I'm hoping that someone with more expertise than me answers this, because I would like some ideas about the problem.

I have some sprawling minis along the south edge of my garden, used as edging in a mixed bed, where they are interspersed with heath. It looks fine, but I rarely see that border since it faces my neighbor's house and is fairly far back from the street.

I also have some (recently id'ed, thank you!) small upright conifers, Chamaecyparis lawsoniana Blue Gem and Elwoods Pillar in a mixed bed and am a total loss as far as how to use them effectively. They are currently being swamped by nearby deciduous shrubs and perennials, and I need to move them soon to a more suitable spot. Now I've fallen for a Cham. pisifera 'Filifera Aurea' and have to admit that after many turns around the yard with the shovel and the plant in hand I'm totally stumped as far as where this might look good.

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It IS funny that the realm of conifer gardens is so much a male dominated one, and I think you're right that it has to do with the lack of flowers. Nothing frilly about those beds.

Last year I bought two Pinus sylvestris Albyn's Prostate pines from Forest Farm. Little guys. I planted them to give some green in the winter for contrast with the grasses. They were planted at the edge of a big planting bed and I plopped in some perennials that would be easy to move when the pines grew up.

The pines look like this now, or would if you could see them both.

One of them is sort of visible - it seems happy enough there for now, but hardly a commanding landscape feature. The groundcover there is a failure anyway, and I'm going to revise it.

The second one is swamped by mums, sedums and asters. Take my word for it - there's a pine in there. The white wood aster planted itself there - the pine would probably be a little more visible without it. I left it there because I like it with the early mum (Red Daisy).

I don't want to move anything now because the winter winds are nasty there - I'll wait and see how they look when the perennials die down, and probably clear out the space a bit in the spring.

Claire

OMG Claire,
I hit the floor laughing when I read Take my word for it - there's a pine in there. as that is what most of my conifers look like!! What are your thoughts for working your two Pinus sylvestris Albyn's Prostate (a real beauty by the way) into your garden next year?
Nan,
Your Cham. pisifera 'Filifera Aurea' is going to add some great color to your winter garden. are you thinking of having planting it somewhere near your blue conical conifers?

KT:

I want to leave them where they are - in the grand scheme I think they'll look very good in the winter there when they grow up (at least to a 3 to 4 ft spread). I'll have to gradually remove the sedums, mums and asters, and maybe a peony, and beat back or move a couple of big roses. I'd like to find a transition plant to encircle the pines. Maybe something like Artemisia Powis Castle, blue-green frothy foliage. Unfortunately, I've had miserable luck with Powis Castle - it grows beautifully for a year or two then everything dies out. A. Silver Mound might work.

I also have an invisible Ilex Blue Maid that's being enveloped by asters and Shasta daisies. I'm stubborn about the location since it's part of a circle of hollies that are planned to grow up just as the big old winterberry dies back.

Isn't there an old saying something like "The real garden is what happens when you planned something else."

Claire

Or I might add some rocks to the garden around the pines since I have stones as an edging. That way the pines could be in a rock puddle at the edge of the garden. Maybe add some ajuga which might go well with conifers.

I'm beginning to see a network of stones with conifers embedded, meandering through the garden ...

Claire

Here's to girls and conifer beds! And I am a girly-girl.

I recently needed an idea for a new bed next to a new walkway and I came up with idea of a mini-conifer garden. Ironically earlier this year I was noting that the nearby foundation beds very colorful and busy. So I thought this new area should be a little more subdued. This is a definite work in progress. These babies have a lot of growing to do (I hope) and I expect I will incorporate some perennials as time goes on

I was going to do a mass of one thing, but I am not that disciplined. (which is why everything I do looks too busy!)

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I am still looking for bigger stones.

>"The real garden is what happens when you planned something else."

I like that! (Like "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans" - John Lennon wrote that.)

My garden is certainly nothing like the plans I've made over the years. Someday I'll have a look at all those plans and see if there's anything other than the general sizes and locations of the beds, if anything actually happened "on the ground" that was part of the plan.

