow here - it snowed all night but seems to be stopping, finally. I also have a tree fern (3 years old) that I planted last March. I put a wire cage around the sides and filled it with bracken and mulched around the bottom with bark mulch and put bracken on top. That may not be enough, it's pretty cold. I do hope it survives - it was so beautiful. Good luck to everybody's tender and semi-tender plants!

Low of 9 predicted in Olympia for tomorrow night. If so, that's about what it will be where I live. I am worried the most about my Eucalyptus parvula. It is a few years old and maybe 20 - 25 feet with a dense canopy. Beautiful tree that I would miss very much. Too big to do much for it I guess.

It snowed 2.5 inches overnight. Now it's above freezing though and the snow showers keep missing us.

Would that 9F be for the cold Olympia airport site? Google is showing 18F for tonight in my town, 20s at night through Wed.

I was in Bellingham yesterday, in time for the nasty winter wind they get up there.

Yes, 9 at the cold Olympia airport - temperatures in SE Oly are usually within 2 or 3 degrees, unfortunately.

We have had about five inches of snow total and boy is my garden flattened! My huge Leptospermum is flattened and the rootball is probably out of the ground for the umteenth time. I always say I'm going to give up on it but every year I prop it back up and re-stake it and it seems to recover quite well. One tough shrub! Right now the temperature reads 28 and the sky is gray like it might snow again. I am most thankful for the snow and wish there was more. The down side I assume is it is keeping the slugs and cutworms warm too! Oh well, can't have everything I guess. Can't wait for the next few days to be over! Cheers

We had more slugs per square inch than anyplace on earth, but a possum came and devoured them! We gave the possum a big banana for a thank-you. Maybe you can lure a hungry possum to your yard.

Although opossums may be considered desirable as game animals, certain individuals may be a nuisance near homes where they may get into garbage, bird feeders, or pet food. They may also destroy poultry, game birds, and their nests

Here is a link that might be useful: Opossum Control and Management Information

On the San Juan Islands here, and surprised we got through the weekend with electricity intact. Strong winds, maybe two inches of snow, low 20s. Winter came with a bang!

The San Juans are mapped in USDA Zone 8. For the mapping to be wrong and you to actually be in USDA 7 you would have to have average annual minimum temperatures there of between 0 and 10 degrees F.

If you used a zip code based zone finder whenever I have tried one it incorrectly put me in USDA Zone 7.

The average annual minimum temperature ranges used by the USDA to represent each USDA Hardiness Zone are frequently misunderstood to indicate the absolute minimum temperatures. They do not. Having an occasional low temperature between 0 and 10 degrees F. does not demonstrate that a site falls within USDA Hardiness Zone 7.

Two words that make me cringe: offshore flow. (Summer or winter.) Next Sunday we'll probably get freezing rain while the onshore flow dukes it out with the offshore flow. Wondering what I should replace my garrya with ... since I think they will be toast after this wind gets done with them. Should have known better than to plant them where I did. Well, actually, I did know better; mild winters suckered me.

I would guess that the San Juan Islands contain microclimates including all USDA zones from 7b - 9a.

Last January I almost got trapped up on Mt. Constitution because of a snowstorm while I was up there. I barely made it back down. The road was being closed as I drove out. It definitely has a different climate than down by the beaches.....at least in January.

There is a tendency at this latitude, in western WA for the mountain climate to start at about 1000' elevation. I doubt perriz5 lives up high, on a mountain.

This is only our second winter here, so I'm not sure what to expect. I've heard different zones from people on the island. We're at 6oo ft., and I know some places in the valleys freeze first. The south side and coast areas do stay warmer. Being from Indy (where the z5 came from) I'm used to cold weather, but it was 19 last night plus wind chill. Botann, how scary to be almost trapped. Coming down Mt. C makes me nervous even in summer!

On TV for the past few days they've been showing Bellingham at 1F when adjusted for wind chill. In the San Juans you will also be in the path of the Fraser Outflow.

"Having an occasional low temperature between 0 and 10 degrees F. does not demonstrate that a site falls within USDA Hardiness Zone 7".

