Larry,
I stopped by by bosses garage and serviced it on the way home. It hasn't been used a lot but is still close to 30 years old. They started the engine but is ran a little rough due to the carb being dry for so long. We adjusted the carb a little, changed engine crankcase oil and checked the oil in the chain drive crankcase. The CDC oil level was good and the oil look good. I will change it this week anyway. I tilled about 30 ft after I unloaded it. It may take a while to learn the best way to operate it but it tills great. In real soft ground the bicycle wheels sink some. It will till as deep as you want. You just move it forward when you reach the desired depth like you would with a Mantis,ect. It works great to work the ends and tight spots hard to get to with my Troy Bilt Horse model. Also a lot lighter and easier to handle. I can lift it in and out of the back of my 3/4 ton Chevy pu. It is still heavy enough it doesn't bounce around. I will be able to give a better report later. I should have the manuals before long so will be able to see what all it uses. The Tecumseh engine seems to be in good shape. I had one owner tell me that I would get rid of my Mantis like he did after I bought it. I will wait to get rid of my Mantis. It is just a y/o and used very little. I will post more after I use it some. Jay

Jay, I thought I had written a reply earlier today but cant find it. Anyway, I am glad you got the tiller and think you will be happy with it.

My horse has a HH70 Tecumseh engine that is a little over 31 years old and still runs well but will use a little oil.

I expect you will say goodbye to your Mantis. I think they are a good tool but no way can they have the life of the Troy Bilt.

I expect to keep my Mantis but it is of little use in the garden. I plan on the Mantis helping me maintain my drainage ditches.

Larry,
I can already tell I'm going to use the C+ more than I ever did the Mantis. It took a while to work the ends with the Mantis. I can probably works 30 ft 6 inches deep with the C+ while I might be able to get 5-6 feet with the Mantis. When your ends are 60 plus feet wide that makes a difference. I may use the Mantis some to cultivate around crops. I will have to see how the C+ does first. If I don't need it too cultivate I will probably find it a new home. It might have 2 hours on it so basically brand new. The good thing like you said about the C+ is you can buy most of what you need to fix it if needed at a bearing house or a parts store. It is built to work on. The small tillers are limited in what you can do to them. My horse originally had a 6 hp Tecumseh I believe but the original owner had just installed a new 6.5 hp engine on it and had never tilled with it. He passed away and I bought it at his estate auction. So now have 2 Troy Bilt tillers and a TB chipper/shredder. All auction buys. And none had been used much when I bought them. Jay

Larry,
Just an update on the cultivator/tiller. I tilled 7 65 ft long passes with it today in the area I'm going to set up WOW's and plant tomatoes. I'm in love with it. I can tell I will use it more than the Horse or the Mantis. It would work great in raised beds. It will just eat itself down to as deep as you want to go so one pass is all you need. I till in 2-3 inches of shredded leaves. I had worked the straw mulch from last season is pretty well with the JD tiller. On the ends where I can't get with the JD tiller and not very well with the horse I was able to till it as deep as the rest. I ran it for probably and hour and a half and it never missed a beat. It will save me lots of work in the garden. I think it will work great for cultivating. I just won't go as deep and will be able to go faster than using the Mantis. I wish I had found one years ago. I wonder why they never caught on when they made them. Jay

Jay, I think it is wonderful that you have the C+. I would only guess at why there were not more of them made. (1) it does not have the standard tiller look. (2) at that time people were not high on chain drives, viewed them as weak. (3) They had to compete with much cheaper tillers. (4) OSHA was becoming strong at that time and if a guard had to be installed on it it would cut down on its usefulness. (5) The drive companies had to build in no more quality than was needed to convince the first time buyer to purchase an item. (6) lower demand on gardening tools at that time.

I could be wrong on all accounts, but my personal opinion is that if you have a good gardening tool that you can keep getting new rebuild parts for, there is no need to upgrade until God redesigns dirt.