The silly tag on my 'gold mop' Chamy claims it's going to reach 6' - not at all what I had in mind. Maybe that's the real problem with conifers in mixed beds - so hard to plan for their eventual size because they're so darn small when we plant them, by comparison, and grow so slowly. Most deciduous shrubs are more accommodating that way.

girly girl aka Wendyb,
I have been staring at your photo wanting to recreate what you have done by having a small rock garden oasis that doesn't appear to be fighting with its surroundings...bravo.
and I expect I will incorporate some perennials as time goes on Oh no don't start sliding down the slippery perennial slope!!!
dtd,
The silly tag on my 'gold mop' Chamy claims it's going to reach 6' - not at all what I had in mind.
I have already experienced the sobbering reality than the conifer tags are not always reliable as it isn't all that unusual for some of these sweet little darlings to revert. I wound up paying a hefty sum to have a reverted 'birds nest' fir transplanted to a larger border, not at all what I had in mind. kt

They grow slowly, but inexorably. Just how do you plan for something that starts out taking up maybe 1 sq ft, 5 years later will take up 2 sq ft, 5 years after that, 4 sq ft, 5 years after that 6 sq ft? Without using normal filler perennials because they will distort the shape?

It strikes me that conifer gardening is a mostly male pursuit not only because of the lack of flowers, but also because of the presence of some fairly strict rules.

I dutifully plunked 3 low growing types of evergreens into the area surrounding Sanitary Ridge (the raised septic system) several years ago (about 10 yrs. now, I think). I also added an unmarked Chamaecyparis obtusa that was on super sale and about 18"H at the time. I knew that was a calculated risk, there being every chance it was not the "dwarf" variety (still not entirely sure!). I had no idea what I was doing and simply began planting around them.

I very much like the Chamaecyparis obtusa and am watching it like a hawk watches Mourning Doves; it's about 4' tall and if I'm going to move it I have to make the decision in the next year/two/three. The shape and color of the foliage pleases me; I like the soft, rounded look of it but am thinking it may be the big variety and would benefit from having its site "tweaked" to a more northerly location where it won't tend to overwhelm/shadow other plant material.

I love the Juniperus squamata "Blue Star" and blind luck is credited for its location. It's now pushing 3-4' across, is about 15-18" high and provides the silvery, "blue" foliage to which I'm so very partial. It was teeny when I planted it and I HAVE to dig and replant the delightful mini Narcissus I planted within the 24" radius lo those many years ago. I love that it's there all seasons, though it definitely takes a "backseat" when the surrounding perennials come up and do their thing. It shines in the late fall, snowless winters (not wholly uncommon here), and especially in the early spring.

I planted Juniperus horizontalis, "Blue Rug" in an awkward corner of the Sanitary Ridge lawn to soften the sharp corner of the railroad tie retaining wall we installed to level the "hump" of the raised septic system. It's grown wonderfully and now cascades over the ugly "wall" in a handsome blue/grey way. BUT, I was not careful about edging the lawn and the grass has happily overtaken the area under the juniper and I'm going to have to declare war on the invader. Grass sprouting through a groundcover juniper RUINS the elegance of the effect! I've failed in weeding and will resort to multiple layers of sodden newspaper to suffocate the grass. I've been edging with vengeance all season. Again, blind luck in siting the plant, but failure to address encroachment has diminished the initial success.

In a neighboring island bed I planted Juniperus procumbens to very good effect. I am delighted by the cascading nature of the plant and I adore the silvery green color and the texture of it. But again, I planted bulbs well outside the perimeter of it and time has shown that my spacing was all wrong. Live and learn! It will be no fun to dig the bulbs out and move them, but it's not impossible. I will be very careful because I frequently find the black salamanders with yellow spots living under it. :)

I am working on a new planting and want to use the groundcover evergreens there, too. I will pay more attention to long term spacing and will suffer the necessity of mulching with layers of newspaper and mulch over it for a few years. I know now that mixing perennials and low growing/creeping evergreens is a great combination but the key is to give them room to grow and then STAY ON TOP of transplanting the perennials/bulbs. I've also learned that the use of mulch around them shows them to very pretty effect, giving them an air of importance even when they're sort of puny and silly looking. I haven't really ventured into the realm of using nice statuary to highlight them, either.

Fun discussion!

Reading people's posts and thinking about it - a major problem is how to make the planting look good NOW and still make sense in a few years when the conifer has grown (and continues to grow). Without letting yourself in for massive digging and replanting - or weeding.

Planting in a vast field of mulch has always bothered me, too much like the sparse commercial landscaping so prevalent around here. And telling myself it will look great in ten years doesn't help the vista now.

I keep coming back to stones, which can be removed easily when necessary, but still give a reasonable distance from the surrounding plantings.

I'm thinking along the lines of loose patio type paving - I'm very fond of bluestone myself.

This is a photo of a section of my bluestone path. Picture it with a dwarf conifer in the center, perennials on the outside, and some small groundcover like thyme filling in the cracks. As the conifer grows, you could just remove the inner circle of pavers to give growing space, yet the perennials still have to keep their distance. Weeding shouldn't be a big issue.

As far as bulbs are concerned, I have a lot of muscari around my pines - I was hoping they could stay and just peep through the pine branches (Albyn's Prostrate is very loose growing). I don't know yet whether that will work.

Claire

Re-reading my post, I didn't mean to say that mulch around a conifer looks bad - only that a landscape that has much more mulch than plants is not to my taste.

I hope no-one was offended.

Claire

Thanks for some very interesting thoughts, chelone reminded me that not all ground cover conifers will keep an area shaded enough to deter weeds, and how important it is to stay on top of that. Claire I think you are on to something I can definitely envision a conifer planted amongst your stones, I particularly like the idea of the stone work being tied to your paths.
One thing we have yet to discuss regarding dwarf conifers and their eventual size is the act of pruning. Adrian Bloom in "Gardening with Conifers" has this to say about pruning conifers; But the fact is not all conifers improve with age. They can become open and unbalanced, or they may just get too big. With almost every conifer there will come a time to prune, for shape or simply to keep it to a reasonable size. Those with smaller gardens need to be prepared to prune as soon as need be. Mr Bloom continues on with specific information relating to pruning but Tracy DiSabato-Aust who feels "Dwarf or slow growing conifers are normally the best conifers for the mixed garden." has some good technical advice about pruning conifers in "The Well-Designed Mixed Garden" , in which she suggests "when the conifer gets to one foot or so of the desirable size, it is best to cut back the new growth so that about 1 inch of it is left. This will cause side branches to form and create a dense plant". I myself the pruning phobic have over the years been pruning my Juniperus squamata "Blue Star", and Pinus mugo (removing candles), with great success but I suppose the time has come that I bite the bullet and attack a few chamaecyparis as the best looking specimen of C. nana I have ever seen was pruned from a young age.

Thank you for a great discussion. I am getting ready to delve into the world of dwarf conifers and all of your thoughts and ideas will be very helpful.

I am a reactionary pruner, myself. I have to look at something for a pretty long time before deciding to take the pruners to it, but once my mind is made up I will definitely "go for it"!

The Juniperus horizontalis "Blue Rug", the one that is undermined by unchecked grass is definitely due for a "haircut". The branches have cascaded over the RR tie wall to good effect, but they're too long and need to be cut back and shorter branches need to be redirected and clipped to produce denser cover. It's my hope that in conjunction with smothering layers of wet newspaper this new tack will put an end to the grass. These shots are not very good at demonstrating the effect of the grass on the "Blue Rug", but they're all I have right now.

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I will try to get some better shots and add one/two that show the site with edgeing and more attention to weeding.

Recently dtd and I visited the Massachusetts Horticultural headquarters at Elm Bank Reservation during the one year anniversary celebration of the "Bressingham garden."
The installation of this perennial demonstration garden was one of the largest installations (1.01 acres) accomplished in one day with the help of countless volunteers. The purpose of this garden is to display to the New England community varying plants that could work well in the typically small residential garden.
Our visit to Elm Bank was a first for me so my expectations of a perennial garden designed by Adrian Bloom I fully expected to have been limited to perennials with a few annuals filling in some holes, regardless of Mr. Blooms notoriety in the world of conifers. I was however pleasantly surprised to see what I would consider a mixed border with many conifers, and deciduous shrubs, now that I am thinking back I dont recall seeing many evergreen shrubs(perhaps if anyone else remembers they can let us know).
Immediately we noticed a different use of low growing plants in the garden, rather than limited to edging between the front of the garden and the path, or encircled around the conifers, low growing plants were used for different purposes and in ways far more creative than I have ever seen. Adrian Blooms affection for Geranium Rozanne was very apparent and might even surpass arbo_retums passion for this flower, but of course this is just one of over one hundred plants he has introduced that are still being sold world wide (Achillea Moonshine , Crocosmia Lucifer, and Astilbe Sprite, ect). Bloom used G Rozanne to tie together the entire 1.01 acre garden by using this plant to create what he called rivers to flow in and around one bed twisting, turning, and spilling into the next. The Elm Bank garden is not the only garden that he has used G. Rozanne to create a river Adrian also completed a garden with a 130 ft run of G . Rozanne in Bad Zwischenahn, Germany. The effect even after just one year of growth caused the visitors eye to follow the river of Rozanne throughout each section of the garden. This path of low growing plants flowing through taller perennials, conifers, and grasses creatively permitted the visitor to appreciate the deep and rolling garden beds much in the same way a garden path cutting through a bed would open the vista. This technique of using low growing plants to open up vistas within the garden bed is certainly a creative way to allow conifers the elbow room (even if only on one side) they might need to shine. Would you consider planting a river in your garden?

Sorry about the lousy camera/phone photo but take my word for it "Adrian Bloom" is adorable

After one year of growth the garden is beginning to shine

I was too busy guzzling down the free wine to snap many photos and unfortunately this section on the garden suffered from irrigation problems but if you take note dry or not the river of G.Rozanne survived and really thrived elsewhere under irrigation.

Thanks for the photos, Katy! Your description of the garden is right on the mark too (also of Bloom, as 'adorable' - I can't think of a better word for him).

During the Q/A period, someone asked if he intended people to enter the beds, which are too wide for anyone to see the plants near the center from the main path. He said he'd consider adding secondary paths of stepping stones to allow dedicated gardeners to get close to all the plants, but that he thought most people would be satisfied sticking to the main paths as they've been laid out. I have to admit, I was very tempted to get in there and check some tags on plants I couldn't get near, and only stopped myself because I didn't want to be evicted from the garden tour.

I was just cleaning up the garden and I have to say removing some of the overgrown foliage has been refreshing and I am once again reminded that removing something from the garden can be as important and powerful as adding something. I noticed that all three of my yellow conifers suffered from winter burn this year, then ran to my current conifer bible Gardening With Conifers by Adrian Bloom, where he has a lot to say about yellow conifers, first in terms of design less is more you really want to be careful not to add too many yellows in any one vista and secondly siting is very important to avoid burn you want to protect yellow conifers particularly when young. Early autumn frosts when the leaves are still soft, and late spring frosts, can do equal damage to some gold or variegated forms; spring frosts can also catch soft new shoots as they burst from their buds in mid-late spring. But these are dangers faced by all plants; careful placing should ensure a minimum of damage except in unusually severe years. Plant tender or brightly foliaged young plants behind taller plants, fences or screens so that they do not catch the early morning sun-this usually does the most damage by striking the leaves that are still wet or frozen. I am just wondering what yellow conifers do you have, what have you planted with them, and how are they sited? kt

I enjoy cleanup too. Still planting and moving stuff around though.

appears I am breaking the golden rules..

I put a gold mop Chameacyparis in the same view -- diagonally in front of Picea orientalis 'skylands'. Skylands is too close to a Japanese Umbrella pine (in 10 years) so I really ought to rearrange that stuff now while it is still feasible. They've been in a few years.

I haven't seen any winter damage to anything golden yet, but this year I put a dwarf golden yew in my dry sun border. That might be interesting. I think it is protected enough from winter winds, but not necessarily sun. will see. Faces southwest with trees behind it.

Here is early last years pic of my gold on gold. I think its all much bigger now. The variegated dogwood doesn't look good to me with the golds either in that picture. May have to move that. The hosta has since been removed.

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Wendy,
I agree it is probably a good time to move your Picea orientalis 'skylands', my umbrlla pine has reached the age of rapid growth and rapid it is. But don't move it too far the reverse depth of color tone with variation in texture is a real WINNER!!! Like your Chameacyparis as well as a matter of fact I have never seen a Chameacyparis that I didn't like. kt