True. But I guess the important point is how one defines "occasional". This is the real problem with the USDA system. For example, a hypothetical location that records a morning low temperature of +1 F every day in winter, but never goes below zero, would technically be zone 7. But few zone 7 plants could probably withstand that kind of persistent cold. Similarly, my location in coastal Massachusetts is technically zone 7, because we almost never drop below 0 (maybe once every 10 years or so). But I don't claim that zone. It would imply that I can grow the same plants as northern Alabama or Mississippi, which I can't. While those areas in the zone 7 deep south may have 1 or 2 very cold winter mornings (0-10 F) before rapidly recovering back to normal mild conditions, our area experiences numerous outbreaks of cold, windy, sunny weather throughout the winter, usually with no snow cover. What we need is a system that incorporates the frequency and duration of low temperatures including the affect of wind and snow cover. One clear calm and cold morning with no wind and a temperature of -5 F (radiational cooling) maybe far less damaging to marginal evergreens than a temperature of +10 with strong gusty winds for a few days. Given the current cold snap in your area, I would be interested to learn how your more marginal plants (zone 8 or 9) cope with what looks to be a long duration cold spell.

Calling a plant "a Zone _ plant", without explanation/definition is an example of what I am talking about. What is "a Zone _ plant", in a particular context? Commercial sources make statements like "Hardy to USDA Zone 8, 10 to 20 degrees F". "Hardy to USDA Zone 8" and "Hardy to 10 to 20 degrees F" are two different things. 10 to 20 degrees F. is not the coldest it gets here, it is the average annual minimum temperature for USDA 8. And I think they used only a 15 year window as a basis for that average range to make the 1990 USDA map - the same year we had "the coldest winter in 30 years" here. Did they include those record lows from 1990 in the USDA map? I don't know.

There are web pages talking about the forthcoming wonderful new USDA hardiness zone system based on multiple inputs that is supposed to be very accurate. Last thing I saw about this was a claim that the Bush administration's censoring of information supporting the occurrence of global warming had interfered with the new map being finished and put out.

My low this morning was 22, then today we got up to 28 for a high. So I had a zone 9a morning and a zone 9b afternoon.

Just trying to be useless. 8^)

Yes, to rely on the AVERAGE annual minimum temperature implies that 50% of the years experience a low temperature that is below the range indicated by the hardiness zone designation. And I would say that is more than an occasional excursion into more extreme conditions that could jeopardize plant survivability if the goal is to have a healthy garden over a long term. But then again, pushing the limits on what should grow in our backyards is half the fun for some of us.

Burrrrr, it's 15 degrees on the thermometer by the house! I imagine it's even colder on the lowest part of the garden in the shade the woods.
Does anyone out there have a Stachyurus salicifolius, if so how long have you had it and has it survived weather like this? I saw a huge one at the Bloedel Reserve this summer but I consider that area the Puget Sound tropics. I have three small ones I planted last spring. I love this plant but can't find any consistant info on it!

I believe 50% of the time would be more frequent than expected. Here we are often above 10 to 20 degrees F. the entire winter. It's just a matter of how the numbers come out. When we get a killer here it may be 5 degrees F. or lower. What matters in plant selection is what the lowest temperature expected for your site is and how low you think the candidate for your garden can go in your climate (summer warmth or lack of it has an effect on the achievement of the full level of hardiness of some hot climate adapted plants). It only takes a few hours below the minimum to cause damage.

Zonal Denial experimenters and other enthusiasts may not care if something freezes out after years of apparent success, the 5, 10 or 15 plus years they got out of it actually being considered instead a victory. The less passionate on the other hand may feel quite burned themselves if their shrub gets burned. That would be why choosing plants rated a USDA Hardiness Zone lower than yours has been recommended. Which takes us back to the problem of what, exactly different sources mean when assigning a USDA Zone to a plant - and if they are even making an accurate assignment anyway. Better to keep reading up on the plant until you (hopefully) arrive at a likely minimum temperature for it rather than trying to make overly precise use of the very loosely applied zoning system.