I had a small tiller many years ago that was very compact and easy to use, but it got loaned and never made its way back home. It was made in the 50's and had a 2.5 HP 4 stroke engine on it. I think I could still buy "off the shelf" parts for it if I had it.

Larry

Larry I imagine you are fairly close with your reasons. It was a good idea a few years too early. The other thing about the older units is they were better built and had better and more metal on them. I was at an auction recently and they sold an older JD lawn edger. It has a 3 hp engine. I was surprised when I bought it for $12.00. When I went to remove it from the trailer was surprised at how heavy it was. All metal in it. My stepdad who was a JD parts person for 30 plus years remembers selling them and couldn't believe how cheap it sold for. Brought it home put a little gas in it and it fired up. Still need to service it and then it will be ready to use. Many don't realize the quality of the older products. And just like this edger it still runs very good. I bought an early lawn mower from the 50's I believe a few years ago. Was made in KS. It still runs and works better than any weed eater or modern mower for knocking down the large weeds that get ahead of a person. And like you've stated I can buy any part I need for any of them at a local parts or bearing store. This mower has been around close to 60 years and still better than the new ones. It wouldn't satisfy OSHA by any means but for what I use it for very good. So as you can see I have a collection of older lawn/garden equipment I use to do my work. Jay

Jay,

You're in love with your tiller? Oh no. I can see where this is headed. Love and marriage and a baby carriage and lots of little Troy Bilt C+ tillers running around scaring the cats and the tomato plants.

I thought our Tomato King collected tomato seeds. Now I see he collects farming/gardening equipment as well.

Dawn

Dawn,
I guess I've learned from my experiences over the years. When I went to work with my current employer 37 plus years ago I was one of a wave of youngsters they were hiring. There were those with 30 plus years and those with 5 and under and no one in between. One of the older gentlemen I learned a lot of my trade from told me several times. As you get older you learn to slow down and work wiser. Then you don't redo as much. I'm not sure about the wiser part but I have slowed down. I used to question why we would pay extra sometimes a lot for a part. He always said you pay for quality. Most of the older gardeners around here in the 70's and 80's had Troy Bilt tillers. I used to think they were overpriced and bought the cheaper models. Now after I've spent many times the cost of a Troy Bilt in the 70's on cheaper models I have a 77 model Horse that is still going. As with most of those older companies when they were sold to larger companies and corporations the quality went down. I'm an auction junkie but don't go as often anymore. Only when there is something I feel I can use and can't live without. But have saved many dollars buying at auctions. The part that never ceases to amaze me it those who buy these nice pieces of equipment and then they set for years and maybe use them once or twice. It is obvious after this year the Tomato Queens have out distanced me. LOL. To sum it up as I get older I guess I get lazier and believe in letting a machine doing some work for me. Although I only tilled the leaves, additives and mulch in4-6 inches. Then as I set each WOW or bucket I'll take my all iron spading fork and loosen the soil in the area 10-12 inches down. I don't plan on adding anything to the holes this year as I plant. The tests show I don't need to. I will add something later. Jay

Jay, please be kind to your little Mantis and let her down easy. She may be very jealous to learn that you have a new love. You know that I am in love with my Mantis, but if I had a garden that was a large as you, Dorothy, and Dawn plant, I might need a big tiller AND a tractor. I'm just a backyard gardener and my Mantis is just right for me.

I didn't till much of my garden this year because I really didn't need to, but Al used my Mantis to work up a raised bed that we have been trying to 'fix'. He dug the potato trenches with it, and worked in some compost along a trellis where I later planted peas. Since he is home more now, he has been a big help. Gardening is really not his thing, so I don't push it. We planted five tomato plants this morning, and I have ten holes ready for this afternoon. I am just waiting for a surge of energy. LOL

We sat down in some lawn chairs, under the tree, and Al asked me how many tomatoes I thought I "needed to plant". What kind of question is 'needed to plant'? I guess I should have said, small, medium, large, determinate, indeterminate, patio, hanging, red, black, green, yellow, gold, pink, etc. So many to try and so little time (and space). It's a good thing I don't have a farm.