An important point is that wild species may be raised from seed and vary in hardiness, unlike horticultural clones. A good example is the gums (Eucalyptus), these may vary over a rather broad range even among closely related seedlings. Other kinds of plants may come from a wide altitudinal range in the wild, with some forms being tender and others hardy - all within the same species.

This place in Virginia thinks it's quite hardy, calls it prettier than S. praecox. Another site rates it Zone 8. The 2002 edition of the Hillier manual does not mark it as requiring shelter, but notes that it is less effective in bloom than S. praecox. D. Hinkley says on his online blog (via Monrovia nursery) that it is his favorite of the genus.

Here is a link that might be useful: Rare Unusual Shrubs and Trees: S at Lazy S'S Farm

Thanks bboy, Yes they do seem to feel it's quite hardy! I have bookmarked that site. It is because of Dan I came to know of this shrub. I first saw it at McCombs Nursery in Sequim in a small garden he designed. I had read the Monrovia blog too. I like the plant for its foliar effect so flowers aren't as important.

Being east Asian it may be hardier in the hot summer climate of Virginia than here. I think the site I glanced at designating it Zone 8 was northern European. It is often even cooler and duller there than here, with hot climate plants that may be at least OK in the open here requiring a warm wall there to be truly worthwhile.

So far, 16 degrees low in my yard. About 5" snow. Forecast is for snow tomorrow, then ice, then snow, snow on Thursday, snow on Sunday. When we planted at the end of December 2005, the next day it was 11 degrees in my yard and that freeze lasted 3 weeks. I was amazed anything survived. Most everything did but had huge freeze cracks. We had planted in lots of warm horse manure and it hadn't rained. This time, when I saw the forecast, I watered thoroughly to protect the roots and the plants from freeze-drying. Things look mighty shriveled up out there today, praying they all make it through this prolonged cold spell. Hope the freezing rain doesn't icicle things up too heavily.

E-e-e-e-k!

I hope you're not planting in warm manure, as in back-filling planting holes with it.

No! No! No!

Not now, Bboy, in Dec05. Didn't know nuttin and took the advice of a bunch of supposed "master gardeners." Have since learned a lot on this forum. Today all my Eucs look pretty good, praying they hold up, lots more cold weather forecast. All the clematis has turned brown and crispy except the Armandii.

Today they say we're getting an ice sandwich --> snow, freezing rain, rain, snow, then below-freezing temps. May turn the area into a big skating rink. Will school open before Christmas? Stay tuned ...

nothing but rain so far here in the Seattle area. boring

Well, I checked my G/H today and the smell of rotting, frozen vegetation is not nice. I think a lot of it is superficial so I buried the trunks in the pots with wood shavings and turned the fan heater up a notch. I have some brugmangia potted up for the winter -- but I also have cuttings in the basement. I am quite philosophical about the winter survival of my tropicals -- just hope they make it through.

Here in north Clark County we finally have a deep snow blanket (6 or 7 inches). The temperature right now is the warmest since Sat. at 33 degrees on my back porch. Not supposed to dip so low tonight....only around 27...a heat wave but then drop again with an 11 degree estimate and more snow a few days out. Spring will be interesting. jwww

Over a foot of snow out here north of Monroe and still snowing! I am wondering how long some of my tender shrubs can be covered up and still survive....it is going to be very interesting!!

Hardly any snow left in my yard in Oregon City. Sprinkled rain all night. Plants look OK. Evergreens have not turned winterburn brown yet. Forecast is for more snow. Hoping for just lots of rain and no more below-freezing temps. School is back in session across the street for the 1st time this week, today on Thursday.

snow, ice and more-yikes I hope this isn't normal :P

Probably nearly everyone posting here they are in USDA 7 is actually in 8. Temperatures posted would certainly point to that. The USDA Hardiness Zones aren't as finely cut as the Sunset Climate Zones. Being in a colder area than the major cities on the water doesn't automatically project you into the next lowest USDA zone.

If you compare the Sunset and USDA maps for the most part

Sunset 4,5 = USDA 8

USDA 7 corresponds to (part of) Sunset 1A - Coldest mountain and intermountain areas throughout the contiguous states and southern British Columbia

Here is a link that might be useful: Sunset climate zones: Pacific Northwest - Sunset.com

>Where is everyone on this forum anymore?I was moving toward getting a digital camera just to put pictures of all the different interesting things I see here on this web site - and then they made the announcement that they were claiming rights to all pictures submitted.

For our area, I like the Sunset Zones the best. USDA Zone 8 has a lot of latitude when it comes to weather. When the weatherman says snow above 500 ft. I pay attention. At 750 ft. and quite some distance from the salt water, I have snow
while the streets in Seattle are just wet with rain. I'm still in USDA Zone 8 though.
Here's a picture I took just before noon today from my front door to illustrate this.
{{gwi:1095789}}
It's still snowing rather hard.

I don't worry about the copyright issue. Anybody have any good reason to worry about it? Any examples of a picture being used of yours?

Nice photo Botann! Looks like you could match us for quanity of snow! It's snowing like crazy here too! It's going to be such a mess when it finally melts.

I remember trying to make some changes to my page including my zone but for what ever reason it didn't work. After the third attempt I said the heck with it!

I don't worry about people using any of my photos either. Frankly I would be flattered if someone wanted to but IMO they just aren't that good!

As I understand it they are claiming that any pictures put on this site become their exclusive property. It's not just them making use of your pictures, it's also them saying they don't belong to you anymore.

bboy,
Claiming any photos posted on this site become the sole property of the site is not enforceable, and can not preclude other use by the original poster. Claiming something doesn't make it so, but probably does discourage many people posting images that they would otherwise be willing to share. Gardenweb makes the same claims about anything written, don't they? This doesn't seem to discourage people from posting all that much, and is equally unenforceable. By posting on a public forum, however, it is fair use if someone reposts it elsewhere, but should be credited if the images/writing have the miminimum legalese stating that they belong to the O.P. and require written permission for reuse.

By using the term "non-exclusive" maybe they aren't, in fact claiming you can't use it later yourself. Not being a lawyer, I don't know. I don't remember how it all played out when it was being chewed over two years ago. If they're just saying they get to share use of your images if you put them on their site, well that's different.

By submitting content, which shall include your member name, to any "public area" of the GardenWeb Network, including, but not limited to, the forums and your personal website, exchange page and journal, you grant iVillage a royalty-free, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right (including any moral rights) and license to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, sublicense, assign, derive revenue or other remuneration from, communicate to the public, perform and display the content (in whole or in part) worldwide and/or to incorporate it in other works in any form, media, or technology now known or later developed, for the full term of any Rights that may exist in such content

Here is a link that might be useful: GardenWeb - Terms of Service

Bump topic - interesting discussion zone 7 vs. 8.

Botann -- we have similar weather being further east & higher up than the sound (or should I say Salish Sea)

Located near Black Diamond with elevation over 500ft.

More wind, rain, forest cover, & lower lows give us a microclimate 5-10 cooler than my parents' home 15 minutes west/ 8 miles away and certainly colder than what is reported for Seattle (usually 5-10 degrees colder). Our seasons are delayed nearly 2 weeks in comparison.

Perhaps, I'm wrong in thinking I'm 7b when our zone is 8a. Probably doesn't matter much. Or does it?

Most people in western WA are in USDA 8, USDA 7 is more consistently colder. Sunset Climate Zones are better for us, have a look at those. As it happens in our area the USDA and Sunset zones pretty much line up, with USDA 8 = Sunset 5 and USDA 7 = Sunset 4.

Sunset differentiates Sunset 4 more on how often it gets cold than how cold it gets.

It sounds like you've changed your tune a bit since Fri, Dec 19, 08 at 16:22.

I found a web site that makes it possible to do one's own calculations based on the minimum temperatures every winter to come up with a true and accurate USDA zone. I'll share some of those results soon. It might not clear a lot up though since there's a major absence of weather stations in the Puget Sound area where people actually live.

I remembered that wrong, there's a general tendency for USDA 8b to line up - more or less - with Sunset 5 and for USDA 8a to correspond to Sunset 4.

Where they diverge markedly I see that as the USDA mapping being off.

Sometimes way